Titanforging, masterloot, etc... Blizzard you're killing the game

(Rezista) #106

Guess which one is playing the game for over 12 years and which is on and off monthly. Because of the high accessability the game is garbage and has the lowest sub numbers ever, in the west.

(Gratna) #107

I agree with this if only i could like your comment more.


this is actually extremly true but “raiders” deliberately keep quiet about this .

they have problem with TF and gear from emmisaries

yet they dont have problem with thousands of people them included selling boosts for everything .

no no selling boost is ok and it doesnt diminish their “achievments” :slight_smile:


(Rezista) #110

Show me one person who ever said that, or thinks along these line. Literally give me 1 person. Everyone I know disregards achievments as an accomplishment. Because of boosting, when I see cutting edge I immidietly go to warcraft logs to check him.

(Wwhelp) #111

I don’t think this or anything else what u say about boosting in relation to tokens is really true…

I do agree that WF/TF is garbage though and has little to do with boosting, for what it’s worth.

(Rezista) #112

There were no boosting communities before wow tokens. There were far less boosters and far less buyers, because the gold pool in the game was far less, since it was not allowed to buy gold for real currency. Since game tokens came, which were the way of Blizzard to start selling gold and get ALL of the chinese sites’ money, boosting became a lot more organized, due to the high gold pool in the servers. People bosst from the highest populated server like Ravencrest, Silvermoon, Kazzak, Tarren Mill, Twisting Nether, in the dead ones for outrageous prises, because you can buy wow tokens from any server and any faction, essentially making the gold economy game-wide. Thus if you remove wow tokens, or restrict them to server/faction wide - boosting would fall apart, the token prices would fall apart and the money Blizzard would get from selling gold would fall apart.

(Wwhelp) #113

Thing with the tokens is that they’re not conjuring up gold out of nowhere so you can’t really say that they by itself inflate the ingame economy. When you buy a token to sell, you take the gold off of someone who buys your token, you don’t buy gold from Blizz directly, just the token.

I also think the cost of a token in relation to the boosting costs is still far too prohibitive for it to elevate the boosting scene in such a drastic manner, but then again IDK the prices, all I’ve heard is heresay on what boosts cost.

(Redoctober) #116

That’s true, but the gold is at first generated out of nothing. And even if it wouldn’t be, it still doesn’t matter. The crux of the matter is that people can buy gold, and that gold is worth real money. The fact that gold is worth real money means that there is a group motivated to acquiring it, and the fact that it can be bought means that there is another group that can get large quantities instantly for no in-game effort.

If you now ask yourself what other things is a significant part of a demographic that is inclined to get gold for no in-game effort likely to buy, that is in-game power / prestige / anything else of in-game value. If you also ask yourself how would a significant part of the other demographic sell, the one that wants to acquire gold because of the real money value it intrinsically has, it would have to meet the demand from the gold buying demographic, the one that tends to amass gold with ease. So they would have to sell power / prestige.

Obviously boosts existed before the token as well, but they certainly were not as prevalent. Getting boosted meant either running the risk of your account getting banned and spending that RL money for nothing, the issue of trust related to boosting companies (there is still higher trust in fellow WoW players that some shady company sending you to a misspelled site), and the issue of not knowing exactly where and how to find the boosting services. The risk to reward ratio for boosting was much lower before the token, which simply meant less boosting.

A token costs 20 euro. Compare that to a p2w mobile phone game where whales spend upwards of 1000$, and suddenly it’s not prohibitive at all. :slight_smile:


do you have any proofs of this claim ? besides PR bs spread by blizzard.

unless you are naive enough to belive this system is really self regulated :slight_smile:

(Trelw) #118

Sorry, but every single phrase in that paragraph is wrong. While WCR coverage is lacking, on many realms severely… past 30 days…

Argent Dawn: Alliance 29 587 (82%, yellow) Horde 6 357 (18%, red)
Draenor: Alliance 755 (1%, red) Horde 60 522 (99%, green)
Silvermoon: Alliance 59 712 (95%, green) Horde 3 014 (5%, red)

In other words, almost all of those numbers are severely too LOW in comparison to actual ones (and they consist of levels 20 to 120 only). US, EU and RU regions total more than 2,3 million, minimum, in active accounts. I posted on this in another thread… I ran some of the latest numbers and ended up as follows:

US over 1,2 million minimum
EU about 0,975 million minimum (other posters noted that EU should have bigger value than US, if that is correct, then 1,2+ million).
RU at least 52 000+, probably 89 000+ and due to notes from other players, possibly as much as 137 000+.

Only 36 EU factions are currently in the green on WCR… Which means that values for over 400 EU factions are far too low… and that means those three are not the only EU ones above 30 k active characters.

EDIT: Typo on a value.

(Wwhelp) #119

The point with that is gold isn’t “conjured” but is rather in circulation already, so saying that tokens inflate the economy by putting more gold into it just isn’t true. (could argue about the semantics and how all gold is conjured in an MMO but cba)

I do think that if what you say with the last sentence is that the existence of tokens motivates a certain subset of players to acquire more of it, tokens indirectly inflating the economy by existing as a carrot of sorts, then that’s a thought I could get behind.
In an economy where currency is infinite, you can inflate it just by motivating people to accumulate it more.

Was boosting not happening via gold transactions before tokens? Genuine question, I don’t know how much gold was worth to whoever was selling boosts before.
Guess not much if the tokens played such a big part in the growth of boosting?

You don’t hear much about wow whales like you do with fifa and mobile games. Maybe it’s just selective reporting on this stuff? IDK.

I’m willing to concede my stance on tokens not playing a part in boosting though. I got a rough idea on the “model” and how it works in my head from ur reply, and it does kinda make sense, to me at least. (edit: typo)

Errr. Are you saying that Blizzard is lying about how a monetary transaction functions? I’m no expert, but that sounds sort of illegal. Do you think they’d be willing to run the risk of lying about it rather than just be upfront?

And if ur only referring to the fluctuation in token value, I never said anything about that.

(Adirei) #120

This is something I forgot to include in my original post specifically. Back in the day almost a lot of the content, at least anything what progressed the “power” of your character, was only doable by joining a group or a guild. That feeling of community, intensified by Server affiliation, was what made WoW such an interesting and consuming experience. Your mates and you often battled the guys you knew on the other faction, after a horrendous battle you often joined the teamspeak of the opposing side and chatted about it.
Your guild often was a strong community, steeled by many collective group and raid experiences, which you had to do, if you wished to progress your char gear-wise.
Man… Pulling stunts like crashing the server by a gurubashi arena mass battle, pulling world bosses to capitals… Spreading the plague…
For me it feels like WoW lost the sense of community feeling and almost all the fun stuff.

Oh and btw I don’t have anything against a good grind, when it has purpose! Very good point, when someone mentioned the uselessness of ap grind, if a pick-up mechanic brings you up to speed in no time.

(Redoctober) #121

There was some, I distinctly remember MoP CMs being quite boostable for gold and that was before tokens iirc, but I don’t recall much boosting for gold aside for that before the token.

I know some myself. It’s just anecdotal, but I know such people, they used to pay for an entire guild to migrate (alts and all) from one server to another and such. But obviously I have no actual proof of how many and such; all I can say is that tokens existence definitely facilitates boosting because they appeal to the same mindset (pay money to buy in-game stuff) and because they add a real life money value to gold. By how much, that I can’t say.

(Adirei) #122

Very very few, as you couldn’t do much with your gold. Blizzard implemented some gold dumps like the Transmog-Mount in MOP mostly due to insane amounts of gold on players accounts (at that time anyway).

(Destruct) #123

120k was lots yeah, look at Legion 3.750m (2m mount, 1m pet, 500k mount and 250k toy), now we have reached as of 8.1 thanks to two expansions worth of mission table gold: 5m mount, 500k mount, 3x 333k mounts and a 100k pet.

(Tahra) #124

More hyperbole and bad generalization.

That’s not the reason subs are low and the game isn’t garbage. Don’t get me wrong; BfA is FAR from perfect, but it’s not garbage. If you really think it is, why are you even here (or were you just spewing even more hyperbole? Maybe get that in check a bit) ?

(Trelw) #125

@Tahra: Several very good points.

(Adirei) #126

I don’t get why anyone always assumes that one who critizises certain aspects, where she or he believes that the development of wow took a step (or leap!) in the wrong direction, hates the game.

We care about it, because we love it (well at least I do), and that’s what should be way more alarming to the developers than anything else. When players, who stayed with this game for a very long time are suddenly loosing interest in it on a large scale are turning their backs on it. (and I just have to check my empty friendlist for it)
I would really like to know how many of the half-year subs (for the floating ship-mount) have actually stopped playing already or will not resub after the 6month-sub is running out.
That’s what it is for me right now, my account is paid till april, and if nothing substantial changes, I won’t resub afterwards.


Not so. We were selling boosts (my US Guild) for Observed as far back as WOTLK for gold. It paid for the extra saronite orbs I needed for Shadowmourne.

It has always been a part of the game. Maybe a bit more organised now due to the monetary value of tokens as previously those seeking a boost had to grind gold out in game. However it isn’t something that just arrived with the Token in WOD.

(Lightness) #128

Ok ,I understand the frustration of the OP that normal and heroic give sometimes equal to mythic raid ,but can you please explain to me. What do you mean by people with no skills?