Warcraft III Reforged

04/11/2018 16:58Posted by Sylvianna
Doesn't work like that, simply by "right of conquest", otherwise Doomhammer could have made himself into the new King of Stormwind, just to spite the Humans even more. And Sylvanas is Queen of the Forsaken, not Lordaeron (as a Human Kingdom).

At best Garithos could have been the "fake king" of a military dictatorship of a new Lordaeron "kingdom". Especially because, you know, all his subjects would have been his own soldiers, as he had next-to-none civilians alongside him in his army (the civilians had already run away south at that point)


He is part of the nobility like I said... Giving him a claim to the Throne. He may have been one of the last in line be he has a right for it.

You clearly don't know what the succession is, nor how it works if you generally thinks that he doesn't have a claim.

Edit : You are just being ridiculous at this point, it is the same as any other noble in Stormwind becoming king if Anduin dies without a heir.
e is part of the nobility like I said... Giving him a claim to the Throne. He may have been one of the last in line be he has a right for it.

You clearly don't know what the succession is, not how it works.


Learn to read, I literally posted you multiple examples that being part of the nobility means literally nothing.

Otherwise Stormwind would literally plunge into chaos and civil war if Anduin died.

And Vereesa could literally claim the throne of Quel'thalas right after the death of Kael'thas, but she didn't.

Deal with it, Garithos was just a commander and not King material. Fact.
04/11/2018 17:01Posted by Frozenshadow
Edit : You are just being ridiculous at this point, it is the same as any other noble in Stormwind becoming king if Anduin dies without a heir.


You are replying to an infamous forum troll, you might want to rethink your course of action.
04/11/2018 17:05Posted by Arctur
You are replying to an infamous forum troll, you might want to rethink your course of action.


That's fine, we are just talking among trolls here.
04/11/2018 17:04Posted by Sylvianna
Learn to read, I literally posted you multiple examples that being part of the nobility means literally nothing.


I did, but it came across as pointless and wrong. Nobility has everything to do with succession.

04/11/2018 17:04Posted by Sylvianna
Otherwise Stormwind would literally plunge into chaos and civil war if Anduin died.


Yes it would, it would turn into political chaos.

04/11/2018 17:04Posted by Sylvianna
And Vereesa could literally claim the throne of Quel'thalas right after the death of Kael'thas, but she didn't.


I don't know how Elven succession in WoW works so I cannot comment.

04/11/2018 17:04Posted by Sylvianna
Deal with it, Garithos was just a commander and not King material.


Personal opinion, not fact. He is objectively a claimant to the Kingdom of Lordaeron. Stop arguing against it.

Edit :

04/11/2018 17:05Posted by Arctur
You are replying to an infamous forum troll, you might want to rethink your course of action.


Too much fun watching Blood Elves complain, inhuman scum.
I don't know how Elven succession in WoW works so I cannot comment.


You don't know how human succession works either. Humans of WoW /=/ IRL humans.

Personal opinion, not fact. He is objectively a claimant to the Kingdom of Lordaeron. Stop arguing against it.


*Dictator, just like Sylvanas.

Words have meaning, you know.
04/11/2018 17:09Posted by Sylvianna
You don't know how human succession works either. Humans of WoW /=/ IRL humans.


We have a basic understanding. It is a monarchy with the son inherits all.

We see that from BtS that if Anduin dies then there would be a crisis because the nobility will be scrambling to claim it and Genn doesn't want to deal with it.

We can piece them together now can't we?

This just proves your points wrong.

04/11/2018 17:09Posted by Sylvianna
*Dictator, just like Sylvanas.

Words have meaning, you know.


Prefer King personally, at least he has a claim.
With Stratholme being redesigned to reflect its World of Warcraft version, I hope that they will also rework Dalaran and Capital City. Dalaran is small in World of Warcraft, whereas in Warcraft III it was very huge and did not have a circular shape. And Capital City in Warcraft III had the generic Human architecture, whereas in World of Warcraft it is quite small, but it has a very unique architecture (name me another Human city that looks like Capital City).

I also wonder if they'll tweak some of Daelin Proudmoore's units in The Frozen Throne. Since It's been revealed that many Kul Tirans are bulky and big-boned, it would be awkward if not one of them appeared in Daelin's Invasion Force. It would also be interesting if they added some Tidesage units and made Daelin's armada look like the mastodontic and beautifully-adorned war ships of the Kul Tiran Fleet, instead of just generic small wooden ships. I would love if they gave Daelin his own unique faction comprised of special Kul Tiran units and buildings. After all, he is the second most important antagonist in The Frozen Throne, behind only Illidan's miserable squad. ANTAGONIST, not VILLAIN. There is a difference.
We see that from BtS that if Anduin dies then there would be a crisis because the nobility will be scrambling to claim it and Genn doesn't want to deal with it.


Exactly, they would ALL scramble and fight. Saying that all of them would have the right to become King is like saying nobody of them really has.

Because nobility has different layers, some nobles are more important and closer to the King than others. How comes those nobles do not take precedency and must fight against all others for the title, then?

Because their claim isn't real, they are trying to push it because they have a chance now that the real King is gone, but they are not going to be the rightful King that should have led the Kingdom in a supposed monarchy.

And that's why monarchy can easily become dictatorships when the rulers change in an unorthodox way like the Garithos one in Lordaeron.
Also Blood Elves still have nobles and they don't push to overthrow Lor'themar who is a non-noble (and a former Farstrider at that!) to replace him.

And yes for Quel'thalas it is the same of Lordaeron, it is (was) a patriarchal monarchy.
04/11/2018 17:18Posted by Sylvianna
Exactly, they would ALL scramble and fight. Saying that all of them would have the right to become King is like saying nobody of them really has.

Because nobility has different layers, some nobles are more important and closer to the King than others. How comes those nobles do not take precedency and must fight against all others for the title, then?

Because their claim isn't real, they are trying to push it because they have a chance now that the real King is gone, but they are not going to be the rightful King that should have led the Kingdom in a supposed monarchy.

And that's why monarchy can easily become dictatorships when the rulers change in an unorthodox way like the Garithos one in Lordaeron.


Yes, and Garithos is one of the last members of the nobility to be alive, if not the last remaining person to have a claim to the throne. And he is the most powerful leader in the area thus why he got support from the Alliance, thus further legitimising his claim to the throne.

And you keep shifting the goal posts of your arguments.

Succession works by there being a King and heir, normally their son. If there are laws in place then maybe even daughters but considering Calia was to marry Deathwing then this is out of the question. Once Arthas turned evil then the heir would most likely be the most powerful ducty, baron, vassal (etc..) in the kingdom. This has gone down to Garithos where even the Alliance supports it by sending him troops.

Please tell me how I am actually wrong by directly answering.

04/11/2018 17:21Posted by Sylvianna
Also Blood Elves still have nobles and they don't push to overthrow Lor'themar who is a non-noble (and a former Farstrider at that!) to replace him.

And yes for Quel'thalas it is the same of Lordaeron, it is (was) a patriarchal monarchy.


We aren't discussing that, regardless he is a pretender/usurper and I hate him more. Glad I left before we got to this point, inhuman scum.

Edit : I knew me playing Crusader Kings 2 would come in handy xd.
We aren't discussing that, regardless he is a pretender and I hate him more. Inhuman scum.


Of course you would avoid that argument, it literally disproves yours. Quit RPing nonsense and just tell me why either Alleria and Vereesa can't (or couldn't) just waltz in Silvermoon and become Queen by right of being Windrunner nobles. Or any other nobles couldn't do that, included a former member of the Sunstrider family.

And yes, monarchy in Quel'thalas is the same of the human monarchies.
04/11/2018 17:28Posted by Sylvianna
Of course you would avoid that argument, it literally disproves yours. Quit RPing nonsense and just tell me why either Alleria and Vereesa can't (or couldn't) just waltz in Silvermoon and become Queen by right of being Windrunner nobles. Or any other nobles couldn't do that, included a former member of the Sunstrider family.


No because we are not arguing about Alleria or Vereesa and Silvermoon because they are different examples. That is why I am not answering them

Stop using Strawmans please, it hurts your argument even more and comes across as you being desperate.

04/11/2018 17:28Posted by Sylvianna
And yes, monarchy in Quel'thalas is the same of the human monarchies.


Assuming this is true we still aren't arguing that. We are arguing about Garithos and his succession.
It's not a strawman, just a legit comparison since the monarchy is the same.

Also, why couldn't Garithos just declare himself new King of Lordaeron right away, then? Capital City was not required for that, he could have declared himself King in the months after the death of Terenas but didn't.
It's not a strawman, just a legit comparison since the monarchy is the same.


Strawman : "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

E.G, trying to get me to talking about Alleria, Vereesa and Silvermoon instead of talking about Garithos and Lordaeron. This isn't even taking into considering that Lor'themar is a REGENT LORD not a king.

You might as well drop this because I am not going to respond any further to you comemnts about this

Also, why couldn't Garithos just declare himself new King of Lordaeron right away, then? Capital City was not required for that, he could have declared himself King in the months after the death of Terenas but didn't.


I don't know, even if you say that he has no claim to it (which you are wrong about just saying it as a example) then he could have declared himself king anyway regardless if you think he is legitimate or not.

If I had to throw my opinion in then he is a Warlord ultimately and he needs the crown and capital to finally cement his legitimacy.
04/11/2018 17:46Posted by Frozenshadow
trying to get me to talking about Alleria, Vereesa and Silvermoon instead of talking about Garithos and Lordaeron.


No because I'm not trying to get you to talk about it, I am just showing it as an example and comparison.

So what, are all comparisons now automatically strawmans in an argument? It doesn't work like that.

I don't want you to talk about the Windrunner and Quel'thalas, just telling you that they are nobles too and can't do anything to reclaim the title of Queen. Same applies to Garithos and as such he would have just reclaimed Lordaeron and handed it to Stormwind to annex it. Or become dictator if he really want the power for himself.
Stormwind was founded by the ARATHI bloodline. At one point, the Arathi were dismantled and the WRYNNS took control of the city. By the time Prince Llane was born, the last descendant of the original royal house of Stormwind basically had no claim to the Throne.


Stormwind was built by the descendants of the Arathi bloodline but it doesn't say a Human of the arathi bloodline was ever King of Stormwind. Probably not. It's possible they founded the city and then they elected a new ruler from another family to be King, the Wrynns.

Just because a person builds a city or Kingdom, it doesn't automatically mean they are meant to be the King.
Going back on what I said a tad

04/11/2018 17:54Posted by Sylvianna
No because I'm not trying to get you to talk about it, I am just showing it as an example and comparison.

So what, are all comparisons now automatically strawmans in an argument? It doesn't work like that.


No because you are trying to get me to argue for a point I am not arguing about. This is even assuming the laws work the same way they do in the High Elves and later the Blood Elves which I believe they do not and you haven't provided proof for it yet.

You are trying to get me to argue about the High Elves instead of Garithos and Lordaeron, and that is why it is a Strawman. I have linked you the definition and provided why you have done this. Now answer me directly.

04/11/2018 17:54Posted by Sylvianna
don't want you to talk about the Windrunner and Quel'thalas, just telling you that they are nobles too and can't do anything to reclaim the title of Queen. Same applies to Garithos and as such he would have just reclaimed Lordaeron and handed it to Stormwind to annex it. Or become dictator if he really want the power for himself.


Like before different example, perhaps Alleria doesn't want to be Queen. Lor'themar certainly doesn't want to be king and that is why he has kept as a Regent Lord. The succession laws are different there clearly so even your comparison doesn't work.

Lastly Vereesa and Alleria are both banished so if you want to push the whole "Humans and Elves are the same" she has lost her lands and titles she ever had. Thus this makes her a pretender and not a successor. Which are 2 completely different things and it destroys any form of legitimacy you have. Has Garithos been banished? Nope.

You are wrong, deal with it.

04/11/2018 17:54Posted by Arctur
The problem is, You are arguing with someone whose knowledge of Human lore is mediocre at best.


I see what you mean now lol, hopefully this post will get her to stop.
No because not even Lyandra Sunstrider who was a Sunstrider had the right to reclaim the throne because she was from a lesser branch of the family. So if not even a member of the royal family has right to reclaim the throne automatically, what chance has Garithos at all?

Also Lordaeron has a human Kingdom was officially disbanded by Arthas, so there's nothing to reclaim actually. Garithos could only built a new Kingdom and make himself a dictator of it.

Especially because there were only soldiers in Lordaeron at that point. A King is not a King without civilian subjects, it's a fascist dictator.
why are we arguing for someone who's gonna die again anyway? :p

Meh I'm that bored...