You can have them bound but if their use is so marginal that you only use them once a week or less then they’re practically pointless.
Or you just don’t know how to use them. Or you don’t play content where they’re used.
It’s a you problem, not a design problem.
Then put them on sidebars so you dont have to look at them? You can even make them invisible if it makes you feel better?
Dude, i could go on all day but fact is, you want an easy way instead of learning all binds like every good player would do
Like
WHY
DO
THEY
BOTHER
YOU
Dont use them and be worse than the rest. Or learn how to use them and be on par. Whats the issue?
I don’t want any way at all here. I am just pointing out that most of these spells were so marginal that they weren’t used.
They weren’t. You’re wrong.
As neither of us has the metrics on this we shall just have to agree to disagree.
No, I used them every single day, so I know. You’re full of **** - as knows anyone who did any challenging content.
They maybe were pointless to some extend in the content your doing. And how you talk i can imagine you didnt even have much clue about your class in PvE to begin with.
In PvP however, almost every single spell was used ever. I dont see a reason why removing it makes much sense just because some PvE clicker feels bothered by them zzz
Hunter mop hp regen in combat %amount.
Rogue mop same
Warrior mop same
Warlock mop same
Mage mop same
All of these classes had the stun and aoe stun / hard cc btw and same number of escapes, all ranged what you can see on this list where able to cast while they had to move cus mechanics all of these where also able to pop multiple defensive cds at the almost the same cd. MOP was trash when everybody got everything and only dps metters, that was huge problem cus dps disparity was absolutely enormous. And i almost forgot on aoe raid immunity provided by rogue joke
1 Like
All these classes had these tools in a different manner, and alongside others tools and talent choices that made each of them feel unique.
A lot of classes have a spell interrupt but I don’t see you ranting about how only one of them should have it
Gimme back Monk’s miststep and you got my vote.
Some classes were just crazy cus mop design, as prot paladin which did almost the same dps as dpsers, solotanked wf mythic kill of the final boss in Mop and also healed the raid instead of taking second healer to the raid. this SPEC was so op it was able to do 3 roles in one. Paly wasnt only one who was such broken, well yes Warlock with 1m dps when others where barely able to hit 300k xd
You are criticizing the numbers tuning, which is a separate matter to class design and gameplay
No ?
Hunter had hard CC, so did mage, yes. They’re probably the only classes that are close in your list. And that didn’t change from Wrath to Bfa.
Rogue + Warrior ? Are you really telling me they feel the same ?
Focus of each one of them lays completly different. Rogue has stuns, yes, he also has more btw. He doesn’t use them as a gap closer, like a warrior for instance (stunning to have more uptime, and so on). Both have entirely different playstyle. They don’t only have complete different spells, they also use them entirely different.
While a warrior uses his tool to mostly help himself get close to a target/secure a kill, a rogue just helps / setups for his mates. Simple.
Mage and lock ? Nah. Entirely different, every spec. The closes call would maybe be Destro and Firemage but both of those specs were barely even played. While mage doesn’t only have an entire different toolkit with CC instantly breakable on DMG and roots, lock is just built around desorients and fear in which you can damage. Both playstyles are vastly different on how you kite and do damage.
So no, they do not feel the same to play at all just because they have “cc” like tf is that argument even.
The only thing i can agree on your list is Hunter + Mage and that has been a thing since Wrath throughout till BFA. Just because both are mainly focusing on setuping for themself while providing the needed focus damage to kill a target without any help.
However, in MoP the difference between those both is insanely high aswell. You play Hunter completly different than mage. You got a WAY different defensive toolkit with deterence where you can still die through it if used too late. Roar of sacrafice and disengage, while a mage survives with Nova and poly mostly. Offensive they kinda play the same with the difference that a mage actually has to cast his CC and cant just yolo it and win the game randomly like that.
So no, stop being such a 1Head and say they feel the same just because they both have CC in some way. That’s like saying every dps in cata feels the same because they all got kicks duh
Oh sorry, not every PvP player enjoys to stand still like you when slaying your Dragon raid boss. Most people enjoyed moving while casting while the majority of melees had enough gapcloser to get close & compete. Perfectly balanced and only because most caster can cast while moving doesnt mean they feel the same. It’s a tiny part from a massive toolkit with tons of tools.
yeah sorry but if you pop multiple defensives at the same time, chances are you gonna lose the fight anyway. CD’s off global made the game more skill based due to the fact that you have lots of tools to properly react to everything instead of playing a scriped game aka Bfa.
xDDD If you truely think only DPS matters, you havent played above 1.7.
Entirely different topic and has nothing to do with class design. These are tuning problems, something being OP doesnt mean the expansion sucks. By your logic every freaking expansion blows.
2 Likes
So do you think that WoD, Legion and BfA wad better? So maybe let’s remove pillars and make PvP dps race from the moment that gates open…
I actually think Cata had the best class design but MoP wasn’t far away. The amount of CC at the end of MoP wasn’t that bad and CC was actually useful. Right now casting Hex as Enh is meme because it’s not worth wasting 3 globals that you may spend on dealing damage…
Maybe for you or random PvE player. It’s obvious that PvE dps player didn’t use Frostbrand, Rockbitter or Earthliving on dps specs because he wanted to maximize damage but PvP players did. Paladins never used some auras not to lose dps etc. but they were useful for other players and they added a lot of depth. Also if you’re just PvE dps player just put spells that you use on your bar. It’s better to have more even though not everyone uses them than removing them from everyone because random PvE dps player never used this button. Prunning made PvP shallow and boring. It never recovered after MoP. Most of PvP streamers lost their audience and started to stream other games.
1 Like
I’ll never get where this argument came from that MoP had too much CC, I never had that feeling, not even as a warrior.
on the flip side knowing how to avoid CC was it’s own little mini game in MoP and basically half the deal of how to be good.
and even sitting long CC chains didn’t feel as awful compared to now because you knew once you actually get to play the game again you’d bang your opponent to another planet, now I can train ppl 24/7 strait and nothing happens.
4 Likes
There was a problem early - PoM ring, blanket silences etc. but once they got fixed it was ok. I think that maybe L.S.D. and L.S.D.2 had a bit too much CC because fear was literally a stun. Once they lowered it’s damage treshold - it was fine. Adding new dr’s made some comps boring and some even not viable. Enh/Hunt/x for example. Last time it was viable was the begining of Legion with BM with basically no CC and raw pressure and stackable MS effect. Basically this comp lost setup potential it once had. You can’t start chain with 45 sec cd instant hex and cannot follow with Trap because Hex, Scatter and Trap share DR. The only way to play it now is to take H Pala that stuns into trap but then he risks a lot and as Pala the most cc vulnerable spec it is bad.
haven’t really played early MoP so this might have been a bit aids from what it sounds like but still as I said even sitting CC in MoP felt better than having constant uptime in BfA in my opinion.
this is so relatable and true
3 Likes
There definetely was. There was Gag Order glyph on Warrior making your Pummel and Heroic Throw but it was fixed early. There was a bit too much instant CC which was real problem due to way faster pace compared to Cata. Also damage and healing was a bit overtuned early because PvP power gave you too much healing and damage. Hitting for 30-40% hp with one spell on CDs was normal in S12. S13 was already better tunned and in S14 all cancerous spells were nerfed. S14 and S15 were some of the best seasons I played and the fact they happened one after another says a lot. My favourite PvP seasons would be:
- S10 cata
- S15 mop
- S14 mop
- S9 cata
- S7 wrath
Worst:
- Current one
- both Legion seasons with 2x Feral don’t remember numbers
- S11 cata (legendaries and DS items)
- S12 mop (stampede hunters and immortal warriors)
- S16 WoD with Gladiator Stance warriors