It was designed for small guilds and groups of friends in mind when they brought in mythic raiding and a lot of guilds could not meet the 20 person team needed and back ups so they could have a challenge.
If you do not want issues do the following
guild
friends
community
stop trying to make everything auto queue.
And before anyone says it there is communties that run 24/7 fun and friendly from m0 to m15+
its your choice to pug suck it up if it backfires but the last thing we need is more match making.
I personally donât agree with matchmaking, but almost everything else I can agree with.
Honestly, it baffles me that people at Blizzard didnât come up with leaver penalties that stay active til the timer runs out.
Like, itâs totally fine to leave if the timer runs during a run. But while the timer is going, it makes sense to employ penalties if someone leaves (remember, leaves, not being kicked!).
Anyways, it is astonishing how a certain amount of WoW players take all the flawed systems and never really ask for fixes to those, despite their flaws inviting new problems to exist.
I have no problems of doing all M+ via pugs, being geared and getting portals every season. I just find it sometimes a frustrating experience and believe it could be implemented much better by skilled game designers. M+ is mostly done via pugs, not guilds or communities, so Bliz should have that in mind. Actually, it is very good that you brought suggestions of comfortable M+ for
find guild - with 3rd party services of course, because in-game guild search is bugged and has no use
OR
find community - of course with 3rd party services and communicated in Discord, because in-game tools are not even close to have such good capabilities.
These requirements underline like nothing else, how outdated WoW design is, if comfortable play relies so heavily on 3rd party services and out of the game organization.
In regards of guilds and communities I do agree. Guild chat is perhaps the only thing that is âsomewhatâ used.
WoW would really benefit from a more Discord-like structure in the Guild/Community aspects. Making custom text channels, making custom voice channels, event planner, votes, threads, etc.
Even before squish u could not do that every person normal one would do hc dungeons, m0 even lfr before step into keys. There will always be some trolls and gear check is worth to do it.
Sorry I read shadowlands gear and did not pay attention is host but that was always thing in wow. U always had people wants carry lower gear or score list key or make raid wants for vault and gear.
Issue is currency that drops in lower keys can be used for upgrade higher gear and people most often que for lower keys just to do quick run and some of players exploit that.
Most players dont care is he or she naked just want to do fast run and que for another , to carry one person with high geared people is possible. Game system allowed that and guides as wowhead âHow to boost your scoreâŚinv better peopleâ lol
Blizzard canât do this with the way they and their players view queued PvE content.
Queued PvE content has no expectation of failure. M+ is designed such that if your group cannot hack it, they will not time or even finish. And ilvl gates solve nothing in this regard because we already have people overgearing m0s by 10-15 ilvls saying theyâre impossible.
I agree the UI aspect is outdated btw just saying there is ways to avoid pugs and the communâs that Puny linked are safe and fun and for low and high keys
Iâve tried it back in the days, and it could help while pushing in first month of season. But when it comes to the point when you need just spam M+ for Great Vault or farm crests, I found pugs simply faster. Just applying for every group of needed key level, which already have tank and healer, until invite (usually take less than a minute), then immediately run the dungeon. In community you need to post a call, wait for responses, then wait until everyone would take their toilet, log in into game, finally start doing the dungeonâŚ
Because in combat for me as DD that is useless information?
If I play as a healer, I donât need it either really, because the shifting bars are indicator enough who needs heals first.
Preferences vary. I shouldnât have to change my preferences because of a design flaw in the LFG UI. Hence I am so against checking peoples HP and instead ask for either key limitations or (which is much simpler to introduce) have the LFG UI also draw the average item level of every member in a group in the dungeons section when you hover over a group listing.
Thatâs a one-sided perspective to look at it.
It doesnât matter if a person has the skill or not to beat that content. What however matters is that everyone goes in with a minimum of gear requirements so they definitely canât drag themselves and their group down by being undergeared. Even with key requirements, people would still need to have the skill to play the content to succeed in it.
Objectively nothing would change negatively, because it actually removes badly geared participants that are then forced to gear up first in heroics and mythic 0 to participate. And by then they hopefully also improved their lacking skill too. And if not, they still will fail like before, only with the difference that their lack of gear isnât holding them additionally back.
Itâs useless for you to know if the mob youâre attacking has less hp than another mob in the pull, therefor making swapping off it more efficient because itâll likely die to cleave meaning any single target damage you put into it wasted?
Itâs useless to know that the brackenhide totem that just spawned on last boss has only slightly less hp than the boss itself, allowing you to make the correct decision to ignore it and keep hitting the boss?
Itâs useless to know a mob in the pull youâre engaged with is within execute range so you could throw hammer of wrath at it instead of pressing nothing or a less efficient filler gcd?
When I fight several mobs I donât do single target damage as Paladin⌠You know that, right? I spam Divine Storm because that does the most overall damage. I leave the single target damage to the classes without constant melee AoE for packs.
Every sane person would destroy the totem first anyways as soon as it spawns, so this point is kinda pointless.
If I can execute a mob with hammer of wrath I see that simply by hammer of wrath being usable itself? You are grasping for straws, manâŚ
Ok but divine storm is not the only button you have, you have still got your melee swings, crusader strike or equivalent, the primary target for your wake of ashes, judgement (Though it does cleave, a few targets, you can hedge that one of the hits wonât be useless), blade of justice.
Every sane person kills the boss if the boss has less hp than the add. Same for Bromach, same for Kokia.
For your current target, sure, but not any other mob in the pull unless you manually change target and check if itâs lit up or not.
Alliance/Horce for those that like RP (roll play) and still refuse to play cross-faction.
BiS items or not because there are quite a lot that put inadequate items to bump their ilvl. Or tanks that used to be DPS (and have dps gear) and signed up as tanks for less quew time. Red flag !
Beacon for BH : requirement for last boss in high keys.
Curse/disease/poison dispels for AA, Uld, and BH especially. Important for survival in those dungeons.
Professions : they define the HoI route and BH route. And can help in Uld.
All those are factors that are important to put together a group for M+.
Are they ridiculous to you? Maybe. But not to others.
Nobody ever said that. Nobody in the posts above has ever said that you are incorrect.
The mistake YOU did is not inspecting for 2 seconds to see what the group comp was.
And why should you do it? Because you CARE ! You obviously care.
All people (and myself) are telling you is : Act on your point of views. Dont ask daddy blizz to do it for you.
What difference does it make if he was dead half the time?
A carry is a carry.
And in the case of this discussion : I hovered over his HP. I knew from the very beginning we had a carry.
I accepted the consequences and stayed. And I rolled with it !!! Not once⌠but 3 times !!!
Its what YOU should have done : Hover over HP, and DONT accept the consequences. Simply leave before the key starts.
DONE.
Why is this so difficult?
Its not a design decision ! It a people decision. All the devs do is put a dungeon and some gear. Its up to the player to put the pieces together.
And if you donât want to participate in the process of another player doing that, then its totally fine. LEAVE.
You bumped into the unicorn case. Like I said :
And your answer to that was :
So. Im not the one with âBS in their mindâ. YOU are.
You are generalizing 1 case nobody has seen before. And you try to fit your narrative based on 1 case.
Im not the one here trying to fit narratives. YOU are. Especially because the more extreme the case is, the easier it is to catch.
A person that has 200k HP is SUPER easy to catch !
A person with 1.1M HP but with completely wrong stats that got boosted and does half the dps of a tank is MUCH harder to spot ! Its still a carry !
The fact that you did not see the blatantly obvious signs, and the fact that you want Daddy Blizz to baby-sit you through the process of looking for 2 seconds the party you joinedâŚ
Well⌠yeah⌠its trying to make people fit your narrative. Im sorry.
I use a Talent that allows Judgement and Templar Strikes to hit the targets around the main target as well, so for those it is irrelevant.
Blade of Justice is single target, true, but doesnât matter really because by the time I tab off onto another target with lower HP I could have kept damaging the one I actually need to kill because I mark priority targets always with a keybind for the group. So all the DDs focus on that one anyways.
Wake of Ashes lashes out with the right talents 3 times and burns over time, itâs really not that important to focus it on the lowest HP target.
There isnât so much gain from it as you make it out to be.
And for that you donât need Hp numbers always visible.
You are aware that ingame nameplates with HP bars above the mobs heads are a thing?
Easier done than said. Just spam TAB a few times to check. Oh, so hard! So time consuming!
Thatâs irrelevant for this topic.
Irrelevant to complete a Mythic key in time, unless you play at the range of +9/+15 keys.
Can be asked for via chat. No necessity to put it into an UI, cluttering it.
Can also be asked for it via chat or seen by inspecting talents once the person joins.
Most people donât even utilize them on lower keys. On higher keys I can see them being useful enough so that people actually use those dungeon buffs.
Maybe for you. Most people donât even bother with those âfactorsâ of yours.
I think you gradually overestimate how many actually care about those.
Yeah, cool idea. Have every single player adapt their routine to a minor issue that could be fixed permanently by either updating the UI or implementing a gear requirement for keys.
Definitely a good idea.
He deductes time from the timer by dying? Is that not blatantly obvious, you oh so smart Uda?
And you had an above average team to actually pull that off.
In my run (Halls of Infusion) we were already at the frog boss before anyone but the carry realized he was way too undergeared. Wasnât even communicated beforehand.
And after investing a solid 15 minutes into a key already, why should I leave and waste that time spent when the group is good enough at least to finish the run?
Only major disturbing factor was our âlovelyâ Demon Hunter with 304 item level not doing and constantly dying, dragging a run that would have taken normally 25 minutes down to 43 minutes.
I am mad at such people for wasting others and my time by being too stubborn to gear first.
The only difficult thing here is arguing with you.
For real, if I would have to summarize your and others attitude regarding the problem in an image, it would be this one:
You see this entire problem as âsomething that is possible and everyone should adapt to itâ when the expectation itself is just wrong by definition.
Only for them to come here and complain people leave their key runs?
GOOD JOB MATES! WE WENT FULL CIRCLE! THATâS EXACTLY WHY LEAVERS ARE A PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!
That âfair pointâ was related to âFor either option, a warning sign will mean nothing.â
Thatâs the only fair point you made in my eyes in the entire conversation since this topics creation.
Think about that for a moment.
And as a result of that, I will stop responding to you. You are stuck in your ways, fine. Iâm stuck in my logical ways, fine.
I am done arguing. The last 30 Minutes I could have spent playing a game instead of arguing with YOU.
and constantly dying, dragging a run that would have taken normally 25 minutes down to 43 minutes.