Yeah because Blizzard is changing how various things work in the game all the time, that doesn’t however mean that they should be removed, if they work as intended for the good part of the community.
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I don’t. I really don’t. But noone needs(!) BiS items.
World First raiders had itemlevel below mine for most of the progression and I think even at Jaina they where not consistently above 410.
Nobody needs those, however having some goal to work towards is enticing.
I was never a fan of high score games, because they have no clear cut goal, even if you get better, there is no upper border you get.
I am happy with setting my goals (+10 on every dungeon, AOTC in raid tiers I am actively raiding), but I am a little upset that there is no goal to set in terms of gearing, while previous iterations of WoW gear progression had this (I was very happy how I saw some slots maxed out in Cataclysm and doing it again when firelands released - I was not heroic raiding, I was only doing normal, but normal had a goal and it was not hoping for .05% chance to roll up to heroic level).
What is the level they play?
Would I have baseline BiS items in every slot? - I think so.
Would it be incredibly stupid to forfeit all the upgrades I very likely get? - I would think so.
A guild mate got the Harlan dice rolled up to 420 with a gem slot. Will this be replaced, probably not. Is this something she aimed for, certainly not. This was a “Uhh, nice!” moment, nothing exciting she would work towards.
I and many people I know miss this working towards gear improvement. I equip better gear, when I get it and it is a short moment of enjoyment, after I simmed it and it told me, that the 410 item I just got is 2% better than the 405 with my preffered secondaries I had before. But currently the only thing I do for my gear progression is the weekly +10, because I get Titanresiduum and I know i get a 415 item that will improve my gear. This excites me, to see I am close to my next piece and I will have both my primary and my secondary spec equipped with 415 gear.
If you can give me a reasonable goal for other slots, I would be happy, I just don’t see it. 405 BiS may be slightly worse than 410 random forged, but worse than 415 and getting my BiS at 405 might be as likely as getting anything in that slot upgraded to 415. I probably won’t get either on 425 with socket and certainly don’t need those, but it would be nice to know “the next 6 weeks, this is the best I can get, I can focus on other slots now”.
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Honstly, i’ll go ahead and say that’s because that part of the community doesn’t know better.
It’s annoying for anyone doing content where gear is a main component for progregressing further as the tangible reward from it never feels too rewarding when it doesn’t randomly proc.
It also puts a further emphasis on simming everything when you randomly get a piece that’s 10 - 15 ilvl higher than your current one but with way worse secondary stats. Along with azerite pieces this creates a less fun gearing experience for anyone looking to maximise.
If i can’t create a BiS list for my preferred content (be that PvE or PvP) and not have it invalidated by randomly proccing pieces then i honestly can say that gearing in itself isn’t fun to me.
I’d much rather play with a MoP/WoD PvP gearing system than the current horrid one the developers insist on using. Why? Because i can see which pieces i want to buy first and follow that gearing path. Same thing back when i properly raided in TBC and early WotLK. I’d make a list of pre-raid items i wanted to get and then see which raid items i really wanted to replace those.
These days i can do neither of those things and it’s frustrating to randomly get 420+ pieces from a world quest or emissary that doesn’t feel like i did anyting meaningful to obtain. It ruins the RPG gearing feel of the game and turns it into too much of a gamble.
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You’re Right, Everything Someone Posts Are Their Own Opinions. Yet I Haven’t Met Anyone Say “I Enjoy The TF System”.
But You Mention Who Decides Who Gets What. Do You Honestly Believe Someone Who Saves Some Turtles For 30s Should Be Rewarded With A 425 Item Which Is Potentially Far Superior To Something That Can Drop From Mythic Jaina? Personally I Think It’s Ludicrous That People Still Defend The TF System And Its Major Flaws.
There are people in this topic who like it. Just saying.
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You don’t HAVE to. You’re being obsessive about it yourself.
Anyway, I think the Azerite armor system is a whole lot less clear.
Hi.
I enjoy the TF system.
And this is exactly why TF is enticing. 
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There Comes A Point In The Level Of Content You Can Do Where The TF System Flaws Are Visible. Playing LFR And WQs Aren’t Challenging And Yet The Flaws Aren’t Visible From This Tier On Content.
If You Raided Mythic And Fought A Boss For Hours And Hours On End To Get That 1 Item, You Deserve That Item To Be THE Best In The Game? For Completing The Hardest Content The Game Has To Offer. But It’s Trivialised By The Incompetence Of The System.
It’s Clear From This Thread, That People Who Like The System Do Not Raid Mythic At All, Yet I Agree That A System Where It Keeps Players Playing Is Necessary For Aspects Of The Game This Can Be Done Still Through The Use Of The WF System. I Just Think It’s Crazy That For Spending HOURS Killing A Boss To Have Someone Loot Something Better From Killing A 200K HP WQ Mob.
I would humbly ask you to use capitals only at the start of a sentence, because this is, I am afraid, totally hurting my eyes because of readability. ![:zipper_mouth_face:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/zipper_mouth_face.png?v=6" ":zipper_mouth_face:")
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FFS sort your capitalization of your posts out - unreadable garbage as is.
It’s not. You ARE getting the best gear in the game. 99% of the time.
There’s that 1% chance that someone somewhere, who you probably don’t even know nor will ever see, gets something just as nice or maybe nicer for doing some other content. SO. FRICKIN’. WHAT.
Agreed; yes it is necessary. And no, WF doesn’t do that adequately.
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You are getting upset because you see the concept of the gearing in a different way than I do.
I like the thought of the constant progression for my character in the content I do, and don’t like to end up early in the tier at the point at which there is nothing to look forward for me when it comes to the gear progression. For me gearing progression is the system in which I look to get my character at the level to play the most optimally at the content I do and not in hunting some single specific items in the game. If I get them its fine, if I don’t but have good enough gear to play as I want its fine for me again and achieve the real goals in the game which are in an content progression itself while the gear is just an tool to achieve that.
She worked to gear herself the best she can, and sure while she didn’t aimed for that item to drop it was equally exciting for her that she got it as an upgrade for the slot in which she didn’t had better one equipped when it did dropped.
For the raiders in the game a lot of the azerite pieces from the BOD raid are currently BIS btw and for the m+ players to if they get enough of the titan residuum to get them from the vendor so the part of that type of the progression which you are describing still exist in the game and the titanforging didn’t removed it.
At the heroic level of play your goal should be to aim for the other slots at the highest items when it comes to the il with the stats you need. And in most cases that’s the way how optimal gearing works. Getting sometimes higher item which is less good for you can happen but than that can just be the case of not good enough stat optimization in the game and it doesn’t necessarily need to have anything to do with titanforging.
Have you met Tahra?
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What are you looking forward to? I am already done for weeks. WF/TF is not changing that 
It only made the road faster actually.
Well I’m happy every single time when I get an item which is an upgrade for me and it doesn’t need to be BIS. When it comes to the content, there is always something, people want to push themselves higher in the m+ or the raiding.
Nah, I am 413. The content I do rewards 400. Totally done for a long time.
You might be, but I’m still not there, still have plenty of the things to catch.
Seems like we have a wildly different taste.
However I would be really glad if you would not take one line of my post completely out of context (at least let people know at first glance that those are maxed BiS items).
If you read my previous posts in this thread, you will notice, that I am opposed to having full BiS items likely in any season.
But yes, we have a very different approach since I prefer the previous methods, where you could set clear goals (there where many items that where fine while you went for your specific BiS) and be able to get it in some slots, vs. the constant progression we currently have.
In both scenarios I have constant progression throughout a season (or a raid tier previously), as full BiS is next to impossible. But in one case there are milestones I am really happy, when I reach them and in the other case, there are many minor improvements, but never something I can enjoy for a longer time.
That’s the issue I have.
You are not describing a goal, you are describing the process of gearing (something I already do).
I sim for info on raw performance, I keep some slightly worse items in case stat distribution does hit my playstyle while the simulation might show improvement.
This is nothing that really excites me. It is something I do just for my performance.
And while I did change gear out of performance reason previously, getting a BiS item (I knew I would not have to swap out until the next tier) was really exciting to me.
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Well sorry to hear that, I have seen those drops.
I’m not saying it would be easy and I’m certainly not saying it can be done in days or even weeks.
But it could be done, because that is the max Titanforge available from Mythic 0.