Unfair Reward distribution between Horde and Alliance in Warmode

PVP War Mode and World PvP
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Certain items I have like trinkets and rings don’t seem to get upgraded, but the stats are okay on them. 376 avg ilvl is okay for wm, since we have ilvl scaling in pvp. I get 385 items a few times per week without really trying, just from my usual wm activities, they go in the scrapper. Ye you are right, they are easy to get.

In the context of my statement that faction balance is closer, that being the goal of the wm reward system, yes that is a success for aoo and the bonus. If the bonus was still at 30%, that would be a failure of the system. I never said success in terms of Horde being happy. When aoo is down they seem content tho… success!

You are out of line. You have the right to your opinion, as do I. We both have the right to disagree, you don’t have the right to be abusive.

You’ve stated that you don’t like bfa or war mode, impossible for you to be objective on wm. I love wm, so that reduces my objectivity. We both have strong views, and it’s fun to discuss. Neither of us will change the other’s opinion though. Resorting to abuse again just shows your bully nature, and obliterates any point you are trying to make.

WM is what it is. We choose to play a game or game mode. We should do it because we want to. WM on = you accept all consequences to your pixels, and accept the reward system. Just my opinion :smiling_face:

There are fairness issues on both sides. But as long as wm is playable, and it is fun for wpvpers… that’s all that really matters. WM is a platform for random, no rules, anything goes wpvp. You can enjoy it for what it is, faults and all, or hate it and keep on playing anyway.

From your point if view, wm is a failure. From my point of view, wm is a SUCCESS! :+1:

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I would call it a success for the main part. Things like bounties, faction assults and the air drops all are brilliant on warmode. Call to arms works great for getting BOTH sides to fight in that zone (try doing a assult in a region that has Call to arms it goes mad). Im looking forward to what they have planned in 8.2 as if done right it can be like the best parts of WM. As mentioned the only thing I dislike is the AOO quest for multible reasons.

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Stop crying, this has been stated so many times, Call to Arms is a result of a major surge in Horde population and Decline in Alliance population, Call to Arms is not an Alliance biased thing they gave to Alliance just to be nice, Hordes get it too whenever they’re under-represented, screaming Alliance bias for something that is applied for both factions is just ridiculous, a 385 ilvl piece is beyond stupid to whine over as you can get higher ilvl pieces doing TImewalking or even a regular Mythic dungeon, its sole purpose is to enought more people from the unbalanced faction to participate in scaling the PVP more equally, yet the Horde is DOMINATING despite of that quest, you’d be retarded to implement a reward system for BOTH factions that is solely designed to encourage the lesser faction to populate itself, what’s the point of having it at all if you gonna reward the populated side to turn on their PVP too despite already representing 90% of the PVP cycle, crybabies like you scream and cry over Alliance get 1 item a week that only gearers need and will be replaced the following days/week if they remotely know how to play the game in the first place, Horde are dominating the WPvP even with the Alliance’s Call to Arms, giving the Horde the call to arms would just been plain retarded.

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Ofc. Who am I to contradict you that a 380-385 ring/trinket is worst than a 360 one? Right? What i wonder, if 360 ilvl items are so good, why did Blizzard added 385 ilvl items?

They are so easy to get, that you on purpose stay on 379 ilvl just to proove us how useless thoose items are. Now I understand your ideea. You are brilliant. A genius.

But how you know that faction balance is or isnt closer? If the stats/numbers are hidden by Blizzard? How can we trust what a guy from Blizz says? We take it as a truth? What would happen if the same guy comes and say: “Ok, it seems horde is outbalanced by the alliance, therefor we give them a full set of mythic 420 for each horde player”. Then you would say that you agree that guy’s statement and you would say: " it was a success" ? You still cant realise that actions cant be taken if not real proof and reasons are brought. And untill now, the only thing we got is a guy’s statement saying things without showing numbers/stats. Its like that thing when they choosed Junckers as EU president, but he was the only candidate…

No, i wasnt out of line. I brought you numerous arguments, with normal logic, yet you rejected them all, you didnt even tried to see the big picture and you kept your ideea. But what made me use that word, was the fact that you kept your ideea using the same arguments: “turn off WM” , " success" and “fun” ; without bringing something logical and proof.
So for that i wont apologize and i still think you are as i described you above. You prooved it well, dont worry.

Impossible for me to be objective? Are you serios? I was as objective and reasonable possible a person can be. Thatswhy i brought solutions to bring a better balance. Yet my solutions where not good for you, because alliance would loose thoose “freebies” and bonuses (wich btw horde also would). But to make it a fair wpvp, i think my solutions where the best. Anyway, this is the only mmorpg that combines PVP rewards with PVE rewards. Thats stupid. 0 logic. Why to do that?

Its not resorting to abuse. Describing someone with that word is not a bully or insult. Is a reality. A truth. A fact that few can accept. If you woulded be reasonable to bring logical and normal arguments to our contradiction, i wouldnt use that word. But when you repeat in 30+ comments “its a success” , without anything else to add, mate…what you expect? To call you genius and propose to Blizzard to hire you as PVP chief developer? Develop your argumentation skills, read books, open your eyes, see the bigger picture. Dont see only your point of view as a player that does only one thing. This game was done for everyone, not only for you.

Fairness issues on both sides? Really? From my point of view, there is one side preffered in this game. Lets see some differences:
-Boralus: everything you need you have at a distance of 30 sec of each ( vendor, mythic chest, raid entrance,scrapper, PVP quartermaster,etc).
-Zuldazar: everything is at a distance of minim 1,5-2 min away. And if by bad luck you forget something, you waste another 4 min to go back and return to initial point.
-zones: Kul Tiras continent has a better theme, music, landscape,enviroment.
-WM: bonus 30% + AOO quest
…and so on…shall i continue?

I didnt said that WM is a failure. I said the unfair rewards/bonuses distribution between factions is a failure. Another example that the word used to describe you was the perfect word to embody your logic. You dont even understand my request, yet you think you know about what we speak here. Mate, go sleep, dont involve in topics that clearly are above your intelligence.

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You say the 3rd party stats sites are more reliable than Blizz’s in game 15% stat… but realmpop, etc. get their data and output pop estimates via the WoW API… so why would you believe the Blizz API data, but not the Blizz 15% in game stat… doesn’t make sense.

I got a 385 trinket yesterday, was an upgrade so took it. I usually get azerite armor or something, already have the same armor. Or I get a ring, and can’t equip it in other slot. Point is, 385 items are plentiful, no reason to care if Alliance get an extra 385 item every 3 weeks, it doesn’t make any difference. Plus, item level is scaled, don’t matter.

And ye, if you hate wm and bfa… not going to be objective.

This is a non issue :+1:

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I think they shouid buff those items to the item level of Mythic raiding titanforged.

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What Blizz’s in game 15% stat? I dont get it…Where is displayed and what this 15% means? It means that horde is numerous with 15% more than alliance? It means what?

Well if it doesnt make any difference, you agree with permanent removal of AOO quest? Because untill now, you where totally against it.

And again you turn my arguments into something total different. Above i said and i repeat again: i dont hate or dislike WM or BFA. I disliked some of the things implemented in the game,aka this expansion, but this doesnt mean i hate the expansion as a whole.

Again you prooved that i am right. The only thing you do on this forum is to twist others people comments and provoke them as much you can.

I agree. Alliance deserves a full titanforged mythic set (ofc, bis items only). This way your alliance can finally be competitive in PVP and PVE (taking in consideration that the last world first you done it almost 10 years ago…hihihi).

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your thinking of against over whelming odds, call to arms is the one both sides get.

also its back up again… sigh more proof it isnt working.

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AOO up again today?

Geeez…

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If you want us to stop getting it maybe you should faction change?

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At time of writing that, Alliance had 15% wm outnumbered bonus. This is an indicator of faction balance closeness in wm, not a percent of the outnumbered by. If the outnumbered bonus is at 30%, like when the outnumber bonus started, that means a bigger gap in faction balance. If at 20%, a closer gap. When at 15%, could be reasonably close faction balance but not equal. We don’t know the actual closeness, it’s an indicator, which is all we need.

The outnumbered bonus looks like it will cycle between 15% and 20%. At 20% Aliance have aoo quest. The extra gank parties come out for a week. Then presumably back to 15% and no aoo.

Horde with wm on outnumber Alliance wm on. Regardless of the bonus stats accuracy, it’s the best stat we have for wm faction balance.

It doesn’t make any difference to fairness was my point.

The 385 items are plentiful, and although low ilvl, good enough for most wpvp. Like I said, ilvl is scaled in pvp combat. Add in the fact that the aoo item is not even every week, makes the extra item a non issue. Alliance get an extra item now and again, Horde have more wm players, fair enough.

The aoo quest is a mechanism to reduce excess Horde pve’ers. We go through aoo cycles to help achieve that. If faction balance never happens, at least it is closer, and aoo makes for interesting conflict.

I thought I saw one of your comments saying how rubbish bfa and wm is, maybe in another post talking about hating bfa and wm. Maybe was someone else. Apologies if I got it wrong.

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To be expected. When I went to do A Call To Arms in Voldun last week there literally was no other option but to just camp the flightpath exits for 30 min. Alliance presence anywhere else was close to nonexistent. Lots of Horde players though.

So, can we say blizzards plan of balancing the numbers to create a healthy Warmode has failed monumentally, or is it too soon?

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odd, when I did call to arms last week during a invasion there was plenty of both sides in voldun though the problem of alliance just not wanting to do Wpvp seems to be the main issue.
I think its clear now that AOO is not the answer as all it did was bring over Pver alliance zergers who then leave afterwards and act moraly justified. While at the same point screwing up the risk reward ratio for alliance. The solution should be to make War mode more fun for both sides and I hope what was talked about in 8.2 will bring that cause the surge you get with air drops, bounties and faction assults is alot more fun than a one faction kill quest.

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Note how it’s also only complaining about Alliance as a Horde for the 1 benefit Alliance get, nevermind that 95% of the mythic raiders are Hordes, nevermind that 85% of the PVP ladder are Hordes, it’s that 1 level 385 piece, because aparently killing a world boss for 400 ilvl is balanced while they still get it, nevermind the fact alliance get the buff only because they’re heavily outnumbered, nevermind the fact most people still spend hours doing the quest simply because there are too many Hordes to concider it an “easy item grab” … Nevermind the fact i got a 410 gloves from Mythic +0 last night… It’s only unfair because it’s the ONE thing that benefits the Alliance over the Hordes despite Hordes would get the same treatment if the Alliance were the majority.

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It could also be an issue that the amount of horde presence are so large you end up in a horde dominated shard to the point there’s basicly no alliance around. Even when WM was at 30% bonus I could end up in shards with no alloance presence even at Assualt points while playing my Goblin. That was during a time when many people in capital cities constantly complained in chat about alliance raids ganking at the assualt i did just moments ago.

There have also been times when I’ve played my alliance chars that i end up in shards with no Horde Presence or Massive Horde Presence with no alliances around etc.

Usually when you end up having fun in some equal shard thou and you start to fight smal sized skirmishes togheter and against random people, It’s unfortunately the horde who start to ruin it for everyone. While i play horde, someone close to me assemble a raid group to crush those few alliance making it boring as f… when i play alliance a horde raid group shows up that usually either A; sit on your corpses or B; ride between two points killing everyone 20v1. Viva La Group tool… :face_vomiting:

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Shard faction balance is working fine, except for overflow shards. It’s just luck of the draw the visible faction balance on the particular wm shard you happen to be on. Player distribution, lfg effect, and unfortunately overflow shards with zero opponents. One player sees one thing, another player sees another. But all can simply go to another shard if no enemies. If too many enemies… it’s a multiplayer game, not a solo game, player controls what happens.

Region faction balance is a separate issue, that’s what aoo is for. The issue with region faction imbalance, is that more overflow shards are required. Those are bad, bringing faction balance closer in region is the fix. Aoo can make it happen, wm is going through a rebalance process. Will take time.

Even if region balance never achieved, aoo increases conflict, good for wm. Don’t care if players turn wm off after aoo, they killed when it was on. Don’t care about meaningless free item, 385’s are everywhere. With aoo, conflict is increased for a time, a flare up. Keeps things interesting. Those that don’t actually care about wm and are the cause of region outnumbering, will hopefuly eventually wm off. The excess Horde pve’ers. This is helped along by aoo, regardless of Alli turning wm off when no aoo. It’s a process, in progress, region balance can improve, give it time. WM is even better in 8.1.5, looking forward to 8.2 changes!

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Hello War Mode people! What did I miss? ohh, I see, few heated threads, some interesting discussions and a whole lot of stupid. I’m glad I missed the later one. Anyway, on topic.

Current bonus system and quest are working - week to week switching is a clear sign of that. Does it work as intended - yes. Does is do a good job for actual WPvP - no, imo. Do I like it - hell no. But overall - system is successful for what it does - “fluctuating” population.

I never really cared about faction balance, it was fine for me in what’s now called “Hordemode era”, it’s fine now. What I care about is my time and what I get from it. Yes, Fun is the most important part of playing a game, but it is a mmoRPG, so character progression is a big part of Fun and Enjoyment, and biggest part of character progression in WoW is gear.

With that said, War Mode by definition is a game-mode that enables PvP in the open world. PvP. So it must be oriented for players who at least don’t mind PvP interactions.

Current system tries to incentivise everyone to enable War Mode by giving % bonus for rewards that everybody needs (to some extent).

And that is the main flaw (imo) of this system - it is quite stupid to expect players who don’t like PvP to participate in it just because you put some PvE/general % bonus. Hardcore grinders and greedy players will just get the bonus and/or go whine on forums, and that’s it.

Gear on the other side - completely different story. Doesn’t matter if player likes PvE or PvP - they’ll jump for every easy gear they can, if not for base ilvl, then for another chance at Titanforged/Socket. Current system tries to use it to balance WM population, but what it doesn’t do is - it doesn’t account for what type of players or players with what intent are using it.

From talking to different PvE players over the course of the last month, the result of current system is:

  • Reset day, they enable WM to join a group and do Call to Arms and AOO if available. Turn it off as soon as finished.
  • Over the week, turn WM on for Assault, rush through quests, finish it, turn it off.
  • Try to be fast and also loot Supply chest for additional conquest.
  • If Assault is camped by Horde, they just go for M+ and the back to Assault, or shard-jump.
  • Do a weekly with conquest reward.
  • When 500 conquest reached, stop caring about War Mode and wait for chest next week.

So it’s just a PvE farm.
They don’t PvP, because if they want to PvP they go for BGs that have a chance of item drop for scrapper/mats or TF upgrade chance, plus some gold/marks/mats from boxes. It’s more convenient to queue than to deal with the hustle of War Mode.

That’s how all PvE and a few Rated PvP players I talked to are playing the game right now, and tbh, I understand where are they coming from.

What is the most laughable about this farm, is that PvE players are more efficient in getting rewards from it than players who actually do WPvP.

So system forces out Horde PvE players from War Mode, brings Alliance PvE players in War Mode and promotes the same “PvE-rush-rush-rush” farm. Yeah, I don’t like it.

One player told me that his guild, on weeks without AOO, never turn War Mode on and does all conquest farm with BGs/Weekly. Whole guild. And he knows that other guilds are doing the same. So players are just abusing the system to the fullest. This is ridiculous.

Much better solution ( IMO ) would be:

  • Add PvP vendors (yes! we are able to find them!) and make Conquest into a currency.
  • Remove current bonus and AOO.
  • Add bonus for outnumbered faction only for Conquest points amount, and only from WPvP activities, with similar to current % scaling.
  • Vendors sell all PvP gear (not just Azerite) for all ilvl ranges with higher ilvl = higher price.
  • Rated players get discounts on gear and can get higher ilvl gear cheaper, depends on rating.
  • Transform current conquest bar from weekly cap into just a meter to qualify for a PvP chest and additional PvP quest for the next week (with item and conquest as a reward). Quest can be 25 kills or additional Call to Arms for another zone…
  • Make all PvP activities ( including all sources - old and future new ) that reward Conquest give full amount on a first completion of the day, and small amount on each repeat ( similar to current random BGs ). So there is an incentive to keep hunting bounties/air drops, etc.
  • Give incentive for bounties to stay, like each KB as a bounty gives you an “ear” and you can turn these “ears” for additional conquest points.

I think this approach will be oriented more on players who actually play in War Mode, and less on players who just turn it on/off when convenient for rewards.

And it’ll make whole PvP-gearing on par with PvE-gearing - the more time you put into activity the more you can get from it, just like with M+. But it’ll still be balanced, since you can’t do M+ and PvP at the same time. Players who put more time and effort in PvP (both instanced and WPvP) can progress with their respective gear and eventually further, just like PvE players can do with M+.

Regional / Normal / RP faction balance.

I think in itself it’s not a problem - current bonus system, as described above, is what makes it into a problem.

But fact is still a fact - if you are a player of a faction with bigger numbers in War Mode you can get Faster and more reinforcements with LFG. It’s a basic math.

War Mode and everything in it doesn’t care about overall Regional / Normal / RP population. System accounts only for players / population with War Mode ON. And it would be … common sense.

About sharding.

Current system always tries to balance each shard into perfect 50% vs 50%. Let’s assume we are on that perfect shard. And we even don’t care which side got more PvP players and which more PvE players in it.

I get ganked on a FP by a party/raid, so I want to take revenge and create LFG, transform it into raid, got a lot of players. Other players from my faction are doing the same, or just WQ with some boss. So shard got a huge influx of players from one faction. What system should do in this case?

Remove my raid or enemy raid from the shard to another one, and deny me/other any possibility to get my revenge?

Remove other players somewhere on this shard who might be playing with their friends, or on their way to our fight, etc… ?

Add players to another side even if shard is already at it’s capacity, and create more lag for everybody?

Somehow detect and move players from both faction raids into their own shard? So it basically has to constantly run this detection-moving algorithm for every player in every shard in addition to current match-making… It would require insane amount of resources = insane amount of lag.

Somehow detect PvErs and PvPers and move them on separate shards? Yeah, I would want to see that magic, ohh wai - WM off is already there.

Or better move all solo players to their own shard, all in party to a shard for parties, all in raids to a shard with raids… It would definitely be very natural flow of open world freedom…

What else?

You see, there is not really any good solutions for this problem. I think that how system currently works is probably the best it could be, in terms of what it does, and not how good or efficiently it does it. Plus, I wouldn’t want any more conditions for current match-making system to check, because it lags bad enough as it is.

I always see the meme “I was playing on my shaman the other day …” every time I read this in few of your posts, haha

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Well I do play both faction and RP rather frequently. A true double agent in a sense and I’m alays WM:On on all my characters… which also lead to a funny dynamic were my alliance guild always try to hunt me down(seeing which zone I’m in trought battle tag). It’s acctually hillarious inmany ways while on discord. :rofl:

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I don’t do rated PvP on my DH (not my style anyhow I liked the old support ret play the best in arena) but do raid HC and mythic, every 385 I got this season (unless it was a trinket or ring with good stats which I keep for TW) has been given to the scrapper immetdiatly! And AOO Can only drop azerite, weapon or armor pieces so there are no trinkets nor rings to gain. So what are the chances I get anything usefull? 0.1%? So I gain 7-8 mat pieces, 50 CP towards the weekly goal and 1k azerite. I feel so spoiled…

Edit: That 1K Azerite is also just compensation I stopped doing islands and 4 HCs give 900 azerite and a mission. So I’m making a net loss by doing AOO instead of 4 HC IEs… Yet they scream for it being unfair.

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Yes they’ll need to be increasing the item levels of the items from it to make it feel like we get buffed.