Titanforging is here to stay

Community General Discussion
121

Right, but aside from the top 1% of the playerbase there is always something to strive for. Titanforging doesn’t change that.

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122

What comes to mind imidiately is the Heroes 3 paraphrase:
“Week 125
Titanforging is going to stay.
Kingdoms population decreases.”

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123

I don’t think that makes sense either.

That does not justify adding more of such systems though

124

Well, it’s a slightly bigger chance of getting gear upgrades. Which is probably the single biggest (and thus most fun) way to advance your character.
Every little bit helps to keep people playing.

125

This is the attitude I meant, there must be a difference and not just in mogs or an achievement. After an anchievement you repeat said content for gear (aka if anybody can TF to it… what’s the point), mog and/or mount. You wanna progress you chars beyond Il 350 or 355 (when TF gets capped) go jump into normal. Btw this is also slippery slope, now you get all 385-400 from LFR and you were lucky with titanforging now you have no reason to do it anymore nor you can improve your char. The improving has to stop somewhere and alreayd having 4 difficulties was already catering to the casual, normal is old flex btw. Why do they need TF aswell? So when you get acpped LFR, normal and HC should also get mythic mount as a dropchance. At what point do we stop?

Maybe when you get everything on 1 char take a break do, it for fun with friends or start an alt. We don’t need endless progression.

126

Or you could just make the gameplay more engaging for the player so that they have more of an incentive to play besides getting more gear…

127

This is the attitude I meant, there must be a difference and not just in mogs or an achievement.

There IS a difference. There is a BIG difference in fact, just not as big of a difference as there was between raiders and non-raiders in the past. How is that such a big problem for you?

If I would compare my gear to any player who raids or does higher m+, they are always going to have better overal gear. Always.

The point is, and always will be, fun.
If your fun is feeling better than others because you have higher gear, sorry you don’t get sympathy from me. That’s not a healthy way to look at things. Of course you can be proud of what YOU achieve in the game. But that doesn’t make you any better than anyone else playing the game. Not now, not ever.

You wanna progress you chars beyond Il 350 or 355 (when TF gets capped) go jump into normal.

No. I don’t like raiding. I don’t enjoy it. I play games for my enjoyment.
Yet, this is an (MMO)RPG. Advancing your character is at its core. All the people who don’t like raiding or who cannot raid for whatever reason; they pay the same amount of money as you do. They pay to have fun too. You cannot ignore all those people. You just can’t.

now you get all 385-400 from LFR and you were lucky with titanforging now you have no reason to do it anymore nor you can improve your char.

I wouldn’t do normal anyway. No matter if there was titanforging or not. So that doesn’t change anything. What it DOES change is the fact that I can still get some character advancement from time to time. So that helps with my enjoyment of the game because like I explained; advancing your character is at the very core of RPGs. Not only raiders have the right to that core feature.

You’re dragging things into this that have nothing to do with TF.
There’s a clear barrier Blizzard has created for BfA. In Legion the TF barrier was a LOT lower.

They’ve already nerfed the system a lot and its very noticeable. But I understand why it was nerfed, because it was causing imbalances for the higher raiding community. Those problems are now solved and yet there’s still people complaining and blaming TF for everything you can imagine. It needs to stop. People need to realize that TF is not needed. You don’t need BiS. Blizzard doesn’t want you to chase BiS. They said so. Just stop it. Game responsibly.

128

I wish it was that simple.
Only making the content fun is not enough for an RPG. It needs worthwhile rewards. Doesn’t have to be gear perse, but what is worthwhile differs from person to person.

For me BfA is seriously lacking worthwhile content. That coupled with the fact that the content it has isn’t exactly much fun (IEs are meh, Warfronts are fun for a once per 2 week thing I suppose, WQs are very hit and miss fun-wise, but they really need a proper reward to stay relevant and worthwhile tbh, missions have been nerfed so much they’re basically useless).

8.1 might be bringing some improvement, but I don’t think its enough unfortunately.

129

Yet your side keeps ignoring no matter how small the chance it ruin the natural progression. Hence the cap of TF at +15 or +10 so you stilll have a reason to betetr yourself and reduce the casino aspect. I don’t care wheter an alt just is 340-350, it doesn’t raid so don’t need the gear. Yet my rogue feels like cheating only killed world bosses and aside from daggers (smart system Bliz I don’t play or ever played combat/outlaw but all you give are maces…) already suprassed normal raid.

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130

I am so sick of the RNG upon RNG upon RNG.

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131

Oh I never said it would be easy to do, but it can be done. The thing is that Blizzard don’t seem to care about making the game fun, because at the end of the day a games company relies on their shareholders and investors. The only thing the shareholders and investors care about is how much money players are spending and how much time they are playing. Fun and engagement doesn’t factor into either of those which is why games these days rely so heavily on Skinner Boxes and microtransactions.

132

They dumbing it down because it is much easier to balance in pvp then.
Maybe they are trying to convert it to consol too and mobil ^^

If they wanna make more money they have to make it more fun to play.
Ask yourself HOW many games that looks bad(:poop:), actually to little to do etc. you have played just because it really god gameplay. (like Trackmainia, just an ex.)

Now that I think about, I’m glad they have this :poop: TF system because it makes me wanna play less :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

133

you think you dont want it but you do © blizzard 2k18

99% approximately disliking TF and WF but hey! blizzard knows better whats best for us

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134

99% of numbers on the forums are made up. Yeah.

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135

I don’t ignore it, I just don’t agree that that ‘natural’ progression (as you call it) still has a place in games in 2018. It’s a system from a time past. WoW’s progression systems in the modern day are MUCH better than during the early days of its existence.

136

First of all there is no “natural” progression, just cause you got used to a system in one game you played it doesn’t make it natural or universal.

Secondly it doesn’t ruin any progression, the game has content of different difficulty levels and you’ll always progress through them in the exact same order regardless of how many TF you have.

Lastly, you’re probably talking about “gear” progression here, and that’s funny because back in the days when you were running heroic dungeons for some silly badges and buying raid gear from vendor nobody was whining about gear progression.
Nobody was complaining how they can’t progress in the glove slot because they already have a better item than it drops in the raid, yet now it if happens randomly it’s somehow a problem that threats progression. Guess there weren’t many popular streamers back then to tell you what to think.

137

There was tho, so if there isn’t one now it’s only because it was lost

The only way it could have been lost was if the natural gearing progression was interupted with gear powerful enough to be far above the intended difficulty of the content that rewarded it. This started small and was doable in most cases.

I.E. getting heroic raid gear for completing 4 +0’ mythics, this could be worse because it’s not like this is there every two weeks, or every month, or more then 3 times during a content patch.

WARFRONTS however are once every month and will be once every 2 weeks and while not rewarding literal uldir heroic gear it does reward 370, so more and more heroic raid ready characters that maybe never even entered normal or LFR or a keystone beyond 1 affix (hi me) will start to exist

There was a natural gearing progression in TBC (can’t talk for earlier then that) get to max, maybe with or without dungeons. Do max level dungeons (todays heroic dungeon has taken this function), do heroic dungeons (todays m0 has taken that function) , do the first raid tier, do the second raid tier, etc.

Now it’s; Get to maxlevel, wait for a warfront or some weekly where you’ll be given free raid gear, the more you can skip dungeons the better.
Raid tiers? don’t be rediculous, M0’s drop better gear baseline then the raid tier of the previous season.

I used to like the old system a lot better, fight to your teeth until you master a raid, then go onto the next raid tier and start over again.
Now what do you do after you finish a raid? you wait until next week so you can do it again. Progressing to a more difficult raid isn’t even possible

Edit:
As for titanforging, as long as LFR gear cannot go beyond Normal gear, Normal gear can’t go beyond Heroic gear, Heroic gear can’t go beyond Mythic gear etc. I’m happy. I’m in favor of OP’s suggestion with the +5/10 because that would achieve that goal

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138

No, there wasn’t, you call it “natural” because it was the only one you knew, because your knowledge is very limited.
You can just say that some details regarding progression changed a bit, but the big picture remained the same.

What are you talking about man? yeah after you finish a raid you clear it again next week, this has always been the case. Have you ever raided before?
Also this is the start of the expansion, there is no “more difficult raid” yet, also you’re talking about catch-up mechanics, which again have nothing to do with titanforge.

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139

This isn’t restricted to titanforging but it does contribute to it. The problem with the entire gearing system in bfa is that it skips you past the learning content. You can very easily get 350ilvl just from doing world quests and warfronts, which means from there the only way to get upgrades is to go into either a heroic raid or an M+5 dungeon.

These are not the places to be learning the content but players are being put into that environment because it’s the only place to upgrade their gear.

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140

Yes, because it was a reward for an effort made, not a giveaway. I don’t mind bringing back the upgrade system to what it was like in MoP where you had a piece drop and could be upgraded by a token through a vendor. This would benefit the game a lot; People who love getting complete BiS will be able to target it. People who want to their items upgraded will be able to. It will be consistent with the content and effort you actually put, without the casino effect. And people will have a reason to stay longer and do the content again (which I actually never took as a point in favor of TF, people never stopped playing the content because of the lack of TF back in the days).