Arcane did alot dmg but you had to ramp it and setup it, no one lets you cast surge either unless u cross cc. So ok now retri and war and all got mages nerfed, mm and retri is still there as brokenly op though. I think its ridiculous how the game is tuned based on majoritys cries to please the most played specs.
As I posted earlier, thereâs about 8 specs that have been always viable/OP for-⌠Light knows how long. Itâs because their fundamentals are OP, and since class design barely changes since Legion, these specs will be OP for years to come, no matter what âtuningâ Blizzard comes up with.
All other specs are only occasionally viable.
The fact is, as I and many others have said, that Ret and MM are broken, and Blizz has currently nerfed everything except Ret and MM.
and rmp somehow still remains top 2-3 comp every season lmao
Sp? Boomy? 
first 2 seasons they were almost unplayable or took twice the effort compared to the vast majority of speccs. Boomy was and still is dead basically if you sneeze on them. Sp was manageable with a feral or sub, i known a single 3s team that played feral/sp/hpala in s2 on NA but beside them sp was almost nonexistent.
Idk what game are you playing since the moment sp is good, dont get me wrong their toolkit is insane, they get nerfed to oblivion for pve reasons.
You are trolling right? Ret is very broken in the hands of someone who does not know how to play it and needs nerfs but mage was on another level before the nerfs all 3 mage specs are still S tier in the hands of a good mage the damage arcane and fire do is ridiculous and frost has been stupid all expansion spamming ice lance.
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Sp is probably better than boomy right now and most of the bots are currently playing BM/SP boomy is still S tier.
And they still not on the bad spot.
Mages not just a class but a community got used that they always in META tier, and now when they have been downgraded to A people started to lose their mind.
Ret is a problem on its own, it has nothing to do with how mages being OP. We cannot drag the conversation about âWhy you people whine about Class X being OP when Class Y is also brokenâ Both Rets and mages deserve a hard nerf, mages probably deserve more because class for a decades was a go to PvP class along with rogues.
Frost mages even before this week buff was good, Fire is not the trash as people claim it to be.
I enjoy fire mages as they put up a realy good fight and not have endless CCs, roots, slows etc⌠I recon like its said above right class in the right hands, fire mage would destroy in pvp⌠
3 mage spec are crap now not even tier A especially frost even with 5% buff and 40% glacial spike not able to do more then 1/3 of the dps of the other classes but people still saying mage is broken when don´t even try to play mage once in arena
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I have mained mage since the end of wotlk and seen it in multiple different variations the current mage design is noob friendly and mage should not even be working around doing dps you set up kills with cc and burst into stuns if you can kill outside of this with mage then its a problem because it still has the potential to do these goes while also ending games on pure damage mage is not trash you just dont know how to play it.
And how is this a bad thing? For years we had 2/3 mage specs being in S tier. And now suddenly when they A or B tier world is stopped and PvP is ruined.
Letâs face it, mages was on the top of food chain for far too long, and now situation changed. It is bad for mages - maybe, it is bad for whole PvP community - definitely no.
Thatâs not how pvp balancing should work and I wouldnât say mage has been top of the food chain either itâs a support spec that is played when one of the meta dps become broken this can be any of the following warrior/lock/rogue/feral mage is always built around these comps because itâs just so well designed for PvP for example thunder can be broken because of busted numbers and overtuning but if warrior is strong and mage numbers are like they are now itâs still going to be a better comp in the right hands because of the cc it can do.
I would also argue the classes that have had the most time in the meta are Druid/warrior/warlock and everytime they are meta is because they are overtuned unlike mage which can be meta from just skill in comps like rmp because the kit for the other 3 is so simple and relies on been broken to win.
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Every time when warlock is in the meta is not result of good design, it is simple overtuning. Look at the history of destro being in meta, it is always just raw damage.
When you fight warlock you donât think about mechanics of the class/spec/hero talents, all you keep in mind is Big Damage if it is a thing for this season for warlock and CC - nothing else, you donât bother about mobility and gateways, about some curses or other thing. You just think about the damage and how to shut down the warlock.
With mages or Warriors you have to keep in mind their mechanics, mobility, Damage, defense mechanics, Ice block timings for mages or CC immunity of war and many more stuff - you are concerned about mechanics of those classes. And if Warriors and mages have their damage being overtuned it adds another layer of complexity to the balancing situation.
Iâm not against the idea of nerfing classes, even warlock that I play in situations where class/spec is broken or overtuned - I shred zero tears when Affli was nerfed at the start of TWW because it was just broken.
Blizz recently nerfed for demo Wild imps by 20% and applied the overall -5% damage nerf for the entire spec. And reasonings behind wild imp nerf was never presented to us, because in PvP imps never at the first place at damage meter, apart from random BGS maybe. And as unfortunate as those nerfs may be, barely any warlock whined on forum about it. But when we talk about real outliners like rets, mages or MMs people start loosing their minds over the potential nerfs.
Thatâs because if demo is meta then it is either too hard to kill or doing too much damage before you can kill them because they can get pets out and port los while they do the work and itâs a terrible design for PvP if a warlock is in the lobby you must train them or you will die to damage I canât think of one other class that makes the game played like this just for existing well maybe DH if your team has a stun to kill them in.
i don´t need mage in tier s just playeable
UDK, and Beast master is the same design. And in terms of UDK and Beast you canât really efficiently control the horde of the minions due to CC immunities.
Demo is easier to CC and shut down unlike them.
Demo is not the only toxic class - Frost mages as an example - never ending slows and roots. DK against any caster with silences paired with interrupts on top of anti magic shell or zone. MMs with high range, inability to interrupt or punish them for casts. Warriors with brain dead mobility and anti CC capabilities. Rets - just because rets exist XD. We can continue for long.
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They are playable, statistics shows it. They are not on the level of bad like outlaw or feral.
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feral can do 3 time more dps then frost mage now and can play against, dk, dh, rogueand ret and they are not deleted by mm hunter u check the statistic yet?
Yet live 5 times less than any mage. Have you tried to do SoloQ or Arenas? Between mages and ferals people no matter what class they are playing is pick feral as the target.
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