in his mind downfall is that you need to repeat the key for example
if you have 20 BH on tyrannical and you go in…you fail first boss people leave you have 20 key because it didn’t downgrade and you will go again 20 key etc
Logically speaking, players like me would constantly degrade keys because of not getting higher rating.
That’s a bad idea. The current rating system is fine. The timers are simply not adjusted on higher keys because +20 and onwards is exclusively reserved for the top elite of PvE and only the top 10% play there regularly.
Mirror it onto a PvP ladder system. Imagine you would lose ranking because you reached your best possible regular play level and you will prevent to drop out of it only by playing better than you possibly can.
People would quit over this. Same with M+.
At some point people would be stuck at +2 as key drops because their rating isn’t dropping with them, preventing them from getting key upgrades.
The reason why people were doing that was because in the past getting +3 would give you 3 pieces of loot. Which is why it used to be called three chesting, two chesting etc…
In other words, you are leaving out context to the story which is really important, i also saw puny make this argument, it’s blatantly disregards what was actually happening.
But to humor your argument, if someone keeps resetting because they want the “perfect” Key where nothing goes wrong at all, guess what, you don’t have to participate into that.
Or you want me to believe that if no deplete was a thing, this would always happen? Give me a break, it’s not even half believable, most people will be fine with a +1/2, +3 is just the cherry on top.
Maybe at the really high end like 22 and up you will see that kind of stuff, but guess what, the reason why that happens is because at that point making one too many mistakes will mean a deplete, so might as well reset. You are already playing at the top of the top, so why are you complaining about mechanics that only happen at that level of content because it’s required to finish the key in time? That’s what you signed up to dude! It’s kinda like complaining that mythic raiding requires lots of wipes to get that perfect pull. Yea, that’s called mythic raiding.
And if you don’t like that, guess what, run your own keys and make the rules. Right now if you are the leader, you are basically gambling your time and effort, while the people you invited have nothing to lose aside some time.
I will give a suggestion to everyone in favor of the deplete, run your own keys regularly, you will change your mind pretty damn quick.
Your right tho. You expect people to play perfectly don’t pug
It’s not about perfect playing.
From a performance point of view they were actually above average.
If only we had a vendor to drop keys for us
Isn’t it?? People leave when mistakes happen
Yea, a small mistake that was easily rectified in the middle of a pull with most adds already dead.
Is this the hill you wanna die on?
A trick people told me is to start the key alone, walk out of instance and manually reset the instance via the character frame. Takes a few starts but you can degrade that way.
There’s literally a panda by the portals that drops the key. Thought my sarcasm was obvious
Wasn’t that vendor doing it only once per week or season? I tried to lower it in SL more often but they didn’t allowed me to do so.
I’ve drop many keys multiple times
Then idk. Maybe I encountered a bug in SL that prevented me from doing so.
Maybe it was different in sl
while be true, this will also basically mean if its ur key, drop the group continously, til u get one who can carry hard which is the nature of the issue his idea rises, if i get a +20 and need that +20 timed, i can simply quit my groups in return to a +20 key
even in reasonable discussion regarding how this worked, this would snowball hard into a extremely degenerate meta realistically.
the reason it was decided depletion with retained rewards, was to give players motivation to complete a key timed or not, while to reverse things would incentivize basically leave upon a whiff of a untimed key.
that is true, but why downgrade a key, if u can spam it without punishment til a group manages to carry you, u only need a premade or something to rock up for a trinket drop or whatever and garunteed timing it really.
and thus is the issue.
it promotes degenerative play, instead of the logical concepts of dropping keys, the reason u drop keys, is to avoid depletion to maximise the chances of successfully completing the key.
if u remove the NEED to avoid depletion, players wont downgrade keys.
Actually the timers feel pretty good this season. They’re very lenient compared to last season and for some of the Shadowlands dungeons (DoS).
You do know Necrotic Wake was during Shadowlands, not legion. In Shadowlands you were using the same m+ keysystem as of today. So I am not sure why you would I think I mentioned that system in particular.
You don’t try to get a 1/2/3 loot rewards from the chest (or chests), you are pushing for score/rating. That is why you hammered your head on that key over and over, to get that bonus score. That is the gameplay loop today - to get score, not gear. You get the gear, to get the score. Not the other way around.
I have no idea where you come from with all these legion era system references - it is no longer that era. I am not sure what 100 arguments you got going, but I am talking about the system as it is, not legion or legion+. So let me explain it again:
In current system - you fail a key, it gets lowered, taking it down a peg and closer towards a place where you can finish it without the ‘perfect’ run. You could get the perfect run, but you wont be forced to farm the same key over and over, to get it.
In your system, the key will not be lowered and adjusted, you will just keep… hammering your head at it till you get the perfect run. You start becoming degenerate in the min/max you will do to get it done. It becomes a pixelperfect timed experience - fail at one thing in 40 min, well, you go again at the exact same task.
That bumps into my 2nd point, time a m+ run takes. It is not a boss fight - you are not supposed to do it over and over, it is not how the content is created to be experienced or consumed in its current iteration. You are not supposed to grind this down as you would do a 10min boss fight. This is what you would’ve to do in non-deplete system.
As I played the actual non-deplete system, it was bad - real bad. More than that, it was awful and the burnout was dangerous in how fast it built. I don’t want that, trust me - you don’t want that either. It doesn’t matter if you got to grind a 10, 20, 30 or 40. It frikkin sucks donkey nuts. You don’t want that rot in your gameplay experience. You do believe so, perhaps. But you really do not want it if think about it and you understand what it entails.
Finally, on this topic as you clearly are unhinged. If you really believe I don’t do my own keys regulary, you are so out there that you can probably touch the moon with your hand. While I dont understand the path of your aggression, I guess you feel a lack of control. I am sorry you feel this, yet - come on, attempted lowball attacks on my standing is beneath you. I am just a player taking part of the system like you; difference is - I game it, you apparently fall apart within it.
Your post doesn’t make any sense, just because you wrote this. It’s not really fair to give opinions on timers, where you’re throwing 20s in the mix, is it?
On a 20, and you’re saying that the timers are harsh. And we’re talking VP, which has one of the ‘tightest’ timers in S2.
I agree depletion shouldn’t exist, but nor should the key progress if it does not meet the timer. Also comparing Andys and pros is a longshot, especially when you’re talking about 20s. I’m not defending Blizzard by any means, but with over 15 years of experience of playing this game, and with playing every M+ seasons since the feature’s release, I have a pretty good feeling of how things stand. It’s almost impossible to fail a key from 10-15 bracket in this season. Hell, I even had wipes in 20s and I managed to score all the portals, that’s how easy and lenient the season is. If you would be comparing dungeons like Azure Vault and Halls of Valor from the previous season, I would have your back, but now in S2, you really can’t blame anyone, but the person in the mirror if you’re bricking keys and not metting the timers.
It is not the panda IN the dungeon.
It is the one standing in front of the portals in Valdrakken.
The one you see in the dungeon is to swap your key to a different dungeon.
I don’t think infinite retries is the solution. Just make a key able to have like 3 strikes. That’s enough to remove a moron but not have to redo the key for a week.