While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of your post, I would like to say that as far as I know Rogmasha being alive was found out from metagaming (do correct me if I’m wrong), which is not your fault at all, but just another unfortunate example of what you talked about in your post.
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Ah, I apologise about that! we had been told in character that a hand of conquest member had shouted that she was alive and that if any Frozen Paw members where sighted that violence was to be expected I had asked in raid instance if it was meta’d and if I could use it, prior to that our initial thought process was “No body only a bloody tabard, she’s probably a prisoner somewhere and this is likely a propaganda stunt to crush the remaining clans that stand with her” Though If the the whole violence is expected thing was Meta’d I’ll have a word with the person and just tell them to make sure that information isn’t Meta’d in future and that it’s something we can use in character, the information I get I’ll double check with you and your Guildies/RG to
Sorry about the unpleasantness my friend!
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not quite sure why there is a lot of huffing and puffing about ‘bad rebel’ players. as a long time horde player and a good friend to some of the players who feel like theres some grudge against them im not sure why there is surprise at how people react.
is it bad faith to meta game and jump ahead to conclusions? yeah sure there is but no more bad faith than what ive heard from my friends from the other side against them. cant expect to try forcekilling characters and not have a backlash against it imo.
and im talking friends who arent even playing ‘rebels’ just bystanders who as much look at the ‘loyalist’ characters weirdly. i mean the other night i watched some guys do a raid or something on the tavern. if people dont want their characters harassed or they dont want whispers trying to egg them on to play along they shouldnt feel pressured into it.
ages ago i remember the korkron rpers doing similar things but never once did they act like these people are now. i remember spending time in one of the korkron secret prisons and each time they were going to do something they pleasantly made sure oocly that it was ok.
gonna go on a limb and say something my mom often says ‘you put a bad seed in the ground you are gonna get a bad harvest’ really unfortunate that its like this but years of bad faith returns the same.
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Like I said I may be wrong and it came out another way, I don’t want to assume your friend was lying, I just know some rogue claimed to of followed and seen Rogmasha imprisoned, even though IC they discreetly teleported to the prison, and was spreading this around IC.
That’s totally reasonable, your chars have good reason to be suspicious IC.
No unpleasantness had from us on your behalf.
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HoC has never killed a Horde player character, ever (at least as far as I am aware). We don’t do force killings. Not only because I’m very much against it, but because just about everyone we’ve met refuses character death.
A very pretty painting, but I remember how bad Kor’kron vs Rebels got, it mostly ended up with the kor’kron players / guilds throwing their arms in the air and giving up, abandoning the scene to greener pastures. There was a lot of metagaming and OOC drama; specifically about communication and consent.
This was something I shouted the next day, when it revealed we got cheesed on and people just revealed it was all a hoax within ten minutes of declaring them dead. We had to change our narrative / story because of that, and roleplay around it; at our expense. There was to be a much more dramatic plot-twist to the whole affair leading up to Rogmasha’s potential prison break instead.
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There was that one goblin who got killed by Chief Piggums, although that was completely consensual as the goblin initiated and emoted it himself.
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Aye, we’ve just been discussing who it could potentially be in our discord, it’s non of the Clan members and I believe it could either be a certain somebody in the Chillzone, Klaus was just telling me the TRP was literally “Black Hood.” An Elf Rogue?
I’m sorry that this has happened to you guys truly any and all information we get regarding stuff in character from now on we’ll likely double check with you just to see if it definitely is something we should know and we’ll be double checking sources for Intel and ensuring they have an In character explanation behind obtaining it, as well as ensuring the players sources are accurate.
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F’s for Piggum the HoC’s accidental executioner.
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Our beloved mascot. RIP.
https://i.gyazo.com/3d78189c77312d19495d3a80878f8a1b.png
Piggum, the sequel. Coming to a prison camp near you
Or we can all be adults about it and understand that one size actually does not fit all and tbh its rather stupid that if you want to explore a certain region of RP you have to conform to random people demanding your chars IC death as a consequence
In this case I’d go for live and let live personally, zealotry taking this form among RPers happens often and its ugly to watch because it leads to both sides antagonizing eachother for no real good reason
The opener of this comment for examplr is technically an OOC snark caused by IC interaction and that’s how quickly stuff like this van escalate and sour things up for all parties
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Typical Sin’dorc poster
Zug’dore zug’na la
I am disappointed. What I see here is not people being anti-Rotgarde nor trying to stir up drama (well, a few are, but they are isolated cases in this thread), but rather trying to establish some form of ground upon which agreements and discussion can be made.
But frankly it’s very discouraging to have genuine replies dismissed upon the typical narcissistic attitude: “I am not at a fault for being myself, others are.”
Because this is, strawmen and ad personam and non sequitur aside, part of the problem. Targeting people themselves and showing off as a victim while covering people in unwarranted insults leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.
I am kind of inclined to see these posts as a threat to a cooperation.
I don’t care about saying “what happened was objectively wrong” because arguably it would be pointless and maybe false, too. Nor I am going on in an anti-RG crusade. All I am saying is: look, a lot of people were uncomfortable with what happened, surely next time people could all use this knowledge to make a collective effort and organize things in such a way that people will be more comfortable with what is going on. No one will ever be 100% comfortable and happy with what is going on, but maybe some more balance ought to occur.
Then again you don’t have to speak with -me- about these things, I am just trying to point at what I believe is the main issue.
I think the next time such an ambush (from either side) is to be expected, having the main leaders contacted via a PM (not the entire group) might be a good compromise: speaking with the organizers - for the next time such an event will happen.
I mean, maybe you’re right. But if I am to judge from this thread, I see very few people trying to establish a genuine ground of discussion when it comes to those who attacked. And these comments come mixed with less pleasant ones, which clearly makes the entire thread a bad place where to speak about this stuff.
edit. I suppose we should just leave it all to the officers and trust in them being efficient and reliable individuals.
You definitely don’t have all the blame. And I’d argue that blaming people is what we should not do in this instance.
But in the end, you have to trust the other party to RP with you in a fair way, otherwise risk is ignoring their enjoyment of the game, for someone else’s sake. It’s about cooperation- maybe you can’t trust everyone, but I’m sure you can trust a few of the organizers to sort things out. Otherwise it all becomes an “I care only about myself”.
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You are a guy who almost exclusively makes long-winded psued posts (usually including a few words that are entirely made up… “demistify?”) disagreeing with myself or whoever is unfortunate enough to be taking my position at the time
Good, you being discouraged is based. Your feedback isn’t valuable because you simply weren’t there / aren’t involved
Members of the guild you are arguing in defense of has posted several times signalling that they’re enjoying the roleplay / don’t have the kind of misgiving you do. They are free to void the entire situation, roleplay an escape or whatever they fancy at any time. Does (for example) Segtillis need your express permission to enjoy this character conflict? Why?
Why are you talking Latin on an English forum? =S
These posts are a show of cooperation between cool roleplayers against a common ill
Absolutely right
That wasn’t the fault of your guys and honestly 100% expected on my part at least. On this server - even though I love it dearly - IC secrets that are revealed OOC quickly become IC knowledge. It only takes one bad actor to begin metagaming to rope any number of otherwise unassuming guys in
I think our workaround with Rogmasha being a hostage now (rather than being presumed dead) is a decent save that stays consistent with the story
FTR this is an excellent reason for minimal OOC contact - sadly not everyone pays courtesy back with courtesy
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Woe, not the horrendous smack talk. Quaint that people see fit to drag my guild into this discussion despite not having had a single comment or hand in it, nor having had any mentions regarding the Stygian Legion in said Discord channel (in spite of what some might all too happily like to try and claim). In fact, we’ve been trying to, quite actively, stay well clear of it because the above discussion only shows how pointless any such involvements would be. Heck, even the Whiteclaw Discord has scarcely seen any “smack talking”, far as I could tell. Claims like these really seem to come out of left field.
The main concerns with most of the Whiteclaws/rebels that I’ve personally seen, seem more so related to the traveling hub plans now being off the table rather than any unwanted RP being strongarmed upon them. And personally, I consider that to be an issue for which the organizer(s) of the traveling hub (in this case, I assume, Rogmasha) to be responsible for rather than any belonging to the Stygian Legion. If capture indeed was a constant risk (which, naturally, it was), then a plan B should have been on the table. Or at the very least someone to take over responsibility of the traveling hub in Rogmasha’s stead. That’s my simple take on it, but judging from the 357 posts that have been committed to the discussion already, I’m sure there’s more to it for some people. But I wouldn’t attribute any malice to entire groups that by no means have any such malicious intent.
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(usually including a few words that are entirely made up… “demistify?”)
That is not a made up word. It means “to make a very complicated topic clearer or make something easier to understand.”
At least do this dwarf a favour and google before lashing out.
Members of the guild you are arguing in defense of has posted several times signalling that they’re enjoying the roleplay / don’t have the kind of misgiving you do.
But here’s the thing, Perroy. This is something that doesn’t seem to get properly addressed at all, or whenever someone mentions it, is seen as a collateral of the “fun of a set group of people.”
Rogmasha made this a public event. She invited people along with advertisement and a post and gave them a very specific idea about what this RP was supposed to be. It was not “a rebellion.” It was not “Garrosh 2.0”. It was not PvPing the Rotgarde or one of it’s allies. It was a spiritual journey. It was a means to escape this kind of RP in Orgrimmar.
And this is where it gets tricky: this is not something The Rotgarde did wrong. This is not something you did wrong, although you surely seem to feel attacked. This has nothing to do with anti-PCU, PCU, you, your guild, hate, metagaming.
People gave their opinion. They are entitled to do that in a forum. Yes, even bystanders will do that. I don’t need to be at a political party conference or it’s member to point out how that one thing might have gone down the wrong way. And I bet that some people who post here, annonymously or not, were part of the caravan.
Coming back to the guild issue: When Rogmasha invited everyone along under a premise, she took in a lot of people relying on her for planning. She herself admitted that the communication could have been…err…better. And I’d agree. She should have communicated the clear intent if this was indeed a rebellion, or communicated that it was not and kicked some members.
If the organizer makes a conscious decision to lead the event into a completely unintended (and in my opinion contrary to the advertised cause) direction without telling the attendents, then it is (in my opinion) a mistake in communication and should be pointed out.
These posts are a show of cooperation between cool roleplayers against a common ill.
No. In fact, they are not. People who disagree with your view about RP are not the common ill. They simply disagree with you.
And that is what they are saying. And rightfully so on a public forum. Rogmasha should have communicated this to the event attendants. She admitted communication about rebellion, this event and things might have not been too good and widely available. That’s cool.
People told you they believe limiting OOC communication for the sake of meta-gaming and risking things like this balances a bit on the “not really optimal” side. You are being rude to people and some PCU members are trying to make this, once again, into an anti-PCU vs. PCU thing.
Not everyone who disagrees with this is anti PCU or slandering anyone. Quite frankly, that is ridiculously paranoid.
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Of course he feels attacked, you idiots, who weren’t even there, are clearly blaming him for something that isn’t his fault. You can pussy-foot around and pretend your trying to be mister Friendly all you want but we can all see you comments are mostly sugar coated in a phony sense friendliness.
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You mean “demystify”
Owned
You’re welcome to post to your hearts content and I am welcome to reply
I like to argue
You just said that everyone is entitled to an opinion and this is mine
people who agree with me: cool
people who don’t agree with me: not cool
I believe otherwise so I guess we’re an an impasse
True and based
Shuffle off, Chrysippus
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I’ve said this multiple times now, but I’ll repeat myself one more time in case it wasn’t clear:
Nobody’s holding you at a gunpoint and telling you to stop RPing or creating your own hubs. If anything, that’s great! Continue to do so?
Unless your argument is that the character of Rogmasha is so essential and cornerstone for the idea IC, or more likely due to the player OOC, none of those excuses hold.
- IC is IC. Just have someone new (or Rogmasha’s alt, if they want) to continue the role. That sounds like some rly interesting RP (new leader stepping up, etc!).
- Nothing’s stopping the organizers from continuing to create these events on an OOC level. Nothing’s stopping people from taking initiative and making events on their own.
Your issue is a non-issue, and therefore I bring forward the argument that your underlying reason is not (unlike you claim) the fact that “Traveling hub RP is off the table” (Despite there being + 40 people RPing in Val’sharah alone yesterday lol), but rather your dispute/ire with the Rotgarde.
I remember very vividly when you came to this Server the first time you arrived- Advertising yourself as a community that’d bring and create RP around it- Only to bubble up after a public event or two, keeping guild interaction to minimum. And hey, that’s fine! Nobody, as said, is holding anybody at a gunpoint and forcing them to RP with one another. That’s great.
But to say that the issue isn’t because you have a distaste for the PCU is just being dishonest- If I have a problem with someone I’m brutally honest about that and make it 100% clear so we can avoid one another or try and resolve it.
If you want to see a change, make that change and be that change, instead of making vagueposting on alts about why you dislike the way we do things- I’ve argued those points back and I remain unconvinced. Not because I’m stubborn to admit I have been in the wrong (plenty of times I’ve done that), but because you’re being disingenuine and fail to argue for your viewpoints.
Do I think that the PCU’s communication is blunt at times? For sure. Do I think that’s a bad thing? Sometimes yeah, sometimes not.
In this case, I don’t see the issue because it’s used to counteract people who are literally waving their hands about an issue they had no part in, despite having been offered the courtesy to argue back and forth the issue beforehand.
Telaryn and I were able to have a completely civil agreement/disagreement on the case here without either of us having to resort to memes/sniping at one another because he didn’t come to the conversation with a loaded gun despite never having been part of the issue.
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