Well, for what reason someone should reclear normal, heroic and mythic raids every week when not having the chance of getting a max. ilvl piece of gear?
In Legion I cleared all difficulties per week because of TF, now I’m not even doing heroic anymore because the chances for TF are so damn low compared to Legion.
I personally would like to see TF from Legion ingame again.
And legendaries ![:frowning:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
Considering this is also something that would hit me because I dont do hardcore content, I wouldnt call this being pandered too, if anything I’m asking for my own efforts to count for something again
I disagree, I’m hardly geared and already done with most of the content that rewards Gear in this game
Why is the +10 cap unreasonable however? Hell you could even
As for why it is unreasonable;
If you continued my comment, how is it fair that raidfinder Gear can be better then normal? Or how normal can be better then heroic? Is that fair? (With +20 it still could so no 20 is too high imo, also you kind of skipped over it but this was kind of the whole point of my arguement)
not really their choice though.
over the years blizzard overcomplicated both raiding and dungeons to the point where a lot of people simply said “pass” and cba to do them .
face it most people do not play this game to be chalenged only to have fun easy few hours and then log off.
this is the crowd who in past was perfecly happy with just spaming hc dungeons for VP gear . they never wanted anything more and never will want - because thats not what they look for in games.
its sad that you cannot acknoledge their choices from the bubble that you play in .
also they dont get best gear - best gear is 415-425 - and they are getting 395 itlv so 20-30 itlv lower then you .
because it requires skills that 95% of playerbase simply dont have and never will have.
now if there would be some changes made - for example if people could opt in for +10 without raising their keys and if it was made as non-timed dungeon making possible to CC stuff in there and do slow progress then 10-20% more players would do it
hell it could become real attractive content for casual guild - with people taking 2-3 hours but eventually clearing that dungeons
but as it is now a time atack with risk of lowering your key ? ye no people just say pass as time atacks are atrocius to people who enjoy rpg elements -
stuff like multiple CC and carefull pulls got eradicated from there “because we wont make it in time so lets pull 3 packs and aoe them down” - its an abomination in eyes of people who enjoy RPGs
But Blizzard don’t care, they know better what we want/need.
I have no issues with the current state of keys, I meant a titanforge cap of +10 itemlevels
It’s all been on the table since the PTR announcement of this stupid system, you didn’t present anything new.
The whole idea is moronic but the saddest part of its implementation is that the highest content in the game can’t even reward a simple TF ![:smiley:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
It always caps at +10 ilvl. Half the time top 5 ilvl people in the world are pure M+ farmers with 1-2 M bosses progress. Hilarious stuff.
They ARE worth something. If you don’t view it as such, why do you feel an entire system has to change to accommodate that mindset?
You’re not done by a long shot. I checked your gear and you can earn rewards all over the game.
The important part here is CAN. It’s not guaranteed. It’s not a given. Hell, it doesn’t happen often even. So yeah, that very small chance is fair imo.
With +20 it could not proc higher than the final boss of the next difficulty. Imo that is fair. Then there is gear (all the stuff on that boss’s loottable) that is only rewarded by doing the actual content. The rest CAN be earned somewhere else, but only if you’re very very very very very lucky.
+20 is 5 ilvl higher than the next difficulty. Not so sure that is ‘fair’. I do not care about what is ‘fair’. I care about what is fun for my personal gear progress. So I dislike it.
Yet I am the judge of my own experience and if I claim something isnt worth it too me, there exists no abstract reality where it actually is worth something to me and what it is worth to other people is a dead statement to use against me in the context of this arguement so again, I have to disagree
Because it was the birth of this system that got us here on the first place from my vieuwpoint and moving forward with this system will turn the game into one that isnt even worth playing it without a subscription again from my perspective
Yes I am, I really, really am, every form of content I just want to exit 5 mins in, something that was just for island expeditions at the start, the whole gearing system has for me ruined all aspects of the game tied into the current gearing system I’m honestly only here for the RP and Social aspect anymore
Why put effort into something? There’ll be an emmisary or a weekly Quest or a titanforge that will waste the effort on a later point
Then we simply disagree on this on a fundamental level, because to me it shouldn’t be possible at all, some power up or ilvl bonus sure, but not to the point where it overtakes the baseline reward of more difficult content
Too bad then. 
You want it to remain like it is? +20 is a better alternative for you, I’d say. But be stubborn. I don’t care man, I already have it MY way. I’m willing to get it LESS my way, but you won’t budge.
Sounds like you need a break from the game man. It doesn’t sound like you actually want to play. So why force yourself? This is a game. For fun. To relax. To enjoy yourself.
Well yeah, then we fundimentally disagree.
I don’t like my charater advancement being limited just because of the type of content I enjoy. So I love this system.
I do want to play, badly, that’s why I’m still around. I simply do not partake in anything tied into the current gearing system because I don’t like the current gearing system, the result is that I simply stopped all progress in the current expac.
I’m fine doing old content for mobs, farming up professions for alts, gathering gold and again, the social aspect of a really fun guild and RP with that guild and people on my server
Its just that the actual game itself isn’t fun and no amount of pause from the game will fix that.
I can relate to that a lot only for me it crept out into nearly all other aspects of the game, but do you enjoy it being up to random procs like titanforges? you don’t like the socket procs we already went over that (which is fairly reasonable imo)
If it’s the group content you do not feel for then wouldn’t it be a better fix all if there was scaleable difficulty solo content through which progression was accessable? (this is me shamefully assuming you’re more of a solo player based on what you said, feel free to correct)
Would you rather not see an expansion of the content you do enjoy in sense of difficulty and rewards that are inherent and fair to that difficulty rather then be forced behind a carrot on a stick that is the bi-monthly ilvl boost or random titanforges?
I’ll agree that BfA has several systems in place that aren’t fun, but to me that has nothing to do with gearing.
Enjoy is the wrong term for that. I don’t mind it. I don’t chase after it.
If it happens it’s a cool moment.
It’s not that I personally don’t like the sockets, I really don’t care either way. But I understand from progression gearing and such that sockets throw it all out of whack. Just like huge ilvl increases; hence I am very willing to concede sockets and limit the ilvl proc max. Because even though it doesn’t bother me personally, there ARE people bothered by it.
What I’m NOT willing to do is give up on the whole system or make it basically useless just to make other people happy. I have a right to be happy too. I’ll make concessions, but I won’t bend over and just let others try and take everything from me.
If there’s a good alternative; fine. But there’s not (maybe some day).
No I would not. I don’t want difficulty. It’s not what I think is fun.
It’s not how and why I enjoy the game.
Replied on my old main and didn’t want to make things confusing so remade the comment on this char
Your answers are reasonable but there’s one thing that sticks out and creates a lot of curiosity for me
Isn’t this the same as wanting progression without challenge? isn’t progression without challenge in the context of this game just collecting things?
what content do you enjoy if you don’t mind me asking?
Not trying to debate this time, just curious
Well, it’s not like Im opposed to work for rewards. But for instance the old fashioned ‘wipe and learn’ tactic I hate that. I truly, utterly hate it.
I’ve done the mage tower. I’ve done solo dungeon or raid achievements for legacy content that weren’t easy. I’ve done the solo mythic HoV hunter run for the tame, when it was current content.
But I dislike the notion of; here’s some content. Here’s the same content but more difficult. That type of thing makes ZERO sense to me; if I’ve done the content, I’m not going to do it in a more difficult way, why on earth would I?!
Then there’s ‘difficulty’ in things such as really harsh (rep) grinds and such. I don’t mind those either.
So, I’m not opposed to difficulty perse. Just to certain types of difficulty.
I enjoy Questing. Exploration. Puzzle solving. Grinding. Content with story.
Dungeons I enjoy to a degree, but I don’t like repeating them over and over.
Same with raids (on LFR).
The biggest problem with the loot system is players grinding for gear endlessly for failing the luck system. As a shadow priest using gear 30 I levels lower for better stats is a reality. Getting bad azerite traits is a reality. Without a point system being unlucky will hold you back. Nice to know spiteful apparitions is 10 % of my dps. The 7k Titan residuum is way too high to expect to have the sets farmed before the next patch where it will all be nerfed for new gear.
I’ve done it once, do a reward in the hope of a titanforge
It didn’t happen, made me feel silly and I’ve never targeted items that are only upgrades in case of a titanforge
Actually it’s Blizzard that allowed us to get gear beyond the content level we play at.
You didn’t get to decide that at all.
It’s a design choice they made I’m not in favor of either.
way back when, it was rare to see a player decked out in heroic level gear not do the dps/healing that went along with it. making it relatively easy to guess a players capability.
However given I’ve seen players doing 10k dps while having 410ilvl and that’s not a one off either being handed better gear than the player is capable of using isn’t helping anyone either.
I don’t raid mythic, so I really shouldn’t be able to get gear at that level and certainly not above it.
the same applies to everyone at their given tier of difficulty, warforging for example can help bridge the gap between normal and heroic and heroic and mythic, but it shouldn’t leap above them.
Obviously that’s my opinion on how the design should be.