This right here is what I mean. You want to ruin the fun of roguelikes just to be able to get gear into a system that doesn’t need it.
No thanks.
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I mean, if players end up with 150%+ power difference isn’t that a fault on blizzard?
Just like right now where there are traits absolutely useless and horrendous its the fault of blizzard, we should never think that way.
Also, just like you said you can re-run as much as you can, I’ve tried systems like these in hearthstone adventure mode, I think its fun being able to make different builds and I know there can be power differences, I totally agree with that.
Power gains in torghast should never
- Make skill null
- Have something useless
- break the game
To be completely honest, I didn’t watch alot of Torghast videos because I watched a few and got super excited to the point that I didn’t wanna spoil stuff for myself.
I know there is a priest build where you mind control rats, make them multiply then explode them, that is indeed fun.
I think what you said does hold some merit, but at the same time I do believe that not having any reward from Torghast makes it lame, how about gear that is stronger in torghast?
To give a current example, Torghast drops 465 gear ilvl as maxmium, which becomes 485 ilvl inside Torghast, making the gear very useful in torghast? and still pretty nice in other content like M+ and raid.
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If they could add a tower tab to the chest that would be awesome. It could then be tuned appropriately, so that it doesn’t replace any of the other gearing paths, but still provides a slower/lower ilvl to solo players the way horrific visions do now.
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From the videos i’ve seen, all floor bosses can drop loot.
It was just placeholder loot, so idk how powerful it is, but there is loot to be hand.
Probably going to be on the same level as visions. So just a supplemental loot instance.
No different than running dungeons ad infinitum.
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It’s materials for the legendary item crafting system, there’s no actual item pieces inside Torghast. In my runs so far I haven’t come across an actual item, it’s just powers and materials.
I think some of you are vastly underestimating the degree of power difference / scaling that Torghast has, or just haven’t really played a roguelike before. Specifically because
This is not what a roguelike is. Consistency and the ability to do the best with the hand you’re dealt is definitely part of it, but skill is not more important than luck if you only have to win once.
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sounds good in theory.
in Reality however?
What’s your ilvl? What’s your RIO SCORE? link achievement. Link curve. Low dps kick. one wipe leave and so on.
So i do understand your noble goal of making things MMO, but this game can’t go back to how it was anymore. Adding solo stuff won’t kill people.
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Maybe it was a placeholder item for crafting the legendaries and i remember wrong… been a few weeks since i watched some videos.
Edit: Looked at a vid now… it was Placeholder Legendary dust that was in a chest at the end of a floor.
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Well said it’s amazing how many people forget wow was originally designed and marketed for both solo players and players who want to group up together, part of the reason why it’s been so successful - so of course they should cater for the huge amount of solo players in the game
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tbh no, i dont think its a good idea in the slightest, solo content shouldnt be enforced on players for Power progression.
theres a reason why theres so many changes.
visions are a fail realistically. Torghast is ALOT better… and 1 of the reasons is its not entirely attached to power progression.
we dont need another round of visions.
also, theres big differences here realistically… torghast makes u Ridiculously crazy powerful, which removes alot of the difficulty out of the mode… while visions are timed with tons of irritating affixs, which required some level of progression in before alot of players could even do a complete clear… let alone 5 masking them.
they’ve just become another boosting service realistically… and this prevents torghast ever joining that.
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What little i have been testing Torghast in beta i have been getting 3 types of boss/chest loot: orange quality legendary “[PH] lengendary component”, epic quality “[PH] comdemned soul essence” and epic quality “[PH]Torghast boss loot”. Legendary component only has been dropping from end chest but boss loot also from end bosses. Besides those basic mobs and things you trash give you currency you can use to buy more skills (expires on exit, not saveable) and grays and bit of gold. But yeah there is placeholders for “boss loot” dropping from there right now.
I think it’s good thing Torghast drops actual loot, it provides nice gearing option for both solo and group players. I hope it remains the same and that those “boss loot items” are actually usable gear and not turn out to be something useless.
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WoW is not a solo game and should stop catering to solo players. The game is in the sad state that it’s in because it tries to cater to everyone.
god i love statements like that
yesterday i did 12 warfronts - all filled within 3 minutes with 460 + people because of hard req i put.
warfronts are silent winner of this expansion - hated on forums - loved in game.
Oh but it is game that is for solo and group players. Just check your original vanilla box it reads right there on the box.
edit: Just in case you started later here is image of the box.
https://gamefiles.alphacoders.com/boxart/original/back/149-1.jpg
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Yep, and WoW should be as friendly to solo players as Vanilla was. It was really rather great, there. Although I think when they say “play solo” they mean “play without a guild”. It’s not the job of an MMO to focus on the single-player experience. The reason anyone would play an MMO is the “multiplayer online” element. I’d be happy if Blizz makes a single-player WarCraft adventure game… but WoW is multiplayer.
You can explain it to yourself in any way it feels best for you but it doesn’t remove the fact that this is not game for both solo and group players. Just because you want to play with group and do just group content doesn’t mean others want the same. That’s the beauty of MMORPGs, they are worlds where all kind of adventures roam. Multiplayer online element isn’t exclusive for “group content” but it covers living world full of other players to interract, talk and trade with. MMORPGs are combination of multiplayers lounge games and single player adventures, where everyone can play how they wish, concentrate on certain aspects or mix and match them all.
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Yes, meanwhile WoW is an absolute mess where guilds are dead and it’s basically an instanced MMO where you queue for content, because it tries to please everyone.
I am genuinely curious, if they don’t try to please everyone, who should they try and please?
I am not being flippant, I just wonder what others see the game as in comparison to how I see the game 
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Queued content is group content so by all means add more meaningful open world content to game. When it comes to guilds, people i know have all good and very living guilds, alltough i gotta say they are not the kind of people who go around telling other players their game styles are wrong or not part of the game. In other words very pleasant people to be around and hang with on long term.
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Do you think, for example, CoD should try to please people who prefer 3rd person shooters? A game has to have focus, an audience it wants to please. Take FFXIV - they have decided they just want to please PVE players. ArcheAge, which was giant before it was killed by greed, decided it wanted to please world pvp players. Same with Black Desert Online and Lineage 2 - in these games you can’t actually turn PVP off. But once they decide they want to please these players, they can design mechanics around pleasing and encouraging the activity they want to encourage. In ArcheAge for example, a huge portion of the game was… transporting goods, and it was FUN because of the pvp. It encouraged pvp, as you could attack and steal goods, set up ambushes, learn profitable paths, but it also encouraged cooperation, hiring players to guard you while you’re transporting a 12 slot cart from one end of the world to the other. ArcheAge still has like 5 dungeons, because instanced content isn’t the focus. In Lineage 2, the dungeons weren’t instanced at all - you entered with your party, and you saw someone else killing mobs and you wipe them…
WoW on the other hand wants to spread itself too thin to please anyone. Look, mate, I think there should be open world zones that require a group. WoW has some of the best open world design out of any MMO, and it is thrown away because it has to be made beatable by someone who playes by smashing their keyboard into their head.
What behavior does WoW want to encourage? PVP? PVE? Instanced content? Open world? If you take the open world of BFA and just deleted it… what would change? You won’t have braindead WQs to do and that’s about it. You would still camp in Orgrimmar waiting for BGs or for your M+ tank to show up. This is why I think WoW has an identity crisis. All meaningful content is instanced. So why bother with the open world? Just make the game an instanced MMO, they’re very popular. And if you’re going to have the open world, why not make it meaningful? There’s open world raid bosses that just… drop AP and nothing else. It’s sad, mate.
You gave a detailed response and I am not disagreeing with some of what you say, but we know in the past that WoW has always catered to all the things you mentioned and it thrived. We can argue about this, but we know at it’s height WoW was the ‘top’ game and other games struggled to compete.
So if they did concentrate on all the aspects mentioned previously and it worked, what has now changed to make this work not so well?
I think we will disagree on certain aspects, but for me it isn’t that they now cater to all (they always did that) it is the systems that have been put in place that for me killed the old wow I truly loved.
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