It is just difficult to try to understand the context. I think your situation you talk about is something we never ever have experienced, so we try to apply it to things that have happened. Which is leavers when keys are already completey dead. So it does not matter if someone leavers or not, the key is already tanked anyway.
What do you mean by this? Someone without untimed runs is a leaver?
(and where are the untimed runs? i only see numbers for timed runs)
So if I don’t finish a key for whatever reason im all of a sudden a “selfish player” or what?
There are so many reasons not to finish a key…
So I disagree. Its not “easy”.
But you keep trying. Keep throwing out ideas. Maybe you are the “neo” of wow and have all the easy answers nobody in 20 years was able to come up with.
Also :
Raider IO shows only completed runs. If you did not finish the key it does not show up.
I think you should assess who you invite into your keys, because I haven’t had a single leaver this season.
There’s also always the option to make friends and play as premade!
I don’t check it often but if I’m split between two similar people to inv and one has a couple untimed and the other has 0. I’m 100% taking the one with untimed because I’m more likely to finish the key. Especially if it’s at a certain breakpoint for loot like 5 or 10 now and ksm. If it’s a key I know I need to time for score or whatever maybe I’ll choose differently but when I’m focused on weekly that’s how I choose.
Now I understand some people don’t want untimed keys showing on their score but imo it shows your going to stick with it until it’s totally unreasonable. For example I joined an rlp couple weeks ago a 5 I think or 4 not sure but equivalent to an old 14/15z sham joined did next to no damage the entire run. I could have dipped group and saved my time but it’s one of the keys I need for score and would likely get me to 2k. So I stuck at it until I think the heap left on the bridge to the last boss which I felt was completely understandable. It was clear from the first pull it was a carry with only 2 effective dps but sometimes it’s worth stick long it out if it aligns with your goals
This is the crux of the discussion. And if it does not align with your goals? Should you stay or not?
This is what many people dont understand.
Let me tell you that nobody has 0 untimed. There are so many reasons to not time a key.
It would become just another meaningless metric. Like ilvl.
A key is a team effort. Not an individual effort.
You cannot take a metric who 5 people are responsible for, to try and judge an individual component.
This will mathematically generate way to many false positives. So many in fact, that the results you seek (likelihood of completing a key) will be exactly the same as today.
Completely fair but my point is id rather risk playing with someone with 90% timed vs someone with 99% timed because ik theres a higher chance of actually finishing the key
OK.
So lets just say this (true story) : I have my alt. With this alt all I do with it is mess around with my buddies. All I do is brick our own keys because none of us are paying attention to the game and are instead cracking jokes on Discord.
That alt will be 80% timed keys. Are you gonna deny me entry to your group?
Your assessment would be correct if and only if timing a key could be directly linked to individual performance. Which it cant.
If I had an option of a better player with higher completion rate yes ofc I would. If it was a higher completion rate and slightly lower score is still take them. I want to finish keys not risk them on unreliable trash drama queens
I agree 100% with this.
I answered another of the thousands of threads on this topic explaining how a “Deserter Punishment system” would unfairly impact people that are disconnected or have to leave mid dungeon because of IRL issues, but unfortunately people are incredibly selfish and are perfectly fine locking others out of a content just because they sporadically meet a player that leaves a key.
I agree that I don’t like drama queens. But in the end, lets agree to disagree.
I just did a +9 Uldaman. 2 DDs (2 palas with a short CD kick) did not interrupt a single time.
We got mauled by chain lightnings. And put a lot of stress on me (I was tanking).
We wiped on Bromach. The problem with Uldaman is that if you wipe on that boss because of lack of interrupts, you will most probably not time the key.
The healer, said : I want to time this and we wont time this. So I will leave.
And even though I preferred to time it, I would have stayed. But alas… healer left.
So I got 1 incomplete dungeon all because 2 DDs did not want to interrupt a single time in 10 minutes, and a healer that had other priorities.
And under your proposition my “record” would be forever stained. For factors outside my control.
That’s fair especially as most groups lust there too.
Ok? And mine would be stained if you left if I failed to interrupt? I know it’s difficult to consider other people are also affected by your actions. 4 other people are affected by your actions
Correct. 100%.
And those 4 other people do not deserve to have their record stained by my actions. Bricking a key is enough punishment.
Except only the lead is punished you can just carry on bricking other peoples keys until you find a “good” group
Thats a different story.
The punishment is only for the key owner. True. But so is most of the benefit : He gets a key upgrade.
How about this : If you time the key, your own key also gets upgraded. Not only the key holder’s. Or if you brick the key, your own key gets bricked as well.
You could do things like that. With out having to do some sort of “leaver IO” number.
Sounds awful.
We usually play the highest keys that potentially gives score that we have when I go with friends and if it fails we go one of the others keys to try to get that key again. If these keys lowered if we fail the highest key, it would just be very offputting to even play.
I’d also agree with this idea too. I just feel leaver stats would be more helpful at least to people who want to play the game
How about this:
Let’s make the game Pay-2-Grief!
Killing key pushing again 
Yes, but also adding another necessary gold sink to the game! I mean, look at the price the token has reached. Blizzard even added so many expensive cosmetics near the BMAH and their effect on the token was… 0. Or it if it was important, imagine how high the token would cost without those cosmetics.
To me it just means M+ is dead. I am not going to invest 15k for every run knowing the dungeon is impossible to finish.