More like people who don’t do the content enjoy getting given their freebee’s, so they defend such stupid stuff like this lmao.
1 Like
New raid tiers require ilvl boost because the reward for clearing a new raid is better gear than what was available in the old raid. That is the fundamental source of ilvl inflation. Old raid gear has to become obsolete, otherwise there’d be no point running the new raid more than once.
Might aswell remove stats from gear at this point
2 Likes
It’s the same tier, 3 months in of a 5 a/or 6 months tier. Already anything but mythic will be more or less useless. This isn’t fast? Next tier we get a ‘catch-up’ 6 weeks in? and 3 months in free mythic raid IL from WQ?
Lol so now I get gear from emissaries and m+ cos I haven’t quite got duelist yet.
At least I can boost my terribly geared ally rogue up to 400ish easily
Course he doesn’t think it’s fast, he’s done literally no content yet is sat at 401 ilvl. He loves he freebee’s, like everyone else who likes this change. That’s the problem with this game, it caters to people like him and those who don’t do higher end stuff, because they are the loud minority.
1 Like
The raid reward ilvl is going up, so it counts as a new tier. Perhaps half a tier would be more accurate.
Or perhaps a better way of putting it is:
Blizzard know people play to get better gear. Casuals get new gear. Hardcore players get new gear. Everybody wins.
No it doesn’t, Bliz themselves said it and repeated it even that this is like ToV which was part of the same tier as NH. It’s the same thing, the same tier as BoD. It’s a 2 boss raid, it’s a mini raid that doesn’t even can be justified to have it’s own tier or even a 0.5 tier.
This change essentially let’s you skip all M+ up to M+10 and all raids up to Herioc/Mythic.
Players will gear up to 400 ilvl by doing WQs / WFs / timewalking / M tour / dungeon event.
Now that players are done with these, they logically want to move to the next step, ofc there is more to wow than afking in a warfront of going to a world quest to kill 10 mobs or 1 rare.
Now that they wanna do something they’ll realize that their ilvl is high, probably around 390 here, minus or higher depending on their luck, Lfr / normal raids don’t feel rewarding, and any m+ below +10 would mean nothing because they don’t give them upgrades.
Here lies the problem, M+10 players won’t accept players who aren’t experienced, thus the R.io 1k req, hell it’s even higher now for +10 lol and unless your a fotm the chances of being accepted is even lower, but no body wants to do anything below +10, especially +7/+8 and 9 because they outgear them already! and nobody would take the players because they don’t have Rio!
As for raids, CURVE describes it perfectly, no one is gonna take someone who haven’t even completed normal mode, but no one wants to do normal mode because everyone already outgear it, and even if they wanna do it they probably won’t take you because you didn’t even finish LFR! and don’t know how to deal with the tactics!
This essentially creates a wall for players, a very long tough wall that seperates the " casuals " and non " casuals ".
Climbing this wall seems impossible to players new to the game, don’t have much time, aren’t that good, which eventually leads to new players losing interest and casual players calling it quits or resorting to buying boosts which spawns threads like the currently ongoing hot topic of ELITIST TOXIC EXCLUDE US CASUALS!
Blizzard once again manages to try and please everyone and fail at this miserably, progression is dead, My friend druid has done over hundreds of M+10 and above, while being a mythic raider and is at 417ish ilvl, players gearing exclusively from WF / WQs can reach 400-410 ilvl or even more in due time, this essentially makes people who are trying to progress feel like their progress is meaningless because every patch cycle a new reset ( Upgrade ) button is hit, while casuals feel frustrated because nobody wants them in their groups.
People are talking about Catch up gear and welfare existing since forever ( Yes welfare gear existed in vanilla shocking right! ) but fact is these catch up/welfare gears were never as strong as raid gear.
In wotlk the catchup gear was 216 ilvl, while max raid gear was 277, in MoP catchup gear was 496, max gear was a whopping 588, see the difference? Catchup gear now has only a 15 ilvl difference and in term of strength and power a 400 ilvl player and a 415 ilvl player Don’t have THAT huge of a difference in dps/tanking/healing, coupled with the fact that the game is so RNG that a clueless 400 ilvl player could outdps a 415 skilled player if RNG got played right, and even if RNG were equalized between them, a 400 ilvl player can beat a 415 ilvl player if they’re good enough essentially means gear no longer has meaning behind it.
Gear is no longer impactful, it became a tool a means to an end instead of a reward and " OH shiny "
Welfare gear and catchup gear being so close to actual content to the point that invalidates some of it is ruining the game rather than fixing it, I don’t know why blizzard is so insistent on such a bad approach in making the game fun.
7 Likes
PvP should have its own gear and vendors. A PvP player in “Blues” as they used to be should still hammer a PvE player in Mythic gear. They need to bring back the old PvP gearing system of honor points and arena points and winning your 10 games per week. You should not have to PvE for gear to do PvP. Imagine if PvE players had no choice but to do arena for gear, the QQ and uproar would be earth shattering.
3 Likes
What you are saying is correct on one level, however it is very wrong on another. The season is about three months old, it is basically over with the exception of those who want to push a RIO score >1K. What we have right now with the exception of CoS is a typical between WOW patches content drought.
In theory there are probably a handful of players who would even dream of doing that type of content in need of gearing up now. If anything only the Mythic Raid and Mythic CoS are any good to people who did M+ consistently since the start of the season.
As is when I make an M+ group now myself I put a 410 or 415 min ilev on application.
Not so, you could get 232 from tokens, and once they upgraded you could get 264. Also the three dungeons (HoR etc.) dropped 251 gear IIRC, you could even buy the quest for a 251 weapon on the AH.
How is the season over with? It’s not over until the new patch comes out. Yes, most of the people who spam M+ to get gear (Because we all know this is the fastest way to gear up) are 415+ ilvl (Including their Mythic raid), but, what about those who can only raid heroic? My guild can’t raid Mythic at the moment, because we can’t get 20 people on. We average around 15 people, and pugging those extra people usually ends in a painful experience (Quite a few wipes because they don’t do the mechanics on Champions, even though it’s easy).
So, at the moment, unless we can spam the hell out of M+ (Which, we much prefer raiding than doing M+) we’re gonna be “on par” with people who have never stepped into a raid.
Exactly, only Mythic raids are good for those who did a lot of M+, but what about those that don’t enjoy it? What about those raiders that don’t enjoy it, but can’t get enough people on in the guild to run Mythic? because it happens. Just screw those people, right? They don’t matter?
And due to you doing this and those who use Rio, a LOT of casuals are leaving because “elitists are excluding us”. This isn’t helping anyone, this is just causing problems for a LOT of people.
No, it is not a new raid tier, in fact, the ilevel for items dropped from the new mini-raid was first intended to be exactly the same as BoD, until a certain very vocal minority started crying about it and Blizzard caved in, buffing up the ilevel for the gear dropped from the mini-raid.
We have to live with the reality of catch up mechanics, I don’t see that going away, but the timing and logic regarding this round is completely wrong. If they are already doing this now, what is going to happen when 8.2 actually releases as by the logic of the vocal few, it’s a new tier, so ilevel on rewards from WQ’s and the like should go up again too.
If I recall correctly, the token gear and upgrades in WoTLK were time gated by the fact you could only get X amount of tokens per week and you actually had to do something to get them, so not really comparable as WQ’s take very little effort and can be spammed almost endlessly, the only limiting factor being RNG of how many of them reward gear pieces in any given day. Also we didn’t have the whole warforging/titanforging RNG sh**show back then. If we assume each zone has 2 gear rewarding WQ’s per day (which is a conservative estimate), 6 zones, 7 days = 84 pieces a week. If you farm all of them, I would expect at least 2 to titanforge, probably more. If you then have a base ilevel of 395, that means at least 2 items a week that are on par with current mythic raid gear. Just feels wrong, very wrong.
Darkshore is being used as an argument, but again, this is not spammable, this is 1 guaranteed item every cycle of 3 weeks or so, an item which is decided at random and thus can’t be used to target certain slots.
The dungeon gear from those 3 WoTLK dungeons mentioned was also not added till towards the end of the expansion cycle and was still decently inferior to raid gear at the time.
I’m not even 1200 RIO and I can assure you there is a massive gap skill wise between me and people who are 1500+ and running +15s.
IMO RIO gets it pretty right on the button most of the time, which is why in general you should group with those around the same score. I will rarely if ever (unless very stuck for a tank) pug someone who is miles higher than me score wise. One mistake by the group that a player like that wouldn’t make at their level and they are either QQing or gone. Same for those who are lower because you find you have to carry them and it makes it harder to make the timer.
It is reasonably accurate overall as an indicator of a players current skill and experience level.
this change is srsly making me consider of taking a second break in this xpac.
It’s so terrible.
1 Like
Casuals which haven’t done BOD hc raid before even without this implementation wouldn’t be able to get into the curve runs anyway through the LFG, nor would the people without the experience be able to get through it into more experienced groups for the m+. The ones which want to do that content now can always find the guilds for them to progress with, create own groups or join the ones which would accept them in LFG, or even join some of the communities which aren’t asking for the RIO score and the curve to join their raids or the m+ content.
It is a way for casuals to get geared. Remember that there are people in WOW who do not do pvp, mythics, or war mode, but will need the gear to do regular/LFD/LFR dungeons and raids.
400 level gear has been given out via the Darkshore warfront since it first went live so there have been plenty of opportunity to get higher level gear before this announcement.
1 Like
Which are all useless, don’t you guys see. If you aren’t 2.2k rated or doing mythic raiding your essentially gearing for nothing. For normal? That’s why it drops 385 while they get from WQ aswell. Gear for what? Even at 394 like this mage HC offers very little improvement. Let alone normal, mythic dungeons or LFR. So it’s to overgear everything before you even step foot into it?
I can’t get this mindset how this is fun, but even they are sharing this sentiment and they have no will to do it because the rewards aren’t there it’s why I have no will anymore to do alt raiding anymore and this mid-tier boost proves exactly why. 394 (with some bad luck) just doing WQ, world bosses and warfronts. Others are 400 because they also had WM on said char. I’m near full HC complete already the 400+ people already surpassed it. This gear is useless, normally it could be usefull for soloin gold raids but sicne Bliz thought it would be fun to lock legion raids to PL it’s even useless for that because it’s easier to join a zerg group. Also people in said zerg can trade gear to you, I now helped two people complete their mythic NH mog (a DK and druid).
thats just a victim syndrome or masochism.
there is 0 real reason why people who play world content shouldnt over time get powerfull gear.
3 Likes