I wasn’t really arguing between OOCers/RPers - My point was that at times, Amdusias’ point of RPers can be their own worst enemy is true. Not that OOC is one thing and RP is another. To sit their and blindly state “No, that’s not true and a joke” would be so ignorant of what happens in our own community.
That’s what I mean by unacceptable. Yes, you should RP within the universe that you’re given, but again, my statement was clearly highlighting the stigma’s people create. Why can’t people just happily RP in Stormwind without someone judging them for it?
I guess I am selfish in wanting to RP the character I wanted, yes. But the fact I didn’t just wave it aside and created a scenario, involving characters closely associated with Tyrenas in ‘resurrecting him’ and took into the account the events he was involved in during my time RPing him. I don’t think I was as selfish as you think.
I’ve written up an entire story explaining what happened and why he returned and I don’t think I have to sit and explain myself everytime someone asks “Oh I thought you were dead?” It’s not an experience he would talk about IC and it is so long winded I dislike explaining. Mainly because I fear the judgement of others when I go into detail about the story.
You came across so definitive in your post that I had to raise the point.
Some RPer PMing you confused about why your character came back to life after years as a DK isn’t really comparable to an OOCer standing on top of an RP event for 4 hours straight or griefers hitting an RP PVP event for a week straight
One is based on curiosity (or disagreement) with what is ostensibly a very very out there piece of roleplay (which is your right and privilege to do, of course) and one is a universal desire to disrupt RP because a streamer once said it was funny to do that or w/e
It’s kind of a tired radical centrist point - yeah, some RPers are not so pleasant and I think absolutely 0% of people deny that but an RP server has to have those guys while it really doesn’t have to have the cathedral square pvpqtx mammoth patrol at all
“x is bad but what about y bad thing” isn’t an argument
Again, wasn’t arguing I just didn’t think outright saying it doesn’t exist or is not a thing that’s a problem shouldn’t be ignored.
Because that’s what Rainwatcher’s statement sounded like when worded “What a joke.”
It exists.
I’m not here to argue OOC/RP stuff and you can’t say this isn’t the place for this when we’ve seen this thread derail so many times already and is more of a thought dump for some at this point.
There are/have definitely been instances of roleplayers griefing others out of some e-vendetta, but it’s OOCers who more regularly disrupt RP. I think most people agree that these things aren’t mutually exclusive.
It’s really fun to see OOCers start dueling in the middle of RP hubs and talking OOC in /say about how they like to chill here with their off realmer friends and “watch the RP” which they’re actively disrupting
RPers who are caught griefing at least can face a reprecussion in terms of their reputation - ie. if some dude was griefing loads people would be way less likely to want to associate with them
OOC players have no such worries because being disliked in a community they never intend to join is kind of a badge of honour
This tends to happen on AD. I’ve seen cases where individuals tell me they don’t want to associate with a person or guild just because they didn’t like their campaign and “special snowflakeness”, “not accepting consequences” was among them. In other words they didn’t like the RP, but didn’t either talk to these people much OOCly in form of feedback or creating solutions that would make RP work between them if they ever came to interact.
Then there have been cases where individuals don’t want to associate with a person or a guild for OOC reasons, like something they do OOCly makes them uncomfortable even if IC worked. I’m usually more prone to this as I believe in order to keep IC working is through OOC understanding and respect of one another. RPing conflict can be hard without a ruleset which each participant has OOCly agreed on for example, violations of boundaries are more likely.
Very true. Although still, tolerance is well advised even if people had different standards. ERP and loller-RPing is probably even more immersion-breaking that non-roleplayers flying around or randomly running past imho, but griefing RP is still unacceprable whether it came from fellow roleplayer or an OOCer.
This! Not that Bloodseeker’s point would be totally invalid, RP should be fun and people shouldn’t be excessively dominating how others should roleplay… but insensitivity towards enjoyment of others, or lack of that essential collaboration, is just meh.
This. Hence there is no “one right answer” to where the line should be pulled. Aside from Blizz’s responsibility to enforce their ToS or update it accordingly, as well as giving more consideration to RP community.
This applies only when we assume the roleplayer is a proper, long-term roleplayer instead of someone who uses RP as a covert method to abuse. Recalling what went down with that one Duskwood based guild an year ago, it was an active popular guild that provided the area daily RP… until the GM was caught from doxxing and threatening one of his guildmates. Which came with consequences obviously. So it’s not “we’re all holier than OOCers” although majority of us are here to roleplay within respect of self, other people and ToS.
RPers griefing RPers out of events tend to get a hard backlash (and usually rightfully so), because the community understands that concept of common courtesies when it comes to RP, even if you can’t stand the RPer.
OOCers begin as curiosity but it becomes mockery and unpleasantness, mainly because the courtesies within our community are either unknown or completely disregarded, mainly because they hold us in contempt.
So whilst RPers can make foul enemies of each other, especially in an RP setting, OOCers are the bigger enemy when it comes to disruption.
You bring up the Duskwood based Church of Eternal Grace as some kind of exception, but it only proves the rule. The guild and the GM promptly made themselves scarce once an overwhelming amount of the RP community got word and confirmation of his crimes. The community is very capable of bringing social consequence to bear on blatant abusers.
Example, not an exception. I’d rather judge malicious actions than whether someone is a roleplayer or not, while also understanding that non-roleplayers who disregard roleplayers are most undersirable.
They are OOC actions, but they can come from a roleplayer or a non-roleplayer. Just because we roleplay doesn’t mean there’s not an out-of-character person behind every screen. But that’s not the point I was making. Imho it’s about acknowledging grey areas between extremes, we all want the worst scum out but do we judge people solely for whether they roleplay or not, or for their actions that are against ToS?
