And that is why you have the option of leaving. And if you disagree, you should.
I said that before already. Its not rocket science.
But I also have the right to carry my friend. Please don’t campaign to remove that right from me. For the same reason I don’t campaign for your right to disagree with something in the party.
Well you seem paranoid enough to post in the forums when people dont perform. And actively ask for some built in tool that would do that job for you.
So you either do like me, that I join keys with a “whatever happens happens, im here to have fun” attitude. OR… if you are so concerned about the performance of others, then by all means inspect them.
And leave if you dont like what you see.
Its not an issue. You are doing what is 100% correct and expected. No need to discuss if its “correct” or “not correct”. You 100% have the right to do so if you dont agree.
In fact, you can even do what I do : if a shaman healer joins I inspect his talents. And ask for specific things that might be useful (like curse dispel in Uldaman for example).
If you say please and a logical reason 99% of the time people will happily do it.
It’s a difference between “being paranoid” and “being factually correct about it”.
The player in question in my group did across the entire dungeon 5 mio dmg. That was 0,6% of the entire group damage.
He was LITERALLY deadweight, constantly died, deducting time from our timer while extending the combat time due to not contributing because he was quite dead all the time. I even told the healer to stop reviving him, because he will die from the next thing in one hit anyway.
Or option C) people like you actually write in the title “carrying a friend”. Then at least people can avoid you. Oh wait, you never would do that, because that would mean actually informing the people joining that your friend will be deadweight on their legs. Which in result means less people joining your group.
Oh, if we go by that definition of “what is 100% correct”, the correct way to play as the developers intended to play the game would be:
Level to 70 and gear → Play Heroics to gear → Play Mythic 0 to gear → Play Mythic+ to gear
NOT
2 expansions old character to Level 70 → Skip Heroics → Skip Mythic 0 → Join friend that carries you in Mythic+ despite being not ready gear-wise.
Just because it is possible doesn’t mean it was intended to work that way.
If you want a minimum Ilevel, make your own group, set up a minimum ilevel for the key or reject anyone under the threshold you choose. There’s no need to make an automatic system for that. Il would be more harmful than helpful for most people.
The key would have probably been timed fine and the person at least put a group up.
Not sure why “sheeple” refuse to put themselves out there and make groups then complain wholeheartedly that someone dared to be in their key that didn’t conform to their irrelevant pre-req’s.
I think, and I would also like, that a disclaimer could do just fine. Something popping up with a message like “the level of the content you’re about to try is higher than yours (suggested minimum ilvl: xxx). Are you sure you want to proceed? Y/N” atleast you always know what you’re about to face. Then it’s up to the group to accept you or not of course
The whole point of WoW is that you can walk anywhere. And if you are level 10 and you walk somewhere with level 50 mobs and die from a 1-shot… its your problem…
This is the reality : The developers intended you to make the decisions you want. And then its up to you to do what you want to do. Including convincing 4 other people to carry you.
And I have yet to see an example as extreme as yours. Take in mind that I have carried many people in dungeons. I should have encountered someone like that atleast once.
Dont be lazy. Just hover over the HP of people. If its below 1M you are carrying someone.
Its just 5 people. You dont even need to inspect any talent or gear.
You can be correct, and not care… And can be correct and care.
They are not mutually exclusive.
You seem to be correct, and care at the same time. And that is OK.
Just admit to that and act accordingly. Inspect your teammates. Simple as that.
And respect others that dont have your mentality. They also have a right to play as they want.
And if you cant agree with other people. That is also OK. Its 100% the correct thing to part ways. Nobody is being forced to play.
Its the beauty of the MMO genre. And its what the devs intended.
no need yo be paranoid ans you dont need to check everyones gear.
HP is the best indicator, especially of you know that dks, wl and shamans have generally higher poola.
if i see a shaman at 800k hp, i know he has basically gear from last season as my shaman has above 1.4 mio hp.
anything below 1 mio hp has quite bad gear as a rule of thumb.
if you see someone with 200k it is very extreme
Which you would have known by hovering over his HP bar and seeing such a low number. Would have taken you 3 seconds and you could have noped out right there before the key was even put in.
Be honest. You made a mistake, we have all done it.
Do you really need blizz to babysit you to that level?
I wouldn’t call it “baby sitting”. More like “asking for properly designing this game”.
So many things about WoW are either non-existent in design or if, quite badly implemented. Of all MMORPGs I ever played, WoW has/had the most outdated UI features, the most outdated leveling system and the most outdated graphics (when looking at earlier expansions).
There is a reason why I have been non-stop criticizing this game since I started playing it in BfA S2. It has simply so many flaws older players ignore or are reluctant to acknowledge. And because of that mentality, Blizzard has done in the past nothing to adress those issues which did boil up over time.
For a game that expects you to pay DLC + Game Time to play (roughly 260€ per 2 years - made a typo there…), that’s a MASSIVE lack of quality for the money people pay for.
Yes. And we aren’t talking about M+ itself as an activity. We are talking about people, outside of the intended gear range for said activity, participating IN said activity. Something that shouldn’t be possible in my eyes. At least not without UI information highlighting such groups/players.
You do have that info clearly highlighted in UI information. They already explained : HP bars.
You just refused to look at it… so its a YOU problem. Not a Blizz problem.
In YOUR eyes. Not in the eyes of others.
If you cant reach the basic conclusion of : YOU decide how you play. But you have to let others decide how THEY play… then I dont know what to say.
How can I respect your point of view if you refuse to respect other points of view? To the point that you want Daddy Blizz to enforce YOUR views on everyone else?
What kind of jerk do you have to be ?
What is so difficult to understand? Its not rocket science. Common !
I respect your point of view. So they already told you : Use the ONLY UI info that actually works perfect (hovering people’s HP) and YOU choose if you want to stay or not.
SIMPLE !
I mean… I know people that are super into the RP and refuse to play with alliance charactesr. They hover over the party frames, and if they see alliance they kindly say “no thanks” and leave.
That is 1 example of an even dumer reason than yours to not to play with other people.
But everyone is free to play as they wish. Including YOU. Respect that. Please…
As far as I remember M0 will be on a daily lockout in TWW, so that change is already happening.
As to the point of the topic: There is actually a system already in place, but it is governed by those who create the group. You can set a minimum itemlevel for keys, which means those that do not meet that ilvl cannot see your group in LFR.
But just like with many other things you cannot make people use features provided if they do not want to.
I will have to look into it, but I think Details should have an section where you can see the itemlevels of those in your group. It would not hurt if they added an option in the UI setting that shows the itemlevel of the character you hover over with your mouse. Though even now you can look at health bars and use that as an indicator.
You want someone to take responsibility for your failure to look at what your are doing.
Your proposal would mean that when one of my in game freinds wants to level a new character i couldnt help them. Usually when this happens we wait for the person to get max level then group up with an armor stacked group and smash through a load of Keys funnelling gear to the person so they can play effectively with us. Why would we turn around to a freind and say “Sorry, no more playing together because Herameer wants you to do it yourself”
Surely this goes completely against the social aspect that so many people are bleating on about.
I dont need blizzard to fix this because there is already a way to filter out undergeared players in the game.
“Clearly highlighted” defines as “readable without any further actions from the user”.
To see their HP, I would have to click their frames and then hover over them.
Things shown on your mini-map, THAT is “clearly highlighted”. Not the HP numbers of players you have to click the frame first to read them.
Also, for a matter of fact, Value Numbers and %-values are NOT displayed by default. I checked this just now again by making a character on a PTR with default client settings. The setting “Display Health Text” is always set to “None” by default.
I am looking at this situation not just from an experienced players perspective but ALSO from the perspective of a new player. And new players likely don’t even know such functions exist to display health texts constantly.
And as I mentioned before, the item level of players is NOT displayed to joiners when applying for a Mythic+ group. Only the Host of the group can see that, which is one-sided information flow.
Hence I say they should add a UI info showing the minimum recommended item level for a key, even if it isn’t necessarily required to beat it.
Only recently Blizzard updated the UI in the LFG tool to show class/role icons better. What is so hard to accept that making the item level be displayed as well as the rating for applicants will NOT hurt the game?
This comment shows the illusion you live in regarding WoW. You say “you decide how you play”. And then fail to acknowledge that in 90% of the times people do, they fail to communicate their goals to the other players of the group.
As I said before:
I don’t see you guys carrying your friends do that. You, as a fact, intentionally hold back information about your group goal so people don’t avoid your groups because your group goal is not in line with theirs.
Kinda ironic you say that, considering my comment above. In my eyes, people like you would be the jerk, if you don’t tell people beforehand “hey, I’m carrying my friend for gear drops”.
Imagine a group is forming with the goal to push as fast as possible. And then you come along, with your buddy being total deadweight (and let us assume for this example the host doesn’t decline you), completely contradicting the groups goal and even possibly undermining it.
The experience of others doesn’t matter that much then, eh? Because “I’m helping MUH FREN!!?!?!”
Said player I mentioned in the main topic, DID join in a group of 2 with someone else. Just like you would likely if helping your friends in such a situation, Uda.
Who is then the jerk now?
See:
The issue is not with people not using the feature. The problem with such information features is being restricted to one side exclusively (usually the group leaders one).
Imo players shouldn’t have to hover over a players Health Bar to see if their gear is good or not.
Even a simple change as putting the average item level as number next to the name when opening the inspection window would help A LOT.
That’s such a bad statement in my eyes.
How about we remove the station announcements from busses and trains too, because “it is your responsibility to know everything at anytime in situations you voluntarily engage with”…? Of course, I am pushing beyond reason with my comment. But I hope you get my point.
Convenience / Quality of Life design =/= Laziness/Lack of Responsibility
I am sorry but for what do we have all those catch-up world content please??? Is that not for leveling alts???
I could also say, instead of helping your friend by making other mythic groups miserable, you and your friend should go play stuff like the Time Rifts, Timewalks and heroic dungeons, you know, leveling actually the proper way. Not boosting someone by carrying them through a raid or mythic dungeon, gifting them all of your items because they have the privilege to know you…
And ruining others experience by bringing along deadweight doesn’t go against the social aspect?
If there was a proper “filter” in the game, we could actually set up the group finder following way:
Filter by Score
Filter by Gear
Auto-Decline by Score
Auto-Decline by Gear
The fact we can’t do that, tells a lot about the quality of said “filter”.
Or even better solution. Just add a simple checkbox “Hide Listing from false criteria” so everyone who doesn’t fit inserted criteria (mythic rating, item level, etc.) can’t possibly even see the listing.
Also, if in said filter we could save values as a “preset” instead of constantly loading a blank-slate, people also wouldn’t forget about setting the group up that way.
Those are all things we can’t do (yet) in this game. But we definitely should be able to.
God old mighty. I am getting a philosophy discourse about spending 3 seconds looking at the party frames.
It will. Because if we have to comply to your ridiculous demands of clearly seeing what YOU care about, then we have to do it for every other ridiculous demand.
Like the example I put on the previous post : What faction are they ? Do the have BiS items or not? Do they have Beacon for last boss of BH? Do they have curse/disease/poison dispells? Is anyone an engeneer/herborist/miner/alchemist for dungeon bonuses?
You wanna include all that too or what?
The fact that people (you included) fail to communicate with people is not something Blizz should deal with. YOU should communicate.
And in your very specific case of a low geared carry in your run, its YOUR fail to not see it.
Yesterday I went and played with Amonet from the forums. We puged a group. A dudu (random person I did not know) was clearly undergeared (~ 480 ilvl or something) and we carried him for 3 dungeons. Because we did not care. We timed those 8s anywais.
So I do what I preach. You dont.
Because people look and inspect others that join groups. Its not the first time I have been kicked out of a group because of it you know?
The most recent time was 1 day ago in MoP remix SoO Mythic. I was kicked out because I was not 476 but 474 (I was missing 2 items to upgrade).
Fair enough.
You don’t understand what I am saying.
People don’t have to orbit around YOU and your world view. Nobody has to specifically address you to make sure YOUR views are respected.
That is YOUR responsibility. YOU inspect people. YOU decide.
You are not the center of the universe. And other players are not NPCs that orbit around you.
And trying to force that situation is being a jerk.
Of course its a bad statement in your eyes, it requires you to take responsibility which you clearly dont want to do.
So you want Convenience to counteract your Laziness.
Rather than take 3 seconds to check out the HP of your party members you want blizz to spend money and time developing features so that you dont have to do anything?
I mean… i dont know what to say to this. Clearly you play this game solo, but judging by the way you want to treat other wow players i cant say im surprised.
A situation you could have avoided if you were not so lazy, as you referred to above.
You can already put in an ilvl requirement and you can also see an applicants score when you hover over them.
If you are too lazy to use these facilities well you then end up carrying “Deadweight” as you so nicely put it.
How the does that have ANYTHING to do with putting a group together for M+?
You are being ridicules.
Oh, yeah. Sure. It is my fault the host invited them and didn’t see it either because no one expect someone to be that bloody stupid to actually enlist for a +2 with 304 item level when 465 is minimum.
You have to be really out of your mind to think that the person with 304 ilvl is not in the wrong and everyone else is
Surely the dude that brings a metaphorical wooden stick to a a sword fight can’t be in the wrong.
What comes next? You calling the Titan submarine a good product to dive the deep seas?
That’s cool for you. Still a massive difference between a guy being just 60 ilvl apart and a guy (in my group) being almost 200 ilvl apart.
It’s one thing to carry someone who is 60 ilvl below you. And a total different one having someone run around with gear from Shadowlands S2 not even having 14k HP while you yourself have 1 Million HP. The guy legit had 0.014% of MY HP.
If you can’t see how dumb that is as a design decision, then idk what else could even remotely convince you.
Maybe the thought that we could have as well just played the key as 4 players without him dying and still would have been faster as a result.
I honestly have no -ing clue how you even came up with this BS in your mind.
I am asking for something the game shouldn’t allow so easily, while you take the situation and warp it to fit your narrative.
I don’t care if you can carry someone with 60 ilvl below yours with you, which is objectively still fine.
What isn’t fine however is people even being able to start a Mythic+ key with gear from 4-8 seasons or from 1-2 DLCs ago.
And apparently, that difference in numbers is so hard to grasp for you, that I really question your sincerity regarding this topic.
Really makes me think you are that type of person that brings their super annoying friend along at every social meeting that most others dislike. And then calling others jerks for disliking them.
How about I can see it BEFORE I join the group even? That saves ME time and THEM disappointment of me instantly leaving.
The score is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT for this topic.
I really feel like you and Uda BOTH just pick whatever I’m saying out of context and change its meaning.
At no point I said that their mythic score is an issue. My issue is with people being 200 item level below me and 160 ilvl below the minimum requirements for the activity difficulty.
So true, can’t emphasize it more. Even if I started with WoW in TBC, almost 19 years ago, I don’t suffer from nostalgia blindness and keep saying it over and over again - WoW game design and user experience design is extremely outdated.
M+ should not be lazily scaled dungeons with manual group forming. It should be well-designed system with matchmaking, with queue restrictions, with leaver suspensions, with all toolset modern online games have.
does that have ANYTHING to do with putting a group together for M+?