Titan forging is fine. It keeps me playing and redo certain content. If TF wasnt here and ill be fully geared, there would be no other things i could do to improve my char. Keep warforge and titanforge. Its fine.
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Mostly that one, just by doing worldquests and stuff can outgear the raid tier they’re attending.
Back in the days it was normal to do a new raid tier equipped with ilvl lower than the one that is actually dropping in the raid. What it has become, is that you have got the gear with ilvl matching your raid tier already (apart from mythic raiding!) All obtainend just by doing WQs, emissaries, warfronts, etc… - which you can complete by just backpedalling or hitting random keys on your keyboard - so when you’re joining a raid there is almost no sense of “char/gear-power” progress, especially now that they got rid of the tier-sets, something that normally provided some kind of boost even on the same itemlvl.
So if you never have to learn to master your class, because you were never facing anything complicated before, they’re getting stuck on supposely simple mechanics. HP-pools are also a big point here, if you just can survive failing a mechanic easily, because you’re left with 25% instead of 5% (and you’re healers are outgearing everything anyway^^) you just don’t care about your mistakes anymore.
And I believe that certain mechanics (someone mentioned the a few posts before) that just wipe your group on a boss are implemented because of this fundamental flaw, because otherwise everyone would just streamline through hc in the first two weeks - like it is the case with normal (the new lfr imho) right now.
Well… It’s like treating the symptom and ignoring the illness that’s causing it.^^
And what about all the players that don’t raid, but would still like character progression to happen at max level? There’s no alternatives for those players if it were changed back to how it was in the old days. Just… be done and unsub. That doesn’t sound like a good business savvy way of running the game to me.
In a perfect world all types of players would get what they want, but it isn’t perfect and concessions have to be made. Too many people enjoy or profit from TF being there to just remove it without providing an alternative.
3 Likes
Liar, you have cleared hc uldir and even done mythic. That is not casual player lmao.
Why do some ppl care about other’s gear at all? That will make yours better or worse? And why do you regret having better gear over time and character progression on your own? It’s nonsense.
You gain that ilvl by doing content, you do content on the level of your skill. The higher ilvl you have and the better skill you have the more content will be opened for you. It’s up to you to do them or not.
In the past you cleared the normal/hc raid on the week and you got no more than a few (or even none) items from the run and your progression stopped for 1 whole week with no other competitive options or activities to do.
Now we have many ways to participate in, to improve character gear progression, and most of them are doable at any time of the day. Why having more options is a bad thing?
TF, gems, tertiary stats are just an extra and they occour much less often than they did during Legion. What you can see on the forums or on the armory is just a drop in the ocean. Only a few lucky ones out of millions. Believe it or not, most of the players still don’t do raid content, and many of them don’t even do mythic keystones.
It’s just all the loud minority here, as always.
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Repeat after me, more time investment in harder content = better rewards. TF takes that away and not only that it forces raiders who needs gear for progression to join lower difficulties to still go for a TF. You thought the Withered Jim trinket was bad which we farmed the entirehood of Legion? Well atleast it was targetable with a vendor on the Broken Shore and Argus.
For all the claims how LFR and normal players are decked out in current tier mythic level gear there is no proof of this. If it existed we’d see armory links and screenshots constantly. We don’t. We’ve all seen the same handful of images of an LFR piece titanforging to a decent ilevel, but it’s such a rarity that nobody has several LFR or normal pieces like that. If you run heroic every week all tier you can expect to have a couple mythic level titanforged pieces but that is not a common thing. No actual data to the contrary. Pretty easy to see from armory links that people who run heroic all tier will have a few nice pieces. Who gives a d*** ? Mythic raiders shouldn’t care about that because all their pieces are at least that level or higher. Players shouldn’t be obsessed about does LFR or normal player wins the lottery or a heroic player works all tier to get a couple nice pieces. The TF issue is overblown by certain type of players and a case of special snowflake syndrome from a couple of youtubers.
2 Likes
Like it or not it is here to stay because if they remove it they will just sour the vast majority who go nowhere near a raid.
Heck they even have normal difficulty nerfed into the ground to try and get people to raid and it isn’t working.
You do realise that at least Blizzard isn’t putting the best gear in store for real money like other MMO’s are doing right now, or worse behind RNG purchasable lock boxes. That is the next step if subs crash further, and if you remove easy gearing for casuals that is exactly what will happen.
Like it or not the days of “I’m entitled to it because I worked for it in game, and you’re not because your a scrub” are over. Most players these days are not students or unemployed and they won’t pay real money to be second class citizens when it comes to obtaining gear.
People should raid because the enjoy it, and what the achievement. I also note you have cleared Mythic Uldir, why gear is anything to you other than a tool doesn’t make sense.
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@Adirei meh, let the noobs get their 395 gear, there is a reason why we have all these addons such as Raider io etc to filter the noobs from pro’s so we can see what kind of player it is that is signing up, dont get to attached mate and chill 
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Recently me and some friends developed a new drinking game.
Drink everytime you see a cry post on the forums…
Try it ![:smiley:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Yes, better rewards. But what do you consider to be better rewards? The best rewards?
I consider evolving is the best reward. Being able to beat harder and harder content. Beat mythic raid, beat higher and higher keystones. After a point, if most of these loud players would recognize that not only gear means progression in this game, the forums would be a more peaceful place.
Instead, it’s easier to come here, write a wall of text about the game being bad, while they don’t even participate in real hard content the game has to offer.
Well, they are not the target audience of the game anymore.
2 Likes
/sign - you are Right.It’s fine and it works well.
When WoW was its peak only a small % of people actually raided, while there were no random item upgrade systems in place.
Except they kind of are. Weekly caches are essentially that - loot boxes, you do pay for them not only with money but with time as well. Azerite gear up until that point was the essence of loot boxing. You have BLP that will reset after getting a single RANDOM Azerite piece. Only the outcry of the “gamers rise up” meme made Blizzard fix that retardation.
As for the ingame store - well the best mounts are there, who are just, as important to players as far as rewards go, as actual gear, if not more, because gear is meaningless nowdays, since there is a hard reset every 3 months.
And this is why the game is in such a poor state, because there is no strive to improvement.
This argument is very misguided. Every Mythic guild is made from working people. The studets are very far in between, yet these people still put the effort in the game. Despite of pupular believe I, who work 8-10h a day, have enough time to keep up with my neck and progress through the hardest content there is, without that effecting nither my personal, nor my professional life. Putting effort nowdays, means raiding 2-3 days a week for 3.30h, and doing a couple of +10 M+.
There is no achievment in raiding Mythic. Gear is meaningless; there is no mount from Ghuun; achievment is meaningless, because of cutting edge boosts; there is no representation of doing something hard other than a Title, which most players don’t even see, due to their UIs.
The game needs to go to its roots, where Effort = Reward.
You can not build an immersive MMO world when doing a world quest can reward you with the best possible gear. This works for ARPGs, but not for MMOs.
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the irony when those “noobs” never apply to those "hardcore " groups and the only ones who apply are wannabe midcore 2-5k raiders ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
so you honestly belive that joe average who do only lfr and WQ applies to your +10 keys ?
i hope you mean whining thread - cause posts in this thread alone would put your life in danger from alcohol poisoning
This is pure nonsense.
The game is NOT made for the most hardcore of hardcore.
It’s made for a large variety of players and what you’re basically saying is that players who don’t run the hardest content in the game, have no right to an opinion about it, which is pretty much the definition of elitism. Which is not something to be proud of tbh.
When wow was at it’s peak the majority of players were busy exploring a world they hadn’t seen before that was fresh and new to them. That is no longer the case.
Sorry there is no comparison between a loot box you earn with ingame time and one for sale in a store that you buy with real money.
That was only ever the preserve of a small percentage of the player base. If you remove the loot for casuals you won’t get a surge in people doing Heroic/Mythic raiding. You will get a surge to the door and a disastrous loss of subs.
It is far from misguided, I raided for years with this guild here in the United States ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/suramar/Multifarious_Inc/achievement#15093 ) so I know exactly how chasing realm firsts and high guild rankings consumes ALL of your free time.
You are beginning to sound like it’s more about your epeen and “those filthy casuals having gear” now. The achievement is what it is all about and getting your guild high up in the world rankings. Most serious raiders don’t care about gear beyond using it as a tool to get stuff done. As for carrys / boosts that was always the case, and if a guild is good enough to carry someone through a Mythic raid then they deserve anything they can get gold or moneywise.
2 Likes
Every expansion we have a new continent. The problem is not the world isn’t fresh, but that it is dull in its core. Easy to come rewards make it dull.
Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean there isn’t.
You mean the thing that is happening now?
I disagree, you need 20h of gameplay a week in order to stay on top with your gear and artifact power, including raid nights.
They don’t, because it is random and dull. That is why the mythic raiding scene is slowly dying. There are less and less players raiding with each tier.
Not really. People didn’t care about boosts for a while. But that is another topic that involves gametime tokens.
I totally agree LFR, personal loot, never ending flow of epics, titanforgin, LFG, island expeditions and warfront are making the game so easy and convenient that I really don’t have a need for other ppl in an MMORPG. It’s been turned into a single player game with very random NPC’s.
For one character, now in a really competitive guild multiply that by a couple of alts. Even then 20 hours per week is a part time job. When we were seriously seeking server firsts and maintaining our high US rankings I used to play anywhere between four and six raid ready toons for class stacking. If you are lucky enough to be in a serious mythic guild that tolerates you playing one class and still gives you a raid spot you are very lucky.
Unless you are one of the lucky few who gets paid real money / sponsorship to raid Mythic there is only so long that anyone can do it for without suffering burnout. At least if you want any meaningful achievements out of it like US or EU top 100, server first etc.
Personally I was always more concerned about where my guild ranked in WOW Progress than gear, mounts or anything else.
Boost were always there. We used to charge 50,000g back in WOTLK to players who wanted Algernon. Heck I even remember people selling runs through the dead mines and stockades to lower levels before LFG.