Me, who clung on as the meme tier healer for literal years.
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Then if you are so much into optimizing you should simply shut up and reroll to whatever is meta.
You cant expect the spec you like to always have the spotlight, so if optimization is where fun lies for you, be ready to change characters as well.
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mmm I disagree.
Just do some M+ next week. We will see that CC of yours if its valuable or not⌠
Poor guy, i guess we´ll never see this player again.
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WoW is like a castle of bricks on strong foundations into which more castle is being added, but itâs made of sand. The castle is outgrowing these foundations and leaning on its own new foundation, also made of sand, that frequently result in not only the part of the castle over the sand foundation collapsing, but more of it on the strong foundations, and sometimes it even pulls parts the old brick castle with it.
We now stand upon a ruin, the last remaining traces of the old castle slowly eroding, and we forget why we played in the first place, so that a concern such as 10% class imbalance completely destroys the game for us.
Why do we play WoW? Describe it. Justify it.
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WoW is like a bulding on top of turtle size of mountain in morgan freemanâs apratments on the moon.
Or something, do i sound smart by making vague analogies?
something something addiction something something invested time something something other drama bullcrap.
Tis fun to play this game, thatâs it
projecting
I donât discriminate specs, i always prioritize ilvl and mythic score above class viabilty, one time i had full dh group apart from me and it gone down quite badly.
Itâs very much community-wide skill issue, unless you are doing keys higher than 20 whatâs the point of prioritizing classes over experience
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I think the answer to that will vary as much as we all are somewhat different individually 
. And that will most likely also decide how much we are happy, or unhappy with the current game. People who enjoy it, genuinely, have no need to justify it for themselves. It does what it says on the box for them.
The reasons to be unhappy are quite varied too I think. And when you (general you) ask yourself the question how you can justify this usage of your precious time, I actually think you should take a step back and go do something else. Otherwise you are making yourself unhappy. When Iâve felt that way I have taken breaks in the past, and I will no doubt again in the future.
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I think the game will be better over time 
I play only games on xbox now, and stop pc gaming. I realised after sleeping a night over it that all these frustrations are caused by the game trying to please competitive, casual, etc. alike. As a purely casual game itâs not good enough, and as a competitive game the things I mentionned frustrate me a lot.
For me I think swapping to console to play games more laid back and single player or actually with irl friends I have on consoles is healthier.
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Iâm sorry it was so difficult to understand.
Letâs try it this way:
- Blizzard made a game, and it was great with a strong design and direction, but it was very incomplete
- Blizzard added to this game, and it was getting better
- Some new people took over, and they either didnât know about this direction or actively ignored it, creating something entirely different. (The new foundations, they arenât solid, but the old game is still there as well)
- Over time, these new people will add more and more broken content on top of the working systems and more broken systems, and sometimes things break so badly that the baby is thrown out with the bathwater.
- This will continue on until the entire original design is corroded away and replaced with something far less interesting unless someone heads in there and tells them to knock it off.
I completely agree with all of this - but the point I wanted to make is that most people, I would strongly argue, came to WoW because they heard about this idea of exploring the world of the Warcraft franchise and doing so in a persistent online world.
So when you look at the modern end-game ⌠does it do that? No, it does not do that.
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If you want to sound smart and convincing - donât use analogies, they donât work in any somewhat serious discussion, they are not valid as an argument.
bias and your opinion, i remember you arguing that zaralek must be designed as a dark place, which is baffling and suggested that you see wow as something akin to immersive sim genre or old rpgs like ultima
WotLK is when we started see current retail and treadmill style gameplay forming, basically in core nothing changed
strawman is very healthy argument
Sure, but what does it mean⌠class gameplay? if someone touches current rogue and warlock and transform it into braindead classic version i quit wow
And this concludes idiotic analogy with sand castle, whatever
vague nonsense, define the word âexploringâ for starters, how can you achieve it and how wow achieved it in the past, how leveling progression can be considered âexploringâ, what type of âexplorationâ you do when 95% of your quests is combat oriented quests, iâd argue with this line of thought that you are busy exploring in new expacs too - you go to unkown location, see new things that you never seen before, loot some hidden stashes, beat up new mobs, reveal grey areas on the map, exactly same things that you do in classic but without tedium and with much better questing pace and level design
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True they really messed up this season from a casual perspective. Aug was not as toxic BM and dh
I can 100% agree with you, the fact the devs keep making mechanic and affixes that not everyone or only a single person can deal with is just making pugging more and more frustrating and annoying.
The one and only ways i find enjoyment of m+ and raiding is if i do with a full premade or a guild or friends, the game doesnt feel like an mmo rpg anymore as you are pushed to play co-op.
They are even ruining the rpg aspect by making tier that forces us to use specific talents in the talent tree, and by doing so completly making the whole talent tree not a talent tree anymore!
I understand this completely, me and the husband set up all our consoles to the living room TV and we play WoW less now and play games in the living room of an evening to chill out, we recently went through the Yakuza series and are now on Like a Dragon Gaiden, Seriously great fun games.
Blizzard probably be like:
âControl must be maintained. There must always be⌠a Meta.â
I would love to see MS take on this. I am sure they going to put and end to it as it does not really bode well for the game. I am going to watch this space.
Everybodyâs heard of the idea of foundations of sand and sand castles as a metaphor. I wasnât âtrying to sound smartâ.
Caves being dark is baffling?!
I should note of course, that dark != unable to see anything.
It should be lit up by the lava and the crystals and the torches and things we ride around with or something. The problem is itâs lit up by nothing - thereâs just light for no reason. It looks like itâs daylight down there.
Itâs like a snowball. It started in WotLK but rolls bigger and bigger over time.
Oh no, I used another analogy.
Itâs not a strawman, I have it straight from two senior gameplay designers of the original game. One of them even called Ghostcrawler a goblin that would ruin everything, no joke. His words not mine.
Tons of things. You break the game down into the four features on the back of the original game box - combat, world, community, and content. Combat has declined only slightly due to readability issues and balance issues created by bad burrowed power systems, but is in many ways better as well, content has mostly been keeping pace save a few moments in time, but world and community is absolutely destroyed.
So you did understand it?
Exploring means to find something you havenât seen before. Travelling through things that you havenât seen before to learn about them.
So basically, when WoW turns away from drip-feeding ever more challenging content you must play your way towards seeing and then play through, and over to infinitely scaling identical content like M+, they lost an important aspect of the original game.
WoW achieved it by using levels and having each area have a certain difficulty. You do not go there before you are ready, then you play it, and then you are done with it. Smaller areas that are harder than the surrounding areas can be included to provide variety in end-game.
As soon as you say âoh just repeat this same thing on 25 difficulty levels indefinitelyâ combined with âwe decide when the content is relevant and when it is not, not the playerâs progressionâ youâve lost a core part of WoWâs gameplay loop.
Specifically, you lost the reward loop - for you see, WoWâs rewards arenât actually gear, it is content. Millions of players, recognising this subconsciously and sometimes even consciously, quit when they run into the modern end-game for this reason.
I couldnât care less what some game designer get taught in theory by a crash course or weird non-sense game design school. Itâs not a real science anyway, but rather just an senseless application of statistical analysis where they seem to draw false conclusions, probably due to lack of experience or knowledge. I know more about games than most of their workforce anyway I think. Some of them clearly have no clue what theyâre doing, and itâs very transparent. They even fail at basic math, when it comes to designing classes and they donât manage to pull off their design intentions often. They just seem to follow some random macro rules in the industry with seemingly very low understanding for their product. I understand, they probably get rushed hard, but thatâs not really my problem in the end. Thatâs their issue to fix, if their workers need more time.
It doesnât really feel like the game is made with passion, but rather just them trying to do follow a blueprint given by their upper managment with low understanding. Iâve seen some of their interviews and their reasoning often falls apart logically and also based on my own personal experience. Sure, they made a lot of good changes in TWW, but how much is it worth as their own deed, if the community has been howling for them forever?
They likely taught them in some game development course or school that itâs good game design to have a clear meta, or to overbuff new additions to a game.
â Might be true in a Moba or a p2w gatcha game, so people buy the new stuff, but their logic is non-sense in a mmorpg about long term character progression, where people are forced to choose with whom they play
They appear to be so devoid of logic, it almost makes me angry that I played so much, but moving on and playing other games is the best decision I could do. Wow is not good enough to be the only game someone plays imo.
Now that reads quite like the prime example of âTell me about your ego without telling me about your egoââŚ
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Me certainly not, I donât have this metaphor in my native language, this metaphor canât be applied to video game development if you want to make convincing argument
Turn down your in game brightness lol.
Itâs not an analogy, snowball effect is a common term, but sand castle is some tomfoolery when used to describe development process, too much specifics that donât match together therefore make analogy not valid. Irrelevant. Snowball is a much more abstract term. Analogies donât work because logically you canât compare to abstractly similar entities, if something doesnât apply to other thing, like castle being a building and wow being a video game - it makes it simply irrelevant.
Oh, so those buffons that were responsible for class design in vanilla and TBC call ghostcrawler a goblin who would ruin everything? Well maybe itâs right call to kick them out of workplace so they would never interact with it in a first place, because apparently they call names on their colleagues.
Embarrassing, truly embarrassing
What caused destruction?
What if I seen it before
We do it every new expac
Itâs outdated game design and made only for sole reason of wasting your time, for example elden ring has much more strong âexploringâ element than vanilla wow would ever be but it doesnât artificially gate you from zones until you grind enough to be able to enter it, well yes you can accidently enter caelid and be humiliated but you can still manage to go through it, level up faster, and there will be no quests gated by level.
No exploration focused game gates you out of its content by some power number. Deus ex games donât do it, Zelda doesnât do it, no manâs sky, NONE of them have precedent of it. Moreso, level gating zone actually dillutes exploring element because instead of discovery factor you just go to zone with appropriate to you level number, you are guided by numbers under zoneâs name
You arenât repeating same things in different difficulties, moreso you are much more engaged in gameplay in raids than you would ever be in open world, usually people drop MMOs on leveling and stick around if they managed to get to endgame part, my friends literally think that wow is game about spamming 1-2 buttons to beat up boss that barely does anything, which is true for leveling (and classic in a sense) but completely wrong for endgame
This gameplay loop is here since TBC, since concept of expansion for mmo rpg appeared.
Unless you exclude linear progression factor from mmorpg you canât make everything matter all the time, and you canât realistically update every new game mode, itâs ridiculous from live service game standpoint.