So that’s why they try to make game 12+ while the stable WoW playerbase is people 25+?
I get this intense feeling that there’s this huge part of Blizzard who loathes the company they were hired into and the people who built it, but liked their games.
They then seem to be surprised when the community, you know those people who also liked these games and consider the developers of them heroes, does not share this loathing and think they are overreacting.
Now… why would we respect that? If they truly do find it hurtful that we liked those old games in all their imperfections and don’t want these people jumping all over them for the sake of their own feelings, then fine. Be hurt. I don’t care.
Now, can we get back to making good games?
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I’m working in IT and whenever a feedback is being made, I do make the changes right away rather than 1 year after launch. They eventually listened but they also said things like “you don’t have the full picture, therefore you can’t judge” or “we’re happy with how the game is” so it kinda means they really didn’t listened.
The underlying issue is that it should not have been implemented at all. If anything, SL should have launched without this crappy useless “feature”.
I do think expansion only systems are killing the game since they’re not enhancing the game on the long term.
I still quite understand why some players would want Ion to be removed or why some players are angry towards devs. I’m not and I thanks them for allowing me playing other games by raid logging.
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This 100%. That’s all we ask from them.
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you thank them for making a game that all you can do in it is raid ? because its not fun doing other things ?
remember when players played this game like crazy ? thats because the game was good. the devs focused on the game and not some political ideologies. they had fun doing this, and we could tell.
i dont want to play a game when all i do is one assignment and then leave. i want the whole package.
I would argue that it is better. But it’s a case of choosing your poison. There’s no utopia here.
But I will argue that if you’ve played WoW for many years and no longer enjoy it, then it’s okay to quit. It’s okay to take those fond memories you’ve had over the years and leave with them.
Sticking around only to get jaded and disgruntled doesn’t seem ideal. And if the only reason you have for sticking around is a feeble hope that some day WoW might change for the better, then I don’t think that is much reason at all.
That part is why dissatisfied players stick around, because it provides them with hope that Blizzard will listen to their feedback.
I think it’s better to just get rid of that so players can evaluate the game for what it is, not the hope of what it might become.
That feeble hope doesn’t seem to do anyone any good anyway.
It’s not my minority and I’m just guessing.
But I would wager that some players think they’re worth a lot to Blizzard. That’s why they’re so forthcoming in their feedback, so to speak. They think Blizzard will ultimately bend over backwards to please them in order to maintain as many subscribers as possible.
And I think that in the past it was true for a while, but I don’t think that’s the reality anymore.
The reality today is probably that some customers are worth more than others. And some customers are worth investing in to maintain, whilst others are not.
That’s an uncomfortable reality, but that’s business.
Maybe someday that will be possible. It does seem as if Blizzard are continuing with that whole Classic expansion experience. If there’s enough demand for Classic MoP, then maybe it will come.
I think they know quite well.
They kind of have to.
They’re not developing the game ad hoc. There’s some planning going on far in advance.
You and I don’t know if there’s going to be a patch 9.3. But Blizzard knows.
You and I don’t know what the conceptual design of the next expansion is. But Blizzard knows. They’re bound to be working on that already.
If a problem is persisting for 5-6 years, then it’s just the normal. Holding out hope that sometime soon it’s going to be solved is silly. If you’re trudging through 5-6 years of frustration in the hope that the future WoW might be better, then it’s not me who’s living under a rock.
So you want the game to fail then.
This is bizarre, considering how just some posts ago and in this post as well you keep talking as if you’re Blizzard’s number 1# fan.
Only in your deluded mind would you consider a persistent problem to be a “Normal” if it’s around for so long.
By this exact logic, having a messy room is no longer a problem if it’s messy for x amount of time. Neither is a moldy pumpkin, even if said pumpkin starts to dissolve into a puddle of mush.
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I want the game to succeed on its own merits and existing value, not be artificially held up by hopes and promises of a better tomorrow.
I am. But being a fan of Blizzard’s games doesn’t mean I’m here to try and trick every schmuck into playing WoW like some cheap car salesman.
If you’re not enjoying it, my advice is to quit it. You can always come back if it changes more to your liking.
Well it’s not me who’s sitting on the forums complaining about “systems” for 3 expansions in a row and hoping it’s just a phase.
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These games are made with one purpose in mind. Player enjoyment. Wow being a subscription game more often than not just wants to waste players time with idiotic systems. Just look at conduits for example. Why add the conduit power? Why make the upgrades you want random instead of targeting the counduit you want? Does any of the stuff make the game better? No it activately makes it worse. Desitions like these are why I have 0 trust in the wow devs.
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What have you been smoking and where can I purchase some.
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Because I’ve paid taxes for raiding once and I don’t wanna play an alt. I used to prior to legion but I just CBA paying taxes on alts again, ie paying archivist tax.
Since legion, the game became a list of asignments to do.
not for me.
in legion i raided (not as much as in tbc and wotlk), but i also did lots of other stuff. i enjoyed the whole package.
I think Blizzard just wants to make money.
And usually player enjoyment correlates with player investment and the more invested players are in the game the more likely they are to spend additional money on it.
That being said, I don’t think every design decision that isn’t popular is therefore automatically a design decisions made because of metrics. That’s a little too conspiratorial and players seem to have developed a recent love for blaming everything on metrics.
Why are Conduit upgrades random? Because of time metrics? Or because it’s an MMORPG and rolling a dice is an RPG staple and a defining trait of the genre? Who knows.
Well I’ll elaborate a bit.
Look at the feedback players gave in BfA.
They didn’t like Island Expeditions.
They didn’t like Warfronts.
They didn’t like Titanforging.
They wanted more choices.
They wanted more “RPG”.
They wanted fewer plotlines.
They wanted PvP vendors.
And so on.
So what is Shadowlands?
All of that.
Blizzard takes all of that feedback and turns it into an expansion.
Because if they show you the promise of something you’ve asked for, then you’ll buy it.
That’s a much safer path than making an expansion based on their own ideas and vision.
And now in Shadowlands everyone is complaining about how all progress and choice is temporary and everything gets reset and how the game is missing more permanent progression that you get to keep.
So what will the selling point of the next expansion be?
Gee, I wonder what… 
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The whole package contained too much taxes IMHO.
not sure what you mean with taxes
A mess that they’ve spent a year going back on their original decisions, which were bad decisions and they were -told- this in the alpha and beta phases by everyone who played it. Every 9.1.5 change is based on beta feedback, re: covenants, torghast, etc
You’re making a very poor case that the game is designed around player feedback when this is the first patch in the past four or, five expansions where changes have been made directly in response to player feedback.
After the player population nosedived because of an atrocious 9 month content drought, public controversy and more successful competitors. If this is what it takes for Blizzard to listen to it’s own customers then I have to wonder if they’ve ever listened in the first place.
You mean 9.0 Shadowlands? That was their own idea and vision. And it had less content than MoP’s content drought. It had less content than Warlords of Draenor’s launch patch.
If their own ideas and vision = bare bones skeleton of an expansion, then maybe they should listen to player feedback more, not less.
Steady on, we’ve not even made it to the halfway point of the expansion that they’re desperately trying to fix, it’s far too soon to be talking about a new expansion that will also be a broken mess despite overwhelming player feedback about the flaws, that they will ignore.
I meant that ap is a fun tax, ie if I want to raid then I need to pay the ap tax, which pushed me away from playing alts.
The problem is when they don’t know themselves which is what it feels like sometimes.
i never felt any kind of “alt remorse” or something like that.
but on the other, im a one character guy. and even with my max strongest alts, i never expected them to be powerful. i believe the cost of being an alt is being weak.
My point exactly.
When Blizzard just chases player feedback all the time, then they end up ping-ponging between A and B for as long as the players change opinion – which is forever.
Best example I can think of is PvP vendors.
Since the dawn of WoW there were PvP vendors.
Then players decided that they didn’t really like that whole gearing part of PvP. They wanted it to be about skill. So they started providing feedback that Blizzard should make gearing easier and simpler. So Blizzard did. And eventually the feedback amounted to getting rid of gear in PvP completely in the pursuit of eSport. That was Legion. Then the players decided they didn’t like Legion PvP without any gear, so now they wanted gearing back into the game! So now in Shadowlands we have PvP gearing again, based on player feedback. The same PvP gearing that was previously removed…based on player feedback.
This is a stupid design process. It’s absolutely ridiculous. And the only reason it is this way is because Blizzard don’t assert authority over their own game. They leave it to players to decide how it should be based on feedback, rather than saying what kind of game WoW is based on their vision and design intent and then leave it at that.
The constant change is a byproduct of always trying to accommodate player feedback, even if the feedback is A and then B and then A again and then B again and then… Blizzard will rather do that than just assert authority and dictate that it’s A and that’s how it is. If players say B they’ll change it to be that. And if players say A afterward, then they’ll change it back to A.
And the whole reason why Blizzard does this (instead of trusting their own professional ability to develop a video game) is of course because lots of unhappy players stick around because this gives them hope. The knowledge that Blizzard are actually willing to change anything about the game based on player feedback is the hope that keeps even the most unsatisfied player subscribed to the game, because it’s the hope that it can change to their liking.
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