Damn I thought that was a South Park joke.
Damn!
if anything id say legion was more male dominated
- Khadgar
- Illidan
- Guldan
- Valen
- kiljaden
- Tyrallion
- Ferondis
- Genn
- Malfurian
10.Xavius
Whille we had - Sylvannis
- Thylrissa
- Ellasande
- Myla
- Alleria
But despite the flaws of BFa i actually liked Jainas story and it worked really well also finn is a new male character who is smart and isnt made to look stupid by females (though he is comical).
Despite my dislike for the war campain and much of the later story of bfa the ladies have not been written bad they dont appear out of nowhere with power to upstage the male ones many are already well establised characters and those they do appear in the exp are done right (though Ashvane is a wasted potential along with the nightwarrior story)
2 Likes
What potential? She was Scooby Doo-level villain. I suppose the writers could have better shown her grief over losing her husband at Theramore, as well as her friendship with Katherine (since there used to be a âgenuineâ friendship between them before Ashvane went mad), but really, these questing experience villains are sadly never given a lot of chance to shine.
2 Likes
The wasted potential is everything you said plus as a lady who seem to own a large mining guild her macinations as part of the horde (unwillingly) or even her using said assest to bring down the proudmores would have been more intresting than âsuprise im working for Asharaâ
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Gamers truly are the most opressed minority in the world.
First they take they our good narratives. Then, they bring bad ones. Now, they tell that weâre wrong for not liking them!
GAMERS, RISE UP!
6 Likes
Fair enough.
⌠because Sylvanas was there.
One female character defeated the other.
Otherwise we wouldnât have this cinematic:
And this one:
For the Horde players, Sylvanas managed to do what Garrosh (the toxic masculin character) never acomplished.
For the Alliance players, Tyrande show how badass she can be, look at her throwing that Orc head on to the pool and becoming the instrument of vengeance for Elune.
Unlike her Alliance male counterpart Anduin:
⌠because Jaina appeared and because later Aleria showed up.
Two female characters defeating one, but Sylvanas already predicted that and tried to kill everyone in the throne room and Jaina saved everyone.
Because Saurfang âthe weak male characterâ failed to kill Malfurion.
Prior to BfA.
Before BfA, I considered the narrative was a cherry on the cake, that was WoW gameplay.
Now, it is literaly unplayable.
An old woman who needs her daughter help.
Not everyone can be like Sylvanas, Jaina or Tyrande, otherwise it would be too noticeable.
My conclusions comes from forum observation.
How many times female characters, like Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande, Talanji or even Geyaârah, were praised, by the players, for being, strong, in other words: what their faction needed ?
Here is a example, from game that also helps to further push this narrative:
Nathanos: I hope the Warchief Faithâs is well placed.
Zul: She seems very powerful, certain, in control.
Nathanos: It is a honor to serve my Queen.
Zul: My princess is also strong willed and sure of herself our King always found her to be challenging.
How many times male characters, like Anduin, Baine, Saurfang, Thrall, Lorâthemar were considered âweakâ even âtraitorsâ by the players, because this is WARcraft and not PEACEcraft ?
Thatâs exactly my feeling.
Thatâs just my opinion.
Cheers.
5 Likes
Hate progressive regression
Hate Gender debate
Hate inclusive narratives
Love plate-bikini women
Love male protagonists
Simple as
2 Likes
I really think you are taking this hidden agenda accusation too far. Like, Warcraft always had strong female characters since Warcraft 3. That is nothing new. And still the maleâs outnumber the female characters by a margin. Genn, Saurfang, Baine, Anduin, Bwonsamdi, Thrall etc. They arenât even as extreme as other games with those themes. For example dragon age and Witcher series. Apart from some trump voters who think orpression is good, those games make it crucial to the plot to emphatise with orpressed Mages and non human races while making you dislike the orpressors. Blizzard hasnât reached that step yet. Wicher 3 is a prime example of that modern progression, since the actual protagonist is Cirella, not Geralt. Same thing with Divinity 2 original sin. Elfs and lizards trash talk humans for their racism and zealotism against magic alot. Warcraft is just doing baby steps in that story telling so far.
Oh my god. Woman and gays exist. Such awful and bad!!!111 
Fair enough.
As I said, itâs just my opinion.
One thing I know for sure:
The story literaly makes the game unplayable, for me.
This never happened before and I started playing Warcraft as Horde in the original game.
You know:
- Kill a unit and he stays splated on a pool of blood on the floor.
- Raise dead from dead units to serve you as skeletons.
- Summon demons to wipe the enemy units in the battlefield.
- Put a invencible shield on your units that drains all his HP, after that he is dead.
- Use your units as cannon fodder because they canât be healed, only be raised as skeletons.
Cheers.
1 Like
Everyone up to their own opinion. Itâs cool. Tbh I once thought getting my money back since Captain Marvel ripped off my expectations.
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How can you not bring up the biggest game of racism, elder scrolls. Every race seems to think the other is trash in that game (though argonians are 
)
Talking about tropes. A famous woman got the jean Grey treatment which is one of the worst crap females get thrown at in popular culture.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AxCrazy
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaceHeelTurn
Another example Daenerys from game of thrones got hit with this one
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmbitionIsEvil
Yeah I think WoW shouldnât implement moden RL morals to this game. Races are artificial after all and they are set on different cultures.
As A troll I donât give a damn what would human think about troll cultures and belives and neither would want to listen to any moral crap talk for example.
And same goes the other way around I donât think a gnome would get along with a tauren just because Tauren are supposed to be goodspirited.
Heck even within the factions there should be clashes. Just because theyâre part of the same organisation doesnât mean that they see eye to eye and donât have any differences.
8 Likes
Yes, AND later on that same female character failed to do the same thing.
For the Horde players, Sylvanas managed to do what Garrosh (the toxic masculin character) never acomplished.
Except for the fact that he accomplished the same thing.
⌠because Jaina appeared and because later Aleria showed up.
Two female characters defeating one, but Sylvanas already predicted that and tried to kill everyone in the throne room and Jaina saved everyone.
The point is about Sylvanas, who was later on defeated all the same. You can remove Alleria since she fell for the trap too. Jaina did too and only escaped narrowly.
How many times female characters, like Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande, Talanji or even Geyaârah, were praised, by the players, for being, strong, in other words: what their faction needed ?
Itâs almost like people are not a hivemind and there are a lot of players who also praised Varian, Thrall, Volâjin, Greymane, Cairne, or Garrosh.
How many times male characters, like Anduin, Baine, Saurfang, Thrall, Lorâthemar were considered âweakâ even âtraitorsâ by the players, because this is WARcraft and not PEACEcraft ?
Only Baine. He is the only one whoâs considered a traitor. And that has nothing to do with gender. Heâs a traitor who happens to be male. He isnât a traitor because heâs male. He could be a woman and people would still call him a traitor.
Youâre grasping at straws to find an agenda that, for once, isnât there. Gender has nothing to do with the strength or weakness of these characters. NâZoth identifies as male and he could stomp any female character you mentioned. Nathanos is a Gary Stu.
Another example Daenerys from game of thrones got hit with this one
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmbitionIsEvil
The difference, of course, being that Sylvanas was a declared psychopath for 15 years, while Daenerys wasnât.
Excuse me, Robert Baratheon was right???
Fair enough.
How many of those characters are in BfA ?
Thrall and Greymane.
- Thrall is hated by a good portion of the Horde player base for siding with Saurfang and Baine.
- Greymane, his best moment was probably when he decided to side with Tyrande and leave Anduin.
You see the discussion is only about BfA narrative, as I said:
3 female characters clashing in a scenario none was allowed to win or kill the other.
- Write a victory for Jaina and Aleria and Sylvanas will look bad.
- Write a victory for Sylvanas and Jaina and Aleria will look bad.
Very well.
What about Saurfang ?
" Saurfang is a stupid old orc who mumbles about honor while seeking nothing but a warriorâs death for himself. He doesnât care about the victory if it wasnât achieved honorably in his eyes, and heâd lead an army to defeat and his soldiers to their untimely deaths as long as he believes that it was the honorable thing to do.
Saurfang cannot comprehend that âmuh honorâ doesnât win wars. In fact, it has no contribution to victory at all. Baine is also cut from the same cloth, and both Saurfang and him must be killed, preferably at players hand. Much better if they are killed dishonorably such as by being poisoned or stabbed in the back, so that theyâd be deprived from the thing they value most, an honorable death.
Sylvanas, on the other hand, also is far from being my favourite. But if I have to choose between Sylvanas and Saurfang & Baine, Iâd choose Sylvanas any time.
One more for Sylvanas from me. I have characters on both factions."
- Remember this topic ?
âItâs official now - Saurfang is traitorâ
That new cinematic⌠another backstab to the horde pride.
Before - some could assume he will do stuff alone. Now heâs actually teaming up with Alliance
âI hoped you could stop herâ
Yeah. Lets kill him"
- Theres a comment from Erevien:
Cover me surprised. No problems siding against Zappy Boi on all my alts. Screw Saurfang and all his Anduin bootlicking friends. I told you so btw. Gonna replay the Lordaeron Scenario just to grab the Blightthrower another time.
- Thereâs also a comment from you:
âI⌠I do not doubt that our wise King seeks only the best for us, his noble people. But he is too lenient with that animal. Trust an Orc, and you will be served with a knife in your back.â
Now let us try to find a similar character within the female roster from both factions, similar to: Baine or Saurfang.
I canât find anyone, who players would call a traitor and thatâs including both the Alliance and the Horde.
Also. I mentioned:
Being âweakâ, for me, means, doing things people would consider inappropriate for war times, things that probably would go against your factions insterests, hereâs a few examples:
Baine retrieving Derek to Jaina:
Saurfang saying to Anduin: âI hoped that you would stop her.â
Anduin: âI canât.
Not, alone.â
*Opens the prison door.
Again, let us try to find female characters in this type of situation from both factions, I canât find none.
You might point Jaina.
But she only went after Anduin explicitly asked her to go.
Her High King asked her.
Very well, name three badass characters from both sides, in BfA male characters.
Surely you can find them, itâs Alliance+Horde.
I can find three, all female characters, their alignment: evil, neutral or good doesnât come to place:
- Tyrande.
- Jaina.
- Sylvanas.
You named Nathanos, thatâs one, only two remaining.
And by the way that guy is plaged with Sylvanas blind obedience, but I will consider him a badass, not on Varian, GaâNar level for sure.
My opinion as well:
Consider this not a âMy point of view is better than yoursâ because itâs not, I am just interested in reading your opinion as I said before:
Cheers.
1 Like
Forshadowing is still not character development.
He wasnât right. You donât kill a little baby just because she might snap one day. Your âevidenceâ to support that merely being her family name (letâs ignore the fact that only a small fraction of the Targaryens was actually insane).
Fair enough.
How many of those characters are in BfA ?
Thrall and Greymane.Thrall is hated by a good portion of the Horde player base for siding with Saurfang and Baine. Greymane, his best moment was probably when he decided to side with Tyrande and leave Anduin.You see the discussion is only about BfA narrative, as I said:
Convenient. We are just going to ignore the previous expansion which had a lot more male lead characters.
3 female characters clashing in a scenario none was allowed to win or kill the other.
Yes, and the fact that they are females has nothing to do with the outcome, thatâs the point. You assume thereâs an agenda when it could just be coincidence.
Very well, name three badass characters from both sides, in BfA male characters.
Surely you can find them, itâs Alliance+Horde.
Aside from the fact that âbadassâ is a subjective term, here are three characters often aknowledged as badass:
- Nathanos
- Rastakhan
- Tandred
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As I said: the last expansions had no narrative issues for me.
I was playing them.
I canât say the same for BfA.
And by issues I mean: WoT, killing civilians, blighting everything front and center, resurrecting dead enemies, scourge style.
It could and it could not.
Alliance incompetence regarding the attack of Lordaeron.
Where was Aleria and Jaina ?
I guess Anduin and Genn are the only ones to be blamed, for not bringing masks, to the more than predictable, fact that Sylvanas would use Blight.
They needed to be saved from their incompetence by their female counterparts.
Thatâs how I see it.
Glad to see Rastakhan in your list. Thanks.
Too bad he was already replaced, even before BfA started.
Talanji is the one who is looking angry at Jaina in the cover.
Cheers.
Yeah, they had no narrative issues for you because the main characters were Illidan, Khadgar, and Velen.
Where was Aleria and Jaina ?
They were blindly following Anduin into Sylvanasâ trap.
They needed to be saved from their incompetence by their female counterparts.
- They are not their female counterparts. Also Mekkatorque helped with Alleria;
- They were incompetent too (Jaina also fell for that trap);
- You are starting from the assumption that they had an agenda, and failed to prove that.
This is sad. You are usually so much better than this. Your arguments in this topic are very cringey, not going to lie. Youâre seeing an agenda when there isnât one. The entire Alliance is written like fools. Jaina makes Anduinâs same mistake in 8.1.5. At the same time, Anduin had his own badass moment in the cinematic trailer of the expansion. Without even taking into account the fact that the main villain of the expansion is a crazy woman.
1 Like