My solution applies to anyone that has this issue.
Not just you personally.
Read it again and try to process.
the problem is that u are not in the position to give a solution. None of us is in that position. Why u act like u are?
Why not?
Whats inherently wrong about me suggesting to build up a social network of like minded people to run keys with?
Theres nothing wrong with that alone. Ofc. If u dont want to get involved in pugging so much, that s the way out.
U just dont get it, when i say: I TRY. Or people try i guess. But for many it s not happening by whatever reason. Than the adressed issue start to get real.
Join chill streak, dungeon dojo, no pressure. All discord communities freely available for everyone. It is basically GG when you know about those. Have fun 
(and there are more, but i dont know about those or i forgot about them)
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I check these out why not. ty.
Chill streak sounds wonderfull.
No it’s not only him. EU is edited by moderator Most players have no clue what is going on. 470geared doing damage like 440 would do at best. Dying with CDs up, not using interrupts stuns or cc. No idea what is going on in dungs, pulling extra packs by mistake, whipping like hell. On US you can run 20s easily on EU cannot do 16…depleting to 12 then eventually ok group to boost the key back to 14 15. All in all he is right. Plugging EU is dead. I suspect that is the case PvP too.
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I have no trouble doing 16s. I have no trouble doing 20s.
I made a similar thread a week ago. I didn’t ask for punishment though because imo it fixes nothing. I pointed out how this game Mode is inherently toxic. I always use my own keys tone and the people who are guests to your keystone do not respect your time. It is not even about you often, they just leave if anyone does a mistake and do not have the awareness often to even realize they waste someones key. Maybe they think its our own fault for inviting whoever made them quit, basically not vetting people good enough.
I played today and got up to 19 for the first time and I never went past it. Even though I am 98 percent sure I could have easily tanked even a 20 or higher with 464ilvl. Because it was not hard. Just accidents happening, someone leaving for no reason, someone dying then leaving, disconnects, someone flaming someone else for their dps then leaving from my key because I said I cannot change their dps and they claimed we boost the person. And ofc sometimes me being stupid like forgetting to repair and doing 19 black rook hold with entirely broken armor wondering why I suddenly cannot use some of my abilities 
It is ridiculous and people in this forum will come into the thread and tell you how it is just a “you” problem when threads like these pop up apparently every single day, numerous times and thats only the number of people bothered enough to go vent somewhere. There are youtube videos about the problem repeating all the same issues with the system that have been pointed out by others before, with ten thousands of comments approving the experience and tens of thousands of likes.
One can only hope next expansion it will be combatted and hopefully not like in league of legends and co, with punishment. Because that achieves nothing but more toxicity/Frustration. I think it cannot be combatted entirely because where there is a ranked system which mythic scores undoubtedly are, there is tocicity. But it you could at least minimize frustration to a managable level for random groups.
Ofcourse all these things are in context of random groups. Which I think is what most players play albeit there being helpful subcommumities to wow that make it less of a random group experience and less toxic. I will definitely try joining such a subcommunity for the rest of the season after my exams.
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About half a million keys are run a week. There are maybe 5? people venting each week about “leavers are meanies” and the usual.
I’m sure there are people that have bad runs that don’t vent but its not a stretch to say the overwhelming majority of people have a decent experience.
You don’t punish your way out of inconsiderate people on the internet, you surround yourselves with like minded people. Be that through communities or building up friends. The OP has run a couple of hundred keys this season, its inconceivable that they couldn’t have added a few people along the way.
So no, its not ridiculous to say its a “you” problem. Reality is probably a bit messier and on the one extreme its “douches on the internet” and on the other its “the OP needs to change something”.
Since one element is completely out of his control, it leaves what is within his control to address.
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I would like to know where you get the number 500k keys from and what it stands for. Does it mean world wide? Does it mean all keys no matter the level? What is the level distribution?
I mean you are making fair points but I still disagree for reasons that I may very well be wrong about and that would be fine. You probably remember I mentioned League of Legends many times, but you could really take any game nowadays. League ranked, COD Ranked, fartnite, pubg, or in this case wow. All the games have implemented some sort of ranked system some sort of elo system even if nor for match making then just for the status. Wow is the least toxic of them in that regard. Because you can choose who you play with.
And still the experience feels so incredibly similar that it is hard to not make comparisons.
Now I made a long prologue for my actual point: I think all these ultra competitive toxic games have one thing in common.
The silent majority of players that play ranked game modes actually do not even know what a decent experience is anymore.
Because they never had a decent experience in first place. They never played anything outside of a toxic ecosystem.
I did, maybe we did. I played CoD MW3 on like unofficial servers, quickscoping for fun etcetera. There was no ranks no leveling even just casual fun. Same with mmorpgs. I played allods, when I was like 14. We did many dungeons and raids and I do not recall any frequent toxicity, because the czhallenge was finishing it. Finish it and you get better gear. Then you go higher level dungeon you finish it you get better gear. Etc. Not “do it faster bro” so you get better gear.
You might say you can still do that as you get loot if untimed or you can raid.
Raid is weekly and not comparable and untimed is disband.
I remember one person claimed timers are not toxic. I disagree, timers are inherently toxic.
How is a thing that counts down numbers ‘toxic’? Do people get angry and throw tantrums and storm out of the house while they’re waiting for the timer on the microwave to count down and say their food is cooked?
No, there’s nothing toxic about a timer. It’s just people either behaving badly because it’s the internet and they don’t have to look at the person they’re upsetting (it happens everywhere online, especially social networks) or people getting angry because other people don’t play the game in the same way as they do.
When I pug a key above +20 (mine or someone else’s), I don’t expect to finish it if it’s over time. There’s no point. You don’t get anything for keys above +20 other than score and completing keys above +20 over time gives less score than completing a +20 in time. Most of the keys I’ve over timed at that level were abandoned amicably - someone says “rip” or " sorry mate it’s dead", we say “ggs” and go our separate ways. No bad feelings. Keys get bricked all the time.
I think most of the problems happen at lower key levels where there is some reward other than score for completing the key over time, but people aren’t clear on what their expectations are before they start. So you get a mixed group of some people who are happy to stay in there an hour or more if that’s how long it takes to finish it, others who are only interested in completing it in time, and then maybe someone who doesn’t mind staying if it goes over time, but only by a few minutes. And this lack of communication is the cause of all the problems. If people were clear on their expectations from a key before they start, most of the problems could be avoided.
no point complaim deal whit it go on relly dont want to waste time just put u own key up ez thet or join key community or join guild does key all time or join discord community for keys
Well, in theory it was supposed to be a joke because all of these games have a timer of sime sort in their main game mode.
But in reality it is a combination of things that create a toxic environment.
- Raider IO and mythic score
People care about their score and record.
People care about whether you finished whatever timed or not. As I said I always use my own key because I would get declined even for 16 keys quite some times just cause I never rolled a dungeon between 7 and 19 (black rrook hold for example) so I do not have a timed finish beyond 7 on it. And an untimed finish on that current level or below is an almost 100 percent decline while no untimed finish could still be called a gamble.
So people rather leave than finish untimed.
If people see you have no timed or even untimed finish, they are also more likely to leave your own key at the first mistake because they immediately think “k no wonder he has no timed finish in this not worth wasting 30 mins of my time”
Because otherwise they have lower chance of getting accepted into groups, they leave often so that has no effect on their chances.
-
Timers
The timers run out. They can cause an untimed finish, thereby a bad record in your history and subsequent slowdown of progress becauase you get accepted into less groups. People disbanding 20 minutes into a dungeon becasue of an arbitrary mistake that makes them think it wont be finished im time, is objectively toxic.
It is wasted life time for no reward at all, everyone just goes next and wastes the next 20 minutes for no reason in particular
Like a rat race. Rat race on a treadmill. You get closer to the edge, then you fall back down, get closer to the edge, fall back down. Up down up down up down.
get up to 26 and back down to 16. Up to 20 back down to 12. Up to 30 back down to 20. By mere bad luck or a bad day of shet happens. How this is not fundamentally toxic when chances are you gain nothing anymore or at the very least do not profit from it im any shape, from lets say a 12 when you usually go into 18 or higher is beyond me. -
Rewards
There are almost no rewards at all. Your reward is rightclicking a big epic looking chest for to loot 50g while you paid 700 for repairs already.
Therefore there is no incentive to risk a poor record (untimed finish) because that is not worth your profit of amazing - 650g -
Key depletion
Finishing untimed but at least FINISHING depletes key. You have just proven you can finish on a given level, yet you get kicked out of the level just like you would if people disbanded group.
I dunno, logic like this is like saying losing a social football game is toxic! Also, why would you even play one because there is no reward!?
Next we’ll be hearing high scores are toxic in pacman. You get close and then back down! Much toxic.
Look, if you don’t like it thats fine, go do something else. Stop trying to change m+ into something it isn’t.
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I don’t know i ran over the course of the last 2 days quite a lot of dungeons in the 17-20 range and I think I had 1 rage quit / dc and we finished the dungeon with 4 man. I don’t really know why that dude even left, because nobody even died.
Anyways all other runs were easy timed. 1 run I had a tank belittling another player with 1 sentence but besides that, nobody basically talked.
if you do a lot of work, it is also more likely the run goes smooth. As dps doing above 250k dps and above 140k ST dps while also doing 100% of affixed and never standing in bad, kicking stuning prio target etc. the run is most likely to be fine. If the healer or tank is just god awful then sure cant do anything but usually my tanks have at least 2.2k rio and thus no more or less what they are doing
Complaining about toxicity on the internet is like complaining that there are fishes in the ocean.
You cant change people. There are always idiots online, and there will always be.
The only way to stop them is to invent a device that lets you send punches to the face via e-mail. Thats the only reason why in the real world you dont see as many douches. They are still there, but the fear of a punch in the face makes them doubt and keeps their mouth shut.
With that said, you guys are ALL biased. Dejarous already explained it perfectly:
Exactly that. ALL the convesations about M+ (leavers, douches, timers, depleates, ect…) are ONLY about the things that are annoying. Never about the things that work.
So until I see people posting in the forums threads like “I had a fantastic run and everything is so cool” I call BS and bias.
I mean sure… I have met my fair share of douches… but atleast im not a hypocrite and I admit that for every idiot I find, 50 other people are nice.
And Dejarous was also on point with this. Its a MASSIVE change if you do simple things like: Inviting someone to your key and saying “welcome, thanks for joining”. Or if you are invited to a key, you say “hello, thanks for the invite”.
And people behave differently if you say GJ after a clean boss kill. Or “nice work team” after a succesfull run. OR, “sorry for the deplete, I did the best I could”. When players see that you did your very best.
Also, people argue for no reason. Like why? Nobody is daddy-wow here and needs to give a course to the Balance Druid about mechanics. Just say: Was a nice run and leave. No need to argue about who is to blame for not timing the key. Its dumb.
So even if you deplete, people will not be such douches if YOU behave properly. And those who dont, just leave and ignore. Let them fight themselves untill they learn their lesson.
So yeah, Dejarous is 100% correct here. It is a “you” problem because there are 100000 things one can do to prevent douches. Including just ignoring them. That is 100% certain.
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I haven’t read all 60 posts here just a few but thought I’d give my 2 cents
I join pug keys, this season i feel lucky, i got my 2k failing maybe 2 keys? Compared to previous seasons this was easy. In season 1 i had groups struggling with anything +10 and 15s felt brutal. I’ve done 2 +16s and failed 1 which was cause healer wasn’t healing chromie on FALL last boss (cant remeber how to spell iriki…)
I have used any off my own keys despite getting into anything over 15 is a pain despite being 472 ilevel.
If you are hosting your own keys i would suggest being a bit more selective on who you add. If you are failing joining other peoples keys then id suggest hosting your own
Imo this season feels easier than previous…
Slight change of topic
What do you get for getting 2.5k rating? Is it worth it? Im only pushing +16s for aspect quests for mythic tier set
Also i prefer raiding hence why i usually stop at 2k
For 2500 you need about +17-18 keys all over the board. And on 17’s you get hero track from the dungeons themselves which upgrade to 483 and from +18 you get Mythic track items in the vault.
I wouldn’t personally call people ‘things’. Toxic environments are created by people, not external factors. We can either choose to behave badly or not. Many people who choose to behave badly online wouldn’t do it in real life because they would see the effects of their behaviour on the other person/people.
It’s as simple as that, and we need to stop making excuses for them by attributing their behaviour to external factors.
When I’m with guildies in a 3/4 man and we have to take pugs to fill the remaining spots, we insta-kick anyone who doesn’t respond to our greetings. The least anyone can do when they join a key is say “hi”.
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