Bringing rating twice to dismiss the value of someone’s argument isn’t constructive and name-calling even less so. For transparency, my own accomplishments this expansion include 2× Elite, 3.1k in Blitz after the Arms nerfs, and currently 2.1k in 2v2. I’m happy to debate ideas, but dismissing others based on rating doesn’t help the discussion
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So your best achievement right now is in 2v2 how does it feel running into a ret in that mode? Are you hunting him down or is he just running away from you? What happens if he decides to just stand there after you pop avatar? Can you feel the difference between 2v2 and shuffle?
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2v2 and Shuffle are different environments, agreed. As far as im concerned Ret is not always the main kill target in the 2s format . Speaking of , in 2s, Ret’s strength is amplified because of their durability, self-healing and relentless pressure by overtuned numbers , while in Shuffle you see same stuff plus maybe an increased usage of steed. Against Ret, it’s less about ‘hunting them down’ as it can stand in 20yards and doing the rotation, and more about managing cooldown trades however there is always defensive in a setup , if they just sit through Avatar, it shows how safe they feel in the current tuning. That’s exactly the point: consistency in nerfs across brackets.
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Retris self-healing is non-existent.
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I wouldn’t say Ret’s self-healing is non-existent. Between Eternal Flame lay on hands plus flash of light., instant healing interactions and strong defensives, their survivability is way above most “melee”. No one expects them to heal like a Rsham or holy priest , but they definitely have enough sustain to sit through burst windows and play safe , other issue is Lay on hands is not affected by dampening and Mortal Strike Effects . While it may be QoL change for Holy paladins for Ret becomes “broken” In case you missed : https://www.wowhead.com/spell=156322/eternal-flame
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Rets should get huge nerf, its ridiculous how they can stay this op for 6 season row for 2 expansions without ever properly balanced. Otherwise I wouldnt even care as much but I see they are capable of doing random nerfs on bunch of other specs and even nerf some to the ground but absolute nothing on retribution which has deserved the biggest nerfs for 6 season now.
Absolute ridiculous joke tuning for rated game in game with monthly sub. We are literally paying to play competitive game and they are not doing their one job to keep the competition fair. It’s actually tilting. I know free games that have better and more frequent tuning so whats the problem here, it cant be that they wouldnt get enough money from wow to do their job.
And all bracket statistics are public data even, and I’m 100% certain blizz has their own statistics and they are aware of how much retri is overperforming in PvP but they just are not doing anything about it.
Why is warlocks never buffed and why is warlocks pre nerfed on off season even twice when we got retribution going unnerfed. Are they honestly doing class tuning in a competitive game mode to please the most played specs or what exactly is the logic for these oversights. I think the topic is right, there seem to be some tuning bias.
But they even buffed retri because its worst dps in PVE but they didnt use pve templates so the buff went for PvP aswell so they actually buffed the most broken spec in PvP even more for season 3! Imagine, how can there be monthly sub for this when they clearly are not paid to think 
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worst part is im playing destro lock for fun and if i get 2x ret lobby i know i lose, and whenever these 0 celled nabs are in my team they cant press lay, sac nor bop or even bubble and they die first and whenever im against same people they press their stuff 3x immune everything , i kite they catch up and i just die
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Yea thats the problem with “flavour of the month” rerollers, they play without half keybinds but cos its so overtuned and broken they still perform, so they know how to train warlock but they dont rly know how to support or play with warlock.
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like its so tilt that you have to go through , sheild of vengeance , magic bop, then lay and bubble after , its like they got 3x hp and burst every 25 seconds which is wild , now imagine if its 2x ret and they both do the same, you are basically cooked
1.4 million healing for 3 holy power doesn’t really sound great considering you’re at 17+ million health, flash of light is a cast or a 6 sec cd for 1 million healing.
Eternal flame heals like 8-9% hp and flash of light heals like 5-6%.
Outside of LoH, they don’t really have any healing. They can cast EF or flash of light like 10-12 times or something and then they’re oom.
8+ million shield of Vengeance
Lay On Hands which is a guaranteed full heal with Empyran Ward
30% max HP with Light’s Revocation when using bubble that can be popped even if they have forbearance.
So just by shear numbers you have to chew trough 49~+ mill health on Ret before you can numerically kill him, and that’s just from his very own resources without any external aid.
I think it’s fair to say that their staying power is not bad at all, they can sit in immunity in up to 18 seconds when not purged.
Also dont forget that they can just hammer+ repentance you and heal up…sure, by default its not much BUT Inspired Guard from Paladin Class tree and Gleaming Rays from Herald of the Sun Increase healing along with Wings(which also gives substantial crit chance)
Sure it’s not Shadowlands level of self sustain but it’s still REALLY good.
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Which is nothing when people are getting bursted for 3x of their health pool in a short amount of time. It doesn’t even absorb a single black arrow.
It’s also not self-healing.
On my druid my biggest hit, in arena, is almost 7 million on an instant cast. And you think 8 million shield is something worth mentioning, their immunities and utility like blessing of sanctuary is what saves them, not their shield or healing.
Like, when I was playing my retri I had a teammate that just died through lay on hands when he went low and getting swapped by the priest healer after he went low again. The damage is completely absurd. Had I known he’d get bursted that hard I would have given him immunity instead of lay on hands, that’s the only thing that would’ve saved him, guy lost 3 health pools in way too short time.
The thing is, as soon as Ret, MM, arcane will be nerfed, Destro will be the next target for nerfs. XD)
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Why?
They don’t even seem dangerous unless you let them just chain chaos bolts.
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When there is noone to blame people always point fingers on Destro. And like I said before, Destro on the pure damage scale is on par with Rets and MMs, the only difference you can shut down the Destro unlike these two. And when Rets will be nerfed people will get back to the good old habbit - blame the chaos bolt machine.
And to be honest the pure design of Destro doesn’t leave much room to be properly balanced, because +10% damage on certain spells could mean that Chaos bolt would absolutely anihilate people, and -10% or -20% could mean that destro would shoot a wet noodles at you. Or if blizz decide to buff conflagrate or shadowburn destro will end up being an insta cast menace - again.
destro kinda free to beat rets tho
Can a Paladin hit for 8m-10m in 1 hit?.
Can a ret Paladin chain CC someone indefinatly?.
Can most of rets abilities be dispelled, shattered, stolen, silenced?..
Are rets the only class with pretty much the longest CDS, ranging from 5-10minutes?..
When Shield Of Vengeance is on CD are Paladins squishy?.
Have Rets the worst mobility in the game?.
I rest my 
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No, their mobility is well enough after its rework and most their abilities are also ranged so you dont really kite retri or run from them.
No class can as there is dr, but have you ever seen retris do hoj, repe, searing glare and aoe blind type stuff, nothing wrong in retri cc in current game.
Only if you have mass dispel from priest and the same is for ice block and most things, otherwise few things with normal dispel which not everyone have either.
No cause they have wings constantly and defensives to rotate for days.
No cause they have abundance of other things aswell
I wish you stop defending something which is ultra broken that anyone with an access to public statistics can see.
paladins are the best defensive class. they damp the game to oblivion whilst dealing very good sustain damage and insane amount of cc. burst is also okay, ret toolkit rn is one of the best toolkits for solo carry out of any class, its only missin a mortal strike effect xD
there is a reason why every fury war either play with ret or sp but its ret 90% of the time cuz it makes up for all the squishiness of any ms effect spec.
ret is easily best melee to play across any form of pvp content except 2s xD
i like ret war myself but rn ret is just a bit crazy, i swear glare should be holy only would instantly make it easier to balance ret out and then maybe rebuff sanc and adjust other stuff
i personally dont mind rets in 3s on lock or war or dk but its just so much you have to go through before u can land a kill that the game always becomes damp if enemy plays it properly
had they nerfed ret atleast 3% of overall dmg most of ppl would be happy or atleast increase glare cast time anything instead they nerf sub spec by 15% on 6mil crits and buff hp so the game will be even more damp where rets thrive xd
Why not just open recount after the game and look at the numbers on that broken spell? What burst are you even planning to survive when one button heals him for a million in 16 seconds?
If you check the numbers and see that your rotational ability hits harder than my spender the overtuned spec here is warrior — but funny thing i not crying about it. Why? Because i get that hes a full melee class and my positioning directly affects how much extra damage i eat.
Meanwhile for the local clowns 20 or 30 yards is just a tiny margin of error — because they literally dont know how to move in arena. With 40 yard range available they just stand there face tanking damage thats only supposed to hit from 20