Nah, BfA was way worse than this.
I’m already done with weekly stuff in one day, stop overreacting to it.
The only grind i hate is the anima and stygia grinds, but the first one is 100% cosmetic and the second is highly optional and there are caps to how much you can farm it, preventing it to turn into Azerite 2.0.
SL ain’t cattering to hardcore playerbase. If it were, then Tjorgast and anima would simply be 100% cosmetic, which they aren’t.
Besides, 1 hour per week of Tjorgast per char seems reasonable.
The question is if this is really what the “community” wants or if it is just the streamer echochamber. Because this expansion really feels like it did cater to those more than ever before.
Ironic that preaches guild disbanded already, because players dont “feel” this expansion.
The quality of an expansion does not revolve around the number of daily/weekly chores you have to do, they seem to do for the BFA-bad crowd but those people shouldn’t be listened to because if you had your way we’d all be raid logging.
The problem in Shadowlands is that both mandatory and optional grinds suck hard, some aren’t even subjective like the WQs which are the worst version we’ve had yet. I understand some people can enjoy Torghast but to me it’s the worst feature they’ve ever made, and made all the worse because I gotta spend 40-60 minutes there every week on all of my 3 alts I’m trying to play.
I was comparatively done with Islands in 30 minutes total per character spread over the whole week, which is a MASSIVE difference to slogging through the content you hate for 30+ minutes at once.
Visions too, if you just wanted the cloak upgrade it was literally a 2 minute run with 5 min of doing the bare minimum Assault stuff for the vial.
To me it isn’t because I hate the content. The weekly amount of mandatory Torghast is longer than all the weekly mandatory BFA chores combined.
I dont think it is.
I think the issue is. this game has taken many Forms. and Appease Multiple types of players throughout its time.
its generated a community Built over time Each individual Player coming to the game for different reasons… and because of that have Different opinopns on what era was the best WoW had.
basically, the game needs to stop changing its systems… and reiterate on the same systems to Improve them instead of throwing ideas in the bin.
Its at a point where its at some point attracted every type of player and now its getting shot in the foot for it.
it needs to stick to One philosphy and Strive to create Upon that philosphy. Let the playuers who disagree with that notion leave and then build the game on t he People who Stay or Join the game for what it offers.
it cannot Survive on being a Turning table which takes it in turns to Appease a crowd of the Audience every 6 months.
theres alot more too it… the problem is When preach talked about em… players ran with the parts they agreed with and went on Riots about it.
so preach Just put it under that title to prevent that going on.
I would be fine with less loot if:
Who said that? XD I find it amusing.
Yes, this was my only real beef with Legion. Otherwise, I loved it to bits. Oh and the relics… Let those burn in hell… Which reminds me… Conduicts are missing from my Why did I unsub list, too.
Agreed, however in legion M+ wasn’t very useful due to the 1 then 2 slot for legos and the 4 slot for tier sets, therefore M+ was pretty much useful only for the diehards seeking some insane titanforging or for those who didnt want to raid yet wanted to do some meaningful challenging content. Due to these circumstances I think M+ worked a lot better than in BfA (too much loot+TF= mandatory) or in SL (low iLvL+less loot).
It’s not the players’ fault that the devs don’t understand how to do that a meaningful way (I’m looking at you, Slice and Dice on Assa Rogues. Just why???) Bringing back old skills from a completely different desing-era is pretty much equal to tragedy. Now, giving back Kingsbane would be a different story…
during BFA it was actually talked about alot. alot said the Openworld content was faceroll and no longer had any point to grouping for.
People wanted a return to a time where u actually did need to group up and socialize in open world… its been quite demanded for a while now tbh.
i’d get it if people were critising choices during the unpruning.
however the feedback wasnt wew just got a ton of threads of “TOO MANY BUTTONS” “ARE CLASSES TOO COMPLICATED NOW” “PLEASE REDUCE HOW MANY BUTTONS WE HAVE”.
people were actively demanding Less abilities.
You only need 2 weeks of torghast on alts to get 210 legendaries, which is more than enough for alt purpose. SL has by far least mandatory grind compared to Legion or BfA. Some wq’s do suck, some are quite fast, luckily you can pick which you want to do and not want to do. The only real downgrade is lack of flighmasters whistle.
i’d agree with you… if Getting ur char even half geared wasnt a massive investmnet of either gold or time.
stopping the whole 4 hours a day investmnet into borrowed power grinds to play alts… doesnt fix anything if ur replacing it with 4 hours a day of Gear grinding to remain relevant.
Aaaaah, I seeeee. I skipped BfA, so… But really… If they want to socialize for content, there are guilds… Or am I doing this wrong? o_O Why would I want to feel like a helpless kid when facing the 62536th recolored version of a boar? 
This is why Legion did that system perfectly and far better than BFA and SL which is impressive from the devs learning from their previous work standpoint.
In Legion, raids were relevant throughout the expansion through tier sets (not the case in BFA and SL), all the content was kept relevant through legendaries which were dropping from everywhere (not the case in SL), there were no external mandatory grinds aside from the content you already want to do since AP was dropping from everywhere (not the case in BFA and SL).
Legion with 3 chesting was as perfect of a system as this version of WoW can be, and it’s actually amazing they got it right the first time and then destroyed it twice in a row. They only need to make targeting Legendaries easier, and buffing the weaker ones so people had incentive to keep getting them even after getting the BiS ones, that and keep 3 chesting - perfect system.
My 3 alts are 185-195 ilvl, have renown caught up, good conduits and i play them maybe 20min a day, i do not think this is big time investment. I just think people are not very good at picking what to do.
i’ve always personally stated WoW never got less Social. the game just got easier to not be social in… but the playerbase Disagree with that statement as far as i can tell.
people seem to beleive a “social game” Should FORCE players to be social to be “successful”… while again i feel if you have to force ur playerbase to engage with a piece of content…its not successful.
in BFA alot of the playerbase who were still here and screeching wanted the changes we got in SL.
Agreed. What really makes me angry about Torghast is that it feels like wasted resources. They could have worked on bug fixes, better balance, better class designs… But no, they streched the team thin for this… thing. Which feels half-finished and not fun for many classes. 
AND it becomes meaningless in 2 weeks. Even Warfronts had a better life cycle.
What mandatory grinds did Legion have aside from major areas of conent that is raiding, M+ and PvP?
well ur alot luckier then i 
i defintly wasnt gearing that fast… not as a PvE Player atleast
M+ Spamming defintly werent generating gear within 20 mins
just sit back and enjoy the show of all the drama on forums then when 9.2.0 comes u buy level 60 boosts for every caracther then ur like yay 50 level 60s without doing anything …
The leggo grind
I just did campaign and upgrade gear with anima, few items from wq/calling and its all done.
This statement resonates with me. I mean, I had a blast in my guilds during Legion and for the limited amount of time while it lasted in SL. If you don’t encounter social activities in this game, that it’s on you and only you. As it says: If you have to force it, it’s probably poopoo.