Unpruning: Can we just go back to MoP class design and take it from here?

Fun is always subjective but in most cases, like yours, is usually the last refuge of someone with no arguments. I’ve said this before but it’s ridiculous to think that with 37 spells the class is super fun and with only 31 is boring and unplayable. Secondly some options were taken away, i realize that, but that’s mainly because there are other factors at play when talking about class fantasy and design, it’s not a deliberate attempt to make classes less fun. But i often see primitive people like yourself asking themselves why blizz oh why doesn’t blizzard just add 50 more spells to each class cause that would make for the bestest game evah.

Also i don’t really know what you’re basing your claims on but it’s hypocritical to call others ignorant when you make such definitive statements, you’re confusing your nostalgia for knowledge. Also if you had some common sense there wouldn’t be a need to strawman my words but hell, what was i expecting.

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:upside_down_face:

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fun is always subjective thats right, and yet there are dozens of threads / polls that prove my thesis in any way ? People had the most fun with their class in MoP, they got asked and they answered with M O P, is that so hard to grasp ? I’m not saying 100% of the playerbase would agree, but you’re claiming the exact opposite here:

other than the fact that having patchnotes to fix the expansion like in any other expansion of the game, literally A N Y Other expansion, this doesnt prove anything at all. People found it fun and balanced pvp wise, look for some threads and you’ll get the idea without having to look for long.

Yeah, you’ve said this before and I’ve stated :

So instead of just ignoring everything I’ve written & repeating your exaggerated claim, try and bring up arguments.

We are comparing BFA with MoP right now and not only the amount of spells but also the versatility and usage of each single one is by far not so minor like you make it out to be.

you should start making sense instead of trying to mindlessly trashtalk me. No one said anything about adding even more spells, OP clearly stated to take MoP as a example and go from there. Also, class fantasy at the cost of Fun and class depth ? You either must be joking or you’re just another casual who tries to push his own vision of the perfect game despite the public opinion about the topic.

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? Mind quoting anything i said that i can’t back up ? You should be careful about saying those things without even giving me a proper example to work with.

oh no lol, trust me, i know exactly what I’m talking about and I’ve yet to hear anything i stated being wrong, so please, go on ?

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I think I actually lost a considerable amount of brain cells reading those “anti MoP” posts, jesus at least bring valid arguments on why it was bad instead of something like this:

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Actually, the mop haters are way more vocals than those who actually enjoyed it. I do agree to a certain extent that classes were powercreeped a lot, but on the same time, I do prefer that all spec provide the same utilities. Once pruning happened, it’s more unbalanced than when we all had everything at disposal. Just think about that for a second: An elem/enh shaman or retribladin does heal himself less than a rogue, without any sort of compensation. Obviously, the other way would be let pure DPS being pure DPS, but I’m not sure that another pruning would be the solution…

no u just say everyone wants MoP Back… but im sorry plenty of people have asked for several iterations of the game to return… even as far as vanilla.

you’ve linked me a poll with less then 100 People voting on… that isnt even 1% of the Opinons of the game… are we really that desperate we’ll nmame a MMO Champion poll with less 100 players contributing into.

im sorry, but it doesnt really dictate Exactly the player difference of opinons at all.

i rememeber Shadow Priests being a Laughing stock throughout MoP due to Blizzards attempt to create “support” roles and failing miserably.

I remember the daily complaints about how Overpowered Arms Warriors were.

I remember the Daily complaints of how bad Paladins and Priests were.

i remember the Daily complaints of the quantity of Dailies to be completed per day.

the playerbase has Spent every expansion Vocally hating on The current iterations of the game, the difference is its Just a Different group of players who are unhappy with things.

atleast One group within the forum goers… has hated every expansion to come live so far (Agreed Every one of them barring WoD was Better then BFA) MoP structurely was ALOT Better then BFA and tbh that is pretty much factual. but that doesnt mean that Just reverting the entire game to MoP is a fix either.

tbh anti players entirely on this forum almost Are a Headache to read :stuck_out_tongue: I may not wanna see the game revert 3 expansions. but at the same time I dont understand how these players proclaim to have spent 2 years playing a expansion which they later on proclaim to “hate”

most reasonable people just simply have a different opinon/Desire from the game… the Daily “WoW is Dead” bashers are generally the ones who try and go into flame wars over this stuff.

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Well, there aren’t any with high votes (1k+), so i had to link that.

Still better than someones personal opinion on what is clearly better though.

Again, until you can give me a better poll (lets say with 1k+ votes and not MoP/WotLK on top) these are just the facts, maybe there is a “silent majority that thinks different” or maybe not, who knows.

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Imo, Blizzard was right to simply delete the “support” class out of the game in Cata. It just cannot work in modern wow. If my roster needs to pump more damages, than a true DPS spec is a better choice, same for healing, why would I bring a support if a healer can pump more heals ?

At this day, it’s still the case. Those complaints are still well and alive !If it’s not Arms Warrior (It was in 8.0) then it’s another broken FOTM spec, chiefly DH.

Imo, for BFA, I think the playerbase really meant it. I know it’s some sort of meme we used to have going back to TBC, but I feel like it’s different with BFA.

I’m quite split on this statement. There are things that I really prefered in WoD than I do in BFA, but I do have now less resentment against WoD than against BFA. Sure, WoD had a lot of blunders, but a part of me thinks that maybe it’s better to have nothing to do than being 10000000 dayli chores.

At this point, TBC, WOTLK, CATA, MOP are structurely better than BFA. And I dare to say that even WoD, could have been greater than BFA.

There is a balance to find. I do like mop, but I do agree that we had too much utilities, even if some of powercreep came from CATA (For instance, rogue self heal was a cata finisher). But on the same time, reverting back to wotlk is not great, as I showed on this topic, rotation would be more dumb and dull than bfa’s rotation. It’s safe to say that players don’t want dull and dumb gameplay anymore. However, talking about Blizzard finding a correct balance between not enough and toooooo much, well…They never achieved that.

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u act as if im the first player in the world to ever challange weather MoP was best class design or not lol… im obviously not. I’ve read More then 56 Players Asking for WoTLK Design… and thats Equal to the quantity of votes for MoP in that poll.

the players fighting it in this Post… aswell as the ones who fought it in the Megathread on this among the players Demanding WoTLK back Aswell as the players Diving on vanilla… prove that there are TONS of players who loved this game for Different expansions.

Again i will re-iterate.

im not Against MoP, im not talking about “a Silent majority who hates MoP” either, as i stated in my orginal Post… MoP Was the Last time WoW was good… so its the time in the game that will stick to players Minds most.

Lots of people Wil remmeber the Last time they loved something… not the first. and also may i add, by the time we reached MoP, alot of the people against Modern WoW design had already quit the game and wouldnt be presentg in these conversations Nor Polls.

by MoPs Arrival, WoW was VERY different to the orginal game that was Sold to the games First audience… and its Kinda stated Several times. theres MORE Players who orginate from WoTLK / MoP present in WoW then there are Vanilla Players

(again before i start a flame war, im not stating this to invalidate someones opinon based on when they started). im just merely stating… WoTLK / MoP was ALOT of players in the current game first time in WoW. Combined with the fact that MoP Was the last good expansion this game had.

I just simply dont think MoP had the best design for every class in the game, Shadow priest in MoP Was Trash… and made as almost a “Support healer” that was Benched by the majority of the community.,. and the Orginal Second Winds was one of thje most QQ’d things ever.

https://strawpoll.com/49xr26h7/r

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8di7ul/which_expansion_had_the_best_class_design_for_you/

yes, it is the majority who shares this opinion, you can have your personal one but don’t try to discredit the obvious facts unless you, yourself deliver something :slight_smile:

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Cata Spriest wasnt a Support class. it was on the Mind orbs and actually was VERY strong throughout, its MoP that created the dumb Support healer crap that got attached to it.

im not saying the balance has gotten any better, i just dont exactly agree with MoP being the golden age of balancing.

yes as i agree, every expansion is Pretty much Better then BFA… and Anyone throughout any starting point in the game… would hate this expansion comparitively :stuck_out_tongue:

tthey’re both pretty damn Bad, but atleast BFA has M+ throughout… and did get Slightly better… WoD Went sour and then dove off a Bridge in terms of content as the Devs just gave up on it .

Its not a case of not wanting anything from MoP, theres LOTS of things From MoP i’d like to see Concept wise implemented once again. I just dont think you can really statically State MoP Was better then every expansion for every class in the entire game :stuck_out_tongue:

6 Players stated MoP in this thread, Equal to Wrath. and even 2 of those votes Stated a completely different expansion for a other class… 45% isnt a Majority… more then other expansion votes. but not a majority. and again a Fraction of even todays Player base in quantity.

neither of these sources Prove a Actual Defintive Choice of preferred expansion.

Most Players who DISLIKED MoP quit BEFORE MoP.

lets not pretend MoPs release DIDNT have one of the Highest Population Bleeds in the games History.

you seem to forget.

Wrath had over 10million players.
MoP had like 6 Million.

and yes im aware Cata and more had bleeds throughout also, but ur discrediting the Quantity of players who quit this game on MoP release and Never returned.

https:// www.mmo-champion. com/threads/2395179-Best-WoW-Expansion-Poll

heres a Pole which states WoTLK as the best expansion

and it has MORE votes then all ur poles.

https:// eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rank-each-expansion-from-best-to-worst/ 21224/5

heres Another one… which ALOT of people put WoTLK, Legion and More At the top of their lists in ranking.

https:/ /www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9gvb3b/best_expansion_in_your_opinion_and_why /

and another

Heres why, Because theres 2 Million Polls going on throughout EVERY EXPANSION OF WoW who ALL dictate a completely different expansion at the top of their lists.

heck that final one Starts off with like 5 people consecutively saying Legion…

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I’m tunneling on my main specs, so I was not aware they did that in MoP. Yeah, that sucks balls. This kind of idea just makes nonsense.

And I agree. I would also say that true balance cannot be achieved in WoW. It can’t. However, true op class shifting should occur more often.

If Blizzard somehow manages to do worst than BFA, then I’m gonna aplaud. Spoiler : I would not be astonished on the same time eheh.

Someone told me that he tought BFA was better than WOD till…8.3 came with corruption. That was enough to turn his opinion from BFA > WoD to WOD >>> BFA. For me, 8.2 could have been better if essences acquisition was better.

At this point, each xpansion has pros and cons. The thing is to only pick the best and remove the bad…Blizzard still can’t do that properly :s

one thing on these polls is really surprising me, the fact that people are rating Legion class design way higher than they do WoD’s class design.

I think this is mostly due to the incompetence of objectiveness when comparing the two expansions, maybe I am wrong and Legion actually had good class design, I for my part hated it and I had many friends who put up with WoD’s missing content but quit in Legion because they didn’t enjoy their class anymore.

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are you that dense ?

Exactly, its mostly MoP and Wrath, ill ask again, whats so hard to grasp ?

While I’m kinda sad that you brought up polls about the best WoW Xpac rather than the actual topic, the best class design, i find it funny that even there MoP is so close to wrath.

Are you just trying so hard right now to figure if more people liked wrath or MoP ? Jesus, you guys are some special ones

Stop trying to change the topic now, you even linked proof yourself that many if not the majority liked the expansion. But nice try to keep going regardless of the fact that you were wrong in your previous posts :wink:

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Legion was fun tought. Simple, but so fast that I’ve forgotten what I lost.
People are not rating “class design” but the fun they had. But I don’t think that WoD was that bad in term of fun spec (Yes, retribladin was enjoyable, can’t speak for other specs).
Legendaries and weapons simply hid the fact that our specs got gutted. And I agree, the true prunning happened in legion, not in WoD, which was just a MoP downgrade. The reason we’re hating BFA class design is that we’re only seing now that our classes got butchered.

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You make me sad. :unamused:

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then we essentially agree

its not a case of I wouldnt take MoP over current WoW, because Obviously i think if these were the Only options… we’d see 90% of players vote MoP. Im just saying theres a difference between taking a Philiosphy Above repeating a entire expansion is a better idea.

Yes it quyite funny the Legendary RNG Fest Was peoples favorite xD, but it does prove a Point to theres LOTS of favored votes to these expansions reguardless

The last 2 actually put legion as one of the top :stuck_out_tongue:

I meant to quote the link from deepoxysbabe where specifically class design was the topic, my fault.

Yes and I saw the rotten foundation most classes had already in legion, the expansion just had better cover ups than BfA.

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