Void elf reasons

lol what

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Major_Characters_in_Icecrown_Citadel
“Sylvanas is also skilled at archery, an art she mastered as a high elf.”

Chronicles 3, page 61, refers to her as a “brilliant tactician” - that’s when it’s talking about her defense of Quel’thalas.

Lor’themar believes she was instrumental in saving Quel’thalas from total destruction, per the BElf heritage quest.

Lor’themar Theron says: Sylvanas Windrunner was our kingdom’s protector. Had she and her rangers not met Arthas with such fierce resistance, our people might no longer exist.
Lor’themar Theron says: She paid the ultimate price so that enough of us might escape to rebuild our fallen kingdom.
Lor’themar Theron says: When Arthas raised her as a banshee and turned her against Quel’Thalas, it broke all our hearts.
Lor’themar Theron says: I’ve had my share of disagreements with Sylvanas… But I will never forget her sacrifice. She was the Ranger-General of Silvermoon. Nothing will ever change that.

With essentially zero army she managed to defeat the dreadlord trio and claim Capital City through tactics and guile.

You can dislike Sylv all you like but if you’re going to sincerely suggest she’s not written as incredibly competent at her job then you’re just deliberately not paying attention.

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Good for Sylvanas? She’s a pretty gifted archer, something many elves achieve…

Chronicles are not a credible lore source, as Blizzard have admitted.

Lor’themar is also not likely to have admitted, even to the ‘Champion of Azeroth’ the actual reason why Quel’thalas fell, that being “I listened to my best mate, who betrayed us” I mean…that’s a thing that happened…

Sylvanas also tried to defend Quel’thalas with about a hundred soldiers at a time if that, come on, you can’t use the WC games as being a realistic basis unless you think that a human peasant is the same height as a house. They had to play around with logic and representation. Every representation in recent times, in canon sources, has not been a favourable one, whilst at the same time, trying to big her up, it is like they don’t know which way to go with her, which is not that surprising…

Got me curious, when/where is this? :sweat_smile:

From the purge of Dalaran scenario were the Silver Covenent sou d the Purge alarm and don neon masks.

No, she’s a MASTER archer. It says right there - she mastered it. And everything we’ve seen in game and in lore reflects that.

UVG describes her as a “renowned Ranger-General”.

Saurfang also acknowledges her tactical brilliance in A Good War. As a general rule her plans are creative and sound, until someone stops following them and starts sabotaging them - looking at you, Saurfang and Baine.

Literally no one in the canon thinks she’s a bad tactician. Show me the sources that she’s not.

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Uh so they are a nughty elves that chase after a power despite knowing that it can endanger their precious people. But they do it anyway. As if they care more about their research than Silvermoon.
And after being kicked, they joined with enemy to continue that resarch. Trying hard to prove themselfs to the Alliance.
If that’s not a treason then I don’t know what it’s. Blood elves must hate their guts.
I like it. That’s some fine morally gray right there. Can make for some fun RP.
And don’t worry they will find a way to make more void elves, just pray to blizz to not forget.

When it comes to creating new void elves, I still stand by the opinion that the interview where one of the storywriters mentioned Void Elves are open to more people interested in their cause meant they are able to replicate the process in one way or another.

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Being interested in a cause doesn’t turn you into the same thing as those that the cause focuses on.
They likely just study the void, as shown in the Rift.
Until we are told or shown that people are being changed, I stand by the incredibly powerful ritual not being repeated.

No, lets be fair, she is good with a bow, she does things that are impossible with a bow, that’s not mastering it, that’s just impossible new toys syndrome. She can shoot arrows that somehow manifest chains behind them despite that being almost the antithesis of being a master Archer? I mean that would make you a rubbish archer, that would make you absolute trash, incompetent and not capable of actually doing what an archer is trying to do, which is putting an arrow in a certain place. In Game we see her one shotting Worgen as she monologues in Silverpine, which is cool, but nothing unremarkable, we see a random Orc woman do the same in the starting Ashenvale experience, We see Godfrey and co do the same, None of them are described as ‘Mastering their art’. They’re just doing what the tools allow them.

You’re confusing ‘master archer’ with ‘being able to kill someone with one arrow’ which is something that any competent archer should be able to do, or ‘Can shoot arrows with magical chains flowing from them despite not having said length of chain in her quiver’ At which point that is magic, That’s not being a master of something, that’s an ‘I-Win-’ move. If Sylvanas could have actually carried the lengths of chain, attached them, and fired them, now that, that would be a master archer. I mean, a really weirdly specialised archer who had a skill they had practiced with no previous rationale or reason for doing so, but yeah, that would be pretty amazing.

She has plot ability. Sylvanas muses about being the greatest hunter ever. In her head. In her short story. Note she says Hunter. That’s an OOC class… I mean sure, she could be the greatest Hunter ever, not the same thing as being the greatest Ranger. For a start, some of it makes no sense, but nor does her abilities.

‘Renowned’ “Known or talked about by many people, Famous”

She is renowned. She is the most famous undead person since Arthas.

You can’t ignore the fact that she was Ranger-General purely on the grounds that her big sister didn’t want the job, and it was given to their bloodline by bloodline, not ability. I mean that -is- Canon.

She never worked her way up through the ranks, she got it by birth. That is canon.

Saurfang is an amazing soldier. He is described as absolutely and utterly competent, and we see him doing that, in game, in the same way as a player character Warrior can do. He does nothing that a player character can not do. Saurfang is a brilliant soldier, and inspirational. He’s also always depicted as second fiddle. I mean, he is smart, we see that in Wrath. He overcomes a problem in Borean Tundra that Garrosh was completely unable to even understand, let alone resolve. Garrosh however, is also described as an excellent tactician. In the Novels. The same place that Sylvanas is described as being an excellent tactitian.

That’s the problem. That is the downside. The only evidence we have of Sylvanas’ supposed brilliance is the same source as Garrosh’s In both cases they are shown in game to be utter dimwits when it comes to strategy or tactics, but a book makes them seem clever. Two canon sources, two canon sources that contradict each other. So we either go by book, or by game. To give an example, Sylvanas was a Quel’dorei. Given Elven ages, her grandma and grandpa would have been Kaldorei. She is suddenly surprised that dead Kaldorei and wisps can do what they do? So much so that she tests this theory by sending grunts in to go and ineffectively die?

How is that a smart tactician, she -knows- this stuff, she is of that basic species, it isn’t like the world collectively forgot that Wisps are actually dangerous! I mean they killed Archimonde for goodness sake!

The sources are effectively visible whenever you click on the icon to launch World of Warcraft.

She’s not the only person who suffers from this weird ‘Apparently I’m super smart, but in game I am as thick as two short planks’ motif, but she is the only one who it is confirmed got her position by bloodline, not by competence, you can surely see why going with the in-game source material backs that up?

The sources you are looking for are the Thas’dorah artefact Knowledge, and the short story ‘Dark Mirror’.

Don’t even get me started on Nathanos, Blizzard managed to ruin two NPC’s just by letting that get published…

I actually used to think Nathanos was cool…

Also, her tactics are brilliant?

Tactical brilliance → was teased by an old man to reveal her plans.
kek.

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Right, but Sylvanas is. In canon. By Blizzard. I provided the source. Sorry it upsets you.

Hmm, nope. Thas’dorah’s story doesn’t say that. It says:

As the eldest, Alleria was to take on the mantle of ranger-general, but she had little use for tradition or expectations. She decided to apply her training to practical matters, so she became a Farstrider, a member of a group of rangers focused on fighting for the Highborne all across Azeroth. She made a name for herself after a number of quick, decisive victories. Her sister Sylvanas would one day rise to leadership in her stead.

It doesn’t say anything about the position of Ranger-General being hereditary, or Sylvanas not earning it, merely that it was the expectation and tradition. But whose tradition?

The Windrunner line had been serving quel’thalas for generations - a family tradition putting the onus on the eldest to become Ranger-General doesn’t mean that’s a High Elven tradition. Sylvanas being a master archer and a brilliant tactician makes it quite logical that she’d be Ranger-General. There’s no reason to think she isn’t qualified when every source says she is.

What? That’s not how it plays out either in game or in A Good War. In the novel, the wisps gather and Saurfang orders a retreat - most listened, some were slow and didn’t.

In-game, the wisps are gathering to make the wall. Grunts charge, Sylvanas commands them to stop but they don’t and die on the wisp-wall. Are you just making things up now?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/a-good-war#tab=4
https://youtu.be/qwxHd6x4E5E?t=398

Read and watch it yourself to get a refresher. I guess I understand why you might think she’s an idiot if you just make up scenarios in which that is the case.

Yes. That’s what everyone in lore says - friend and foe.

Man if she had revealed her plans that’d be a first. That’s one mystery box Blizz are still insistent on keeping closed.

Maybe not plans outright, but she lost her cool because of a single old man, you can’t deny that, I mean she had the chance to save it, probably, but went with it anyway and openly defected the horde right then and there, when only 3 people may have been able to openly and clearly hear her.

It isn’t full yet.

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Sure, it was a mistake*. Brilliant doesn’t mean infallible, though we might expect that of fictional characters.

*assuming it does end up being a mistake and doesn’t get retconned into actually being another part of 15 dimensional chess game. The Horde did come out of the war united and in a more powerful military position than the Alliance, with the Forsaken not receiving any significant blowback for her actions, or loss of life. You could certainly spin it as being another deliberate move of hers if you wanted to. We shouldn’t underestimate blizz’s redemption arcs.

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Honestly it would be ridiculous at this point.

and I expect nothing less of the most ridiculous from blizzard, so it checks out.

You have to measure Sylvanas’ “Brilliance” against the intellectual giants of Alliance High Command that stormed the Fortress of Mrs.Blight without Blight precautions after becoming victims of blight numerous times in the past.

In that light, it makes a lot more sense.

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You got a point.

We have a lot of incompetent people in charge, on both sides.

Sylv got the only braincell on Azeroth and everyone else is mad because she refuses to share.

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Who knew that the Blight could be nullified by Ice magic. Not like it was first used in an Icy environment or anything… Dear Gods, the real world Plague is making us very sceptical people you know…

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