Unplayable Guardian in PVP

PVP Battlegrounds
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Since DF guardian were nerfed so bad that they become useless in all PvP aspects, while you cannot kill a similarly pvp geared player (impossible due to the low damage) and still get killed by them once you run out of CDs, pvp classes which use magical attacks were able to bring a pvp tank in matter of seconds since the class had low defence against magical attacks, our only hopes were to find a newbie pvp player who still have no pvp gears to land your first kill. most of guardian player left the class due to Blizzard developers ignored this class while made playable only in PVE.
The official pvp leadboards showed the Guardian class scoring the lowest rating in all aspects of pvp, end game gears become unobtainable for this class. until end of expansion where few players which you can count by hand from the whole world (6-8 players) were able to hit over 2k with luck and getting carried by other classes.
this lead me and many other players to stop playing wow.
With the coming of RBG we hoped blizzard owned now by MS will rethink their strategy and bring the guardian back to their feet, after 2 years of break from wow and the launch of WW i activated my subscription and came back to the game hoping RBG will make the class playable in PVP.
Well guess what, they made Guardian a GOD in PVE. between each boss, I can pull the whole instance mobs with the boss it self in heroic and require 0 heal from a healer, i can self heal and let the dps do the kills. But in PVP Guardian does no damage and cant even self heal , with 4000k HP outside of bear form can pop HP to 8000k in bear form, Guardian cant even land a single kill on a 2000k hp super low geared player, you cant self heal or reduce the damage taken, you cant bring the player HP less than 80%, the tank get killed both in pvp word and BGs by any low ungeared player.
Now the big fun start, similarly geared player or even a bit less geared, a Guardian cannot bring their health down 100% due to their self defence and heals, dps are tankier than a Guardian, you will not stay alive after the 1st 30 seconds of popping all your strong defence CDs and Self heal, you will have to spend all your rage in Ironfur and FR to bring your HP back Guardian of Ursoc is active, still you cannot full heal due to the strong damage you are receiving and cannot dps since u need to keep spamming Ironfur and FR to stay alive. Once Guardian of Ursoc then congratulation, you survived 30 sec and now count 3 seconds to find your self at the nearest GY.

This class is really broken, useless and certainly become stressing and depressing to play, a new tree that provide 0 damage and 0 defence in PVP, a talent called Light of Elune that procs one a day.

Time lo cancel the subscription and leave this game again, maybe in 2050 when the actual developers retire and you have new one who actually play the game we may see some changes.

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Im sorry but i dont think you´ll find much sympathy. The absurdly big majority of the PvP playerbase dont want tanks to be even remotely viable in PvP because everytime they are they are absurdly toxic.

Tank spec whenever its viable promotes the most degenerate playstyle of forgiving all your mistakes n auto winning every single fight. Chances are you never learned how to actually PvP because you either abused it whenever its op or unsub everytime its not. Tanks were never designed with PvP in mind in the first place, flag carrying in BG´s is not a dedicated role as it can be performed by anyone.

Tank players make up a very tiny portion of the playerbase and their fun exclusively comes at the expense of the extreme majority. Blizz reworked tanks in preparation of TWW. You´re still tanky during CD windows as was intended, you just dont have two built in pocket healers that are immune to CC. What part of tank suggests you should have extreme self sustain?

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For your word to be taken real, you need to provide us Data, without data I can build a castle on top of mount Everests with my mouth, still it will never exists in reality.
When players were complaining about guardians in Shadowland, all started due to solo shuffle. still official solo shuffle leadboard showed the following:

Before the nerf:
Tanks
Pro players rating 2k-2.5k
Average players rating 1.4k-1.8k
Newbies rating 800-1.4k

Other classes
Pro players rating 2.5k-3.2k Thousands of them
average players rating 2k-2.5k
Newbies rating 1.5k-2k

After the nerf (end of season 4 and only happened because tanks faced last newbies and pro stopped pvp as they reached the max)

Tanks
Pro players rating: 1.8k-2.3k , Only 8 among them in the entire world they were able to reach the 2k bracket: 1-2323 / 2-2302 / 3-2253 / 4-2167 / 5-2142 / 6-2093 / 7-2092 / 8-2039
others between 1.8k and 2k only 7 players.
Average players rating 600-1.8k around 70 players only (those are really pro not even average)
Newbies thousands 100-600 thousands of player stuck in this bracket.

Other classes
Same as after the nerf. nothing changed.

This is official data and still visible until today in blizzard official site.

Official data shows they never reached 3.2k compared to all other classes reaching 3k easy before the nerf, if they did win fights and your claims are facts, why the system not given them rating to show evidence of winning? why the best pro players were stuck at 2.5k rating around 20 players from the entire globe and thousands were below 2k rating? Lie detector spotted! again bring data to backup your claim. I am now building a 2nd castle in triangle of Bermuda on the top of sea. source? trust me mate!

If you really played a tank before the nerf you will know the tank was only able to kill 2 classes similarly geared players conquest geared:
Tank win : rogue + hunter
Tank lose : all magic casters fights
Tank Draw: all none magic casters fight.

How can they be toxic when you can’t kill them and they also cant kill you due to low dps most of the fight were draw.
If you say kill you need to show data of high rating. if Leadboard show no evidence of high rating it simply means, they cant kill other players.
You cant cry because you just want to kill a tank no matter what class you are, while in same way since WOW started you were never able to kill a single pvp healer and until today you cant kill a healer in pvp. in fact when i was playing healer before switching to tank you will need to bring the whole BG players to be able to land a kill on me, only when my CDs run off after 5 minutes while of you trying your best.

Please stop with the trust me source.

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Isn’t it a bit too early in the expansion to conclude that? Most people barely got together their honor sets.

If you don’t even have 10 mil HP as a guardian, you’re missing several green PvP items. You might just be undergeared.

Mmm, so are you doing mostly arena or battlegrounds? The idea as a PvP tank is that you’re focusing on objectives or are being a support to those around you. You don’t directly duel with people to land the killing blow.

In DF I had no issue handling one-on-one combat when defending a GY and so far it hasn’t been looking too bad in TWW. The only thing that is really broken and they never bothered to fix is the extra damage tanks gets from siege vehicles that basically one shot you.

When do you think ‘spamming’ rage on IronFur is a good thing? Beyond a single stack I mean? If you’re fighting an enemy player your rage would be better spend on trash or maul that both damages them and gives you a direct absorb shield.

Ironfur is mostly an armor buff that works against physical damage and auto-attacks from a boss. Players usually by-pass the armor component completely.

Are you currently Chose of Elune or of the Claw?

Elune is pretty useless, sadly. I had to switch to Claw which seems to be the clear winner in extra dps, utility and self-heal.

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you could also just play the game longer than a month. no one likes playing against tanks and almost no one likes playing as tanks. this is both true in pve and pvp, but in pvp its even more obvious.

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Pro players dont play tanks outside of doing it as a meme. People has always hated playing against tanks, it was made worse with shuffle that is correct because they forced other people to engage with them in PvP. Prior to shuffle they were always agonizing to deal with for anyone partaking in WPvP and on a fairly regular basis also in BG´s.

Virtually the only players playing tanks in arena are the ones trying to aquire a walmart R1 title due to the simple fact that the competition is so low making the requirement to aquire the title far lower.

The rating you´re also reviewing is solo shuffle rating which is based on participation, aka if a ton of people play something that rating will be higher due to inflation. If no one plays it the rating will be low.

If you´re going to use statistics as evidence you should atleast understand how they function.

Maybe you lost to all magic damage dealers or were unable to kill people, theres countless videos of people backpaddling with their guardian druids or blood dk and afk tanking 12 people in BG´s while systematically killing anyone they accidently happen to be targetting while having higher healing output than dedicated healer specs.

Tanks have been spoiled for ages because of main character complex. The healing was nerfed because they could solo almost all content due to passive healing n suddenly they need healers to… get healing…? Based on what you´ve stated about your own gameplay i dare say you fall into the complete sterotype everyone associates with tank specs n chances are you simply dont know what you´re doing n the spec isnt overtoned enough to autocorrect itself.

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So all replies I see here, is Trust me source!
None was able to pull a data were Tanks excel, because simply there is none.
Looking at the amount of replies and cries against tanks we should expect to see this scary tanks as you guys describe them on top tier 3.2k rating.

Instead it just none sense comments against the logics, while many classes are lankier than tank.
It like hey buff me because i love my self, but i don’t care about equality amongst all other classes because I am not from the 10-15% community who play tank.
while we know you can’t kill a pvp healer, but i need him for my benefits so its fine.

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I think tanks should have a place in pvp and that most of the hate is misplaced towards them while, in reality, is just the game that is not balanced. It’s Blizzard’s job to find them a place in pvp, kicking them out is not the solution, but we can all have our opinions.

With this I have an issue. While it’s true Blizz made tanks with the idea of them playing only in pve, this is true for many specs. In vanilla fury was designed for pve specifically for example. This mindset changed in wotlk tho for many tanks, and both protection specs found a niche in pvp and where very successful in it. Meanwhile fury in wotlk was still pve only.
So by this logic we should kick fury players (and many others) out of pvp because “they were never designed with PvP in mind in the first place”.
The truth is that Blizz did all they could for many expansions to include every spec in pvp, and as the game became more burst centric tanks where left behind.

Tanks rn are no op nor strong, they suck. That’s why no one plays them, but yes, sometimes they are annoying, but I mean, many specs are annoying. We should ask for all the specs to have a role in pvp, not to remove what we find unfunny to play against.

Many people would say this about a ton of specs, like BM.

It’s the same for healers, rogs etc. Where is the point?

As far as I know the +70% dmg taken is still active for tanks. It wasn’t impossible to get oneshot by siege weapons in epic bgs, it’s gonna be even worse now. Dps spec are mostly tankier than tanks.

The part where you have almost to no burst damage and the damage overall is low. I do more damage with my disc priest in pvp.

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So what do you think the role of a tank should be in PvP? the only times they´re popular is when they´re a statstick that simply cant lose no matter how poorly you play, yes BM hunters are just as degenerate but the fundamental difference is that if he plays like an ape i can straight up murder him no matter what class im playing. Whenever tanks are strong ill lose a 1v1 to a backpaddling clicker who spams ironfur 400 times in a row.

Healers are immortal in 1v1´s yes, im perfectly fine with that seeing as unlike tanks they contribute to the actual flow of the game, they´re also needed for all parts of the game. Tanks on the other hand contribute nothing what so ever and infact actively make the gamemode worse whenever they´re present.

N no, that is not just my opinion. Tanks in shuffle in place of healers proved this point perfectly in every way possible.

The only ones who wants tanks viable are the ones abusing them, and they only abuse them when they´re op n complain whenever they have to vaguely know what their spec does to win every single fight. Throughout most of DF we had either blood dk or guardian druid backpaddle afking in BG´s n tanking 12 people for 45 minutes straight. That is not n never will be acceptable gameplay.

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To be fair, if they don’t want tanks in pvp, they should make them unable to queue, otherwise they should just balance them better. Or balance the mode around them

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So you are saying that Tanks should be removed from BGs, and blizzard have to set some tanky DPS to do the tank duties in BGs, or perhaps tanks should carry on with their nerfed pvp tank spec, they should join BGs accept their BGs duty and and gets stressed to not reach high rating while accepting to die for the sake of a dps who just want to kill a tank for his own self satisfaction.

What about we just delete the tank spec from wow, we create a DPS Tanks so the 80% of DPS community would be happy to never be able to kill each other, and we also remove tanks form PVE, im pretty sure all Bosses are not happy about it either.

Some people here because they dont play tank they like to inpose their rules on how the game should benefit them.

We are not asking favours here, we pay for the game, either you fix tanks in pvp or remove it blizzard. if you only care about money and income, well let you tell me something blizz, if you check this account $ spent in 1 month is more than 20 dps pays in a year and i know many other tanks who spend lots. Fix it or we leave the game, we did it in DF and we will do same in WW if you continue this way, so your loss

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Yee except “tank players” in PvP only appear whenever its so overtoned it forgives all their mistakes, anytime a tank cant 1v8 while backpaddling n button mashing these “tank players” rerolls something else or complains about it.

What do you want the role of “tank” to be in PvP? in PvE your job is to keep aggro while healers keep you alive. Tanks has been spoiled for ages due to having 3 built in pocket healers worth of self sustain n being able to solo all content, now that they no longer can its suddenly a problem. People dont enjoy tank specs, they enjoy being op with minimal effort.

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Is this guy serious, Source? Trust me

do you understand English have you ever been to something we call school.
Did they talked to you about something called data? something called results? even if you dropped from school you learn this at primary. If you say i am the top in my class, you’re asked to bring evidence as result showing you have scored XX. where on the official leadboard you see a tank hitting a high rating? then if a tank can kill 8 it supposed to be the top tier in pvp and leadboard should show all; tanks 3.2k rating.

please stop posting you are just embarrassing your self. i right now have built pyramids on top of the moon. source: trust me mate!

Tanks are getting killed by every class, even low geared players with 2k hp can land a kill easy, we cant carry the flag we cant do anything in pvp, the guardian is useless and this is not acceptable. Blizzard fix it or delete the class.

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You keep refering to data eventhough you have absolutely no clue how to even read said data.
i´ve tried to be as polite as possible about that fact n even tried giving you a hint about how it works but you simply dident catch on n now you´re having a mental breakdown over your own ignorance. I explained exactly why tanks arent high rated.

You dont even see the irony in making a radically uneducated statement while calling someone else uneducated do you?

Ill do you this favor n explain it to you again. Shuffle rating is based on participation, if 5 people play something there will be a significant deflation in total rating. The only ones playing tanks in arena are the ones going for easy R1 titles. Its not hard being the best at something only you and 5 others are doing.

Tanks are also usually not op in arena because arena has different rules that dont apply to BG´s and WPvP such as dampening. You keep comparing apples n oranges, use statistics you dont understand in the slightest based on some weird “uhhhhhh big number best number!” orc logic.

Ontop of that you even include in your own post how you have absolutely no clue how to play your class which is straight up comedic n fullfills every single sterotype imaginable. See i was being polite before by not pointing these things out but since you decided to behave like an ape i will no longer do you that favor.

You want a class that lets you win despite not even knowing the basics of said class, you got that point across already from the start.

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Again you really ashaming your self here, source: trust me mate! is telling us that tanks can 1v 8. however when they enter arena we don’t see them top rating, simply because in 2v2 or 3v3 , lets say the 1 or 2 teammate dies, the tank 1v2 and 1v3 get ashamed to slam his opponents, and refuse to 1v2/3, if not 1v8 the tank leave the game, that’s why we see the data doesn’t show high rating. the 8 Guardians and the 12 guardians over 2k rating data shows us in 2v2 and 3v3, were the only one who didn’t leave the game and decided to 1v2/3. But if you wonder why they didnt reach 3k same as the other classes , they dropped from the game once they hit 2k.
also if you still wondering why only only 12 in the entire globe were able to reach over 2k compared to hundreds from other classes thats another story of source:trust me mate! for the next episode.

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Since you brought up education just earlier, its “shaming” not “ashaming”, although even shaming has the wrong meaning. The word you´re looking for is embarrassing. if you´re gonna make an attempt at attacking someones education i´d at the very least expect basic grammar. If you cant fullfill that critera it is rather unwise to attempt to weaponize it seeing as it repeatedly backfires in your case.

To continue the trend of this, you then go on to spewing absolute nonsence in a babyrage fashion, im not patient enough to try to translate what you were trying to write. Im not your damn english teacher.

I already explained to you why tank specs historically arent a problem in arena compared to BG´s and WPvP. But by all means since you love repetition i´ll repeat it once more. DAMPENING. I suggest you screenshot it n put it up on the fridge next to your crayon art.

Normally i would´ve gotten bored of this “conversation” quite a while ago, but i just find it adorable how you keep fullfilling every single sterotype people have about tank players.

Im sorry you cant backpaddle while spamming ironfur n beating better players i guess?
Clearly this needs to be fixed seeing as there has now been almost a full week of this unacceptable situation!

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It seems you never played guardian, when your hp is 10%. if u don’t build all the iron fur stacks before hitting frenzied regeneration you will be one shot, not sure why I’m explaining 1+1 = 2 here. You just seems to repeat the other guy message witch i saw and ignored because simply I don’t have battery to reply to keyboard warriors who tries to show they know when in fact they never played the class.

while I speak with data as evidence and your talk is trust me source you change subject whenever I reflect your fiction claims, says 1v8, the guy pulled this lie from the depth of stratholme, discussion cant be made even with a small liar, what do you think about a big liar? mined people bring valid arguments not trust me source lie just so they can backup their none sense with no matter, you haven’t showed me one single data as evidence where those guardians excels in pvp, you just want to show they are OP in your fiction brain.

I have also noticed you’re just a keyboard warrior who hunt forum posts to argue with people, seen few of your posts here, seems you like spreading toxicity and when people post in forum their valid argument to blizz for a game they pay for, it make you feel you own the forum and they are strangers who stepped inside your home. stop posting lots and go get a real life, get a job or something, some education can help you further getting a job.
I will ignore you going forward

By the way Blizz please nerf DK frost, I played today few BGs and killed half of the lobby with low gears, the unbalance of classes in pvp is outrageous

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I have played guardian druid, just not in PvP because i have some self respect. You on the other hand are completely out of touch where the only times you´ve played was when backpaddling n spamming ironfur somehow allowed you to win against far better players n somehow that got you twisted into thinking that was your fantastic performance n the way the game should be.

Ahh, i see we´re changing subjects from english to math now, it is my pleasure to inform you that 1+1 is indeed 2! must feel good to finally get a win.

I dont know what “other guy” you´re refering to, granted i havent really paid much attention outside of your comedic rants but i assumed it was just me replying. It wouldnt surprise me for even a secound if you´ve opened simular posts like this in the past n recived simular feedback though.

Quite the opposite in terms of “toxcitity”, you seemingly forget that you´re the one who decided to get personal with me by spewing insults. Up intill that point i was being perfectly civil.

I´ve repeatedly explained to you why people dont want tank specs in PvP, the absurdly big majority dont want tanks in PvP. Your fun should not come at the expense of the majority. The only toxic garbage thats come out of this forum post is from you because you cant handle people disagreeing with you without having a complete breakdown.

As for getting a job i already have two of them, i dont think a third will be sustainable. You clearly dont know what toxic means since all you´ve done since you opened the post is pathetic attempts at personal attacks in a haymaker fashion where you just spew nonsence n hope something will stick.

there are tons of videos from DF where guardian druids won by simply existing. It was busted for a big part of DF on multiple occasions.

If you cant handle interacting with other people without having a complete mental breakdown perhaps you shouldnt open a forum post on a public forum.

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Yeah, but we also need to realize that we have different kinds of ‘PvP’.

There is segment of the player base to whom PvP only entails directly trying to kill each other and anything else just slows the game down, they primarily do small blitz battlegrounds and arenas.

To them a Tank is just a nuisance and the limitation of those Tanks is just being a flag carrier. These players also tend to absolutely hate Battlegrounds that require objectives, strategic map movent and resource management.

They don’t consider battlegrounds such as Alterac Valley, Ashran, Wintergraps, IoC as being ‘real’ PvP. And as such, the concept of slowing other players down to not reach objectives, dismounting them, strategically holding chokepoints so other players don’t get through to capture the basis or kiting bosses, as being part of ‘PvP’.

Those are the areas where Tanks usually excel in, at buffering and herding the flow of combat and the map. These also play a role in smaller BG’s, but it’s a play style that fundamentally at odds, what what these direct combat players like.

I believe it was also one of the main reasons to separate the random large BG’s and small BG’s. But since everything needs to be viable for everyone, you end up with a lot of grey areas between arena’s and epic BG’s

For the record, you absolutely need a Tank for things like Ashran and AV, but it’s absolutely not needed in arena or blitz.

Any BG that’s a bit in between will have varying degrees of usefulness, like for Seething Shore, a tank makes less of a difference, but for things like Capture the Flag or Silvershard Mines, they do.

Of course you can’t just exclude players who prefer playing a Tank, Healer or DPS entirely from one area of the game, so you’ll have to work with rough edges and bit-by-bit balancing.

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As someone who has played PvP Tank since BC… I absolutely love the class fantasy, and in general there should be no reason why tanks aren’t allowed in PvP. The only issue is that Blizzard doesn’t put enough money into designing their PvP well. Tanks in PvP should not be just unkillable self-sustained hp monsters like in PvE (Of course most players don’t want to see tanks in PvP then) - as blood DKs are now, if I’m not wrong? Tanks could have more AOE CC or supporting skills, imagine any Tank/Bruiser you have witnessed in MOBAs, even Overwatch. Or better healing/dps capabilities in exchange for survivability/movement. I loved to play heal-prot before these stupid mana-changes…

Prot pala specifically has been :poop: for a long time already, if even Guardians (who were the demi-gods of PvP Tanks for the longest time) are starting crying now… oh god… what a shame for Blizzard