I don’t understand what you want to say, honestly.
Actually, no. It is called the largest settlement in Ashenvale. Sorry.
I do not know that, true. But I do know that the elves are attacking all over Ashenvale, and I have a Horde mission to prove it.
I have a Good War open in front of me. She orders him to prepare defenses and evacuate civilians. Nowhere is an army referenced.
Sources for this HUGEEEEEE orc army? Further more, the Horde always had a strong Kalimdor Horde presence in Arathi. Hamerfal is there.
And for your claim one must ignore two books, common sense and a lack of sources. You know there are Horde armies in the Eastern Kingdoms. Unless you have a source which proves their exact numerical composition you are unable of disputing my claim.
Well, apparently, the night elves are keeping them busy.
I will quote the book, because why not.
Morka spoke up. “They’re leaving Ashenvale. We think they’re abandoning this land.”
A murmur ran through the assembled Horde. The soldiers in the central path moved aside.
Sylvanas Windrunner had returned, striding straight toward Nathanos.
Disappointingly, Malfurion’s head was not in her hands.
Saurfang raised his voice. “Is it true, Warchief? They have abandoned this region?”
Sylvanas nodded. She spoke to the entire crowd. “Ashenvale belongs to the Horde.”
The night elves had completely pulled out of Ashenvale. Once the Horde realized there were
no more ambushes, no more traps, and no more enemies, they raced forward.
You have two book passages saying that Ashenvale was abandoned.
points at number No clue what you are saying still.
But i’m not taking those settlements as something of relevance to give an advantage to either side, military speaking. Unlike you.
You claimed those settlements showcased the “Horde losing its grip”. Well, they aren’t big enough to actually be addressed in the war effort. Don’t even have a name.
Refugee camps are also Alliance holdings. And have zero military value.
Sure, let me clarify: You are taking the headline paragraph, which is some broad description of the place, that lacks any kind of nuance or insight to what actually happens there, hasn’t been updated since it was first written in Vanilla, and ignores the rest of the evolution of said area.
To have the actual situation of any area, and i mean current, you have to look at the latest piece of information regarding it. In this case, BfA epigraph.
Largest doesn’t mean it has significant military value. You are grasping at straws regarding semanthics, and blatantly ignoring the latest piece of lore that points at Silverwind being JUST AS important as Astranaar.
“But its big!” is irrelevant. Some big civilian outpost is not as important as an outpost holding a bottleneck of a mountain pass.
Same applies here.
If the latest information, says Silverwind is par on importance with Astranaar, then the military value of both settlements is indeed equally important. Regardless of nominative titles or how important any of these settlements were in the past.
And again, you have nothing that points at said attacks being successful, which is key to prove whether they are actually making ANY advancements at all or not.
You don’t know if they are actually achieving their goals.
Attacks are to be expected, as the Horde is settled in their lands and obviously hasn’t systematically wiped them out of Kalimdor, but you are taking the argument further and saying that because they are attacking, they are being succesful.
Yeah, poke a wasp nest and they’ll come stinging. Doesn’t mean they are successfully killing anyone.
Defending a city and evacuating civilians require troops. An army.
The Battle for Lordaeron showcases the Horde army, not Saurfang single-handedly running around complying to Sylvanas orders.
Don’t know…take a look at the settlement in Arathi or the Horde army that marches around Zuldazar.
The books reference Sylvanas ordering Saurfang to mount up the defences of UC.
Common sense? Yeah, your common sense apparently dictates the Horde should’ve stayed in Kalimdor while they attacked UC.
That notorious generals such as Eitrigg, Rokhan, Baine, or Rexxar travelled by themselves to enemy lands without taking their armies with them (even if they directly say otherwise, or are explicitly shown as commanding actual forces in Rexxars case).
And that the Horde apparently rather stay in Kalimdor sitting this war out while there is a warfront in Arathi, a whole campaign in Kul Tiras, and outposts attacked in EK.
By the Night elf army sent to halt the Horde advance. Unless you imply the civilians were ambushing and attacking them too.
Point at the number of the epigraphs regarding the Horde war effort in Ashenvale, from the list i wrote, that references that the Night elf attacks aren’t being negated by the Horde side of those quests.
No, I did not. I claimed that the mission lore table shows the Horde losing its grip. I merely pointed out that a lot of settlements are unaccounted for, and that was because you made the “Horde holds majority of outposts” argument.
Unless the night elves moved to college and abandoned the city in search for better jobs, that information is still relevant.
No I am not. Largest means it it is the largest. The very lore piece that you provided claims it is one of the two MILITARY major outposts, the other one being Silverwind refugee. So, I am not grasping at anything. I am making a logical conclusion according to both of our sources. And military value is a rather fluid term.
Irrelevant to the discussion. Also, you just wrecked your own “Horde holds SIlverwind” argument.
I do not, but the very fact that the night elves are on the offensive of such a scale is a clear indicator of the war shifting.
You have no sources for the majority of the Horde army being in Eastern Kingdoms.
So, you are arguing that a smaller Alliance army defeated the Forsaken, and THE MAJORITY OF HORDE Kalimdor’s forces BOTH in the Undercity by itself? Damn, you are a bigger Alliance fanboy then I ever was.
I once again ask that you show me the sources.
Yeah, I have seen it, cute army. Is it also the majority, or did you lose the majority at the Undercity?
Fine rhetorics and grasping. Show me the source for the majority of the Horde’s army being in the Eastern Kingdoms. Arathi presence is easily explained by Hammerfall, notorious generals mean nothing, a single person can travel much more easily then an army.
Further more, if the Horde is capable bringing the majority of its forces to the Undercity, why isn’t Stormwind capable of bringing most of it to Darkshore?
You have two options. You are either arguing that the majority of the Horde was defeated at the Undercity, or you are arguing that the night elves are giving the Horde hell despite facing the majority of the army. Pick one.
You claimed that the Horde controlled a portion of Ashenvale. The Horde commanders claim that they control it in its entirety.
They obviously checked, unless Sylvanas has a crystal ball (as she had in our Stormwind debate). And I sincerely doubt that the civilians waited for the Horde, because, you know, self-preservation.
I am pointing at mission number six which says that the Horde’s outpost are being besieged by the Kaldorei across Ashenvale. That statement has nothing to do with the outcome of the mission and implies a wide offensive. Regardless of what is happening, the fact that the Kaldorei are capable of a wide offensive speaks volumes.
You shifted the goalpoasts and started saying the Alliance controlled large swaths of land, then argued how they control a number of settlements, and now imply that you aren’t arguing about the importance of said settlements regarding the argument of the military control over said land.
Unless they died in the War of Thorn, killed by Lorash and the PC, or fled to Teldrassil to avoid meeting the marching army Saurfang was bringing towards them…
You are arguing, using a quote from what apparently seems to be an outdated paragraph, about the relevance of a settlement in the greater setting of Ashenvale, and claiming how important it is based solely on how big it was.
And meanwhile, Elegy has a literal statement that equates its value, how relevant it is for the Ashenvale campaign, to another outpost held by Horde forces.
Are you saying you are just spouting some random data regarding Ashenvale that has nothing to do with your initial claim about how are Night elves faring in this conflict? So far you’ve dismissed two of your quotes as having nothing to do with the actual militar effort in the area.
How?
Saying that the war is shifting and saying Night elves are succesfully taking their land back, requires a big leap.
Shifting as in finally fighting back after retrieving their army that sailed away? Sure. They are certainly fighting back.
Are they winning? You don’t know. But apparently you are implying they are. Or are you not?
Given the most relevant war fronts are currently taking place there, and that the most re-known Horde figures are physically there too…then yes, the army seems to be there.
Do you have any source that actually points at the Horde army being in Kalimdor?
You are asking for quite a leap of faith to just assume that Eitrigg, Baine, Rokhan, and Rexxar just left their armies sitting at home while they did the heavy lifting.
There are quite a few Darkspear troops in Nazmir. Rexxar commands quite a seizable orc force in Stormsong (let alone stuff like Brennadam that also points at Horde army movements out of Kalimdor).
And the Arathi Warfront. And the siege of Lordaeron. And the defence of Forsaken lands.
Point at something that may indicate the Horde stayed home. Because most of the relevant war stuff is certainly elsewhere.
No, i’m saying that the majority of the Alliance army defeated the majority of the Horde army that was defending UC.
Defeat as in forcing them to leave the place.
Once you start giving me the one that states they were in fact left behind. I’ve mentioned both levelling and max level content.
Scenarios related to the war effort in the warfront experience, in the levelling quests, and in the war campaign.
Relevant characters out of their main bases on Kalimdor, and managing Horde troops in other places around the globe.
Ranging from Brennadam, to Arathi. Having Rexxar and Rokhan managing their racial armies, or Eitrigg defending Horde outposts.
And opposed to that, you gave nothing. Ok then, start doing so.
Point me at a source that states the Horde army is staying in Kalimdor. And bear in mind that even if instant teleportation isn’t a thing, the troops could’ve indeed moved from one place to another given the months required to do so.
Because unlike Darkshore, they had the time required to prepare their defences.
First one.
They claim they control the land as in holding the ground they conquered. And its still some statement issued prior to the arrival of the rest of the Night elf forces.
You said that you could pinpoint scenarios where the Horde didn’t automatically negate the value of the Night elf effort in their questing.
Lets take a look at number six:
Yep, negated. The one they are worried about is being reinforced. We don’t know which side ended on top in said clash or which side actually won.
Again, wasps stinging. We don’t know how successful they are. Not enough to categorically state “They are taking their land back”.
I shifted nothing. I pointed that the Alliance has several outposts which implies that they hold a solid swath of Ashenvale.
Further more, I am not implying that settlements mean nothing, I am laughing at your claim about how the Horde holding Silverwind refugee is something huge but the Alliance holding Astranaar is something minor, although according to your own source the two are comparable in strength.
So, let me see, you tell me that I claim Astranaar is a large settlement and tell me its old news and that it might not be true, then you point me reasons why it is not so from the newest expansion?
Also, Astranaar is no longer important, but Silverwind refuge still is, although people there can also be killed.
Yeah, the Elegy has a literal statement calling it one of the two major military outposts. Silverwind and Astranaar.
I don’t think I did, sorry.
Rather simply. You reference a mountain-pass as choke point which is important. As far as I know, Silverwind does not hold such strategic value.
I am not, no. You can check my last post from last night where I am saying that both sides are locked in a stalemate. But I am also stressing the importance of the fact that the night elves are taking Horde settlements and being on the offensive after the knockout that was Teldrassil. So, a stalemate with the night elves having the initiative as it is clear that the Horde controlled Ashenvale at the end of the War of the Thorns.
That on itself is important.
You claimed that the majority of the Horde’s army is in the Eastern Kingdoms, burden of proof is on you.
This is you trying to twist out of the trap you have fallen into. You have said that Saurfang brought the majority of the Horde army to the Undercity. Yet that army has apparently retreated?.. Despite Wowpedia claiming the Horde took heavier losses? This is just a convenient mental leap.
The majority of the Horde army was either crushed by the Alliance at the Undercity, per your claim, or is being harried by the night elves in Ashenvale. You can not avoid military casualties and implications because you feel like it.
Further more, I demand that you show me the source on BOTH the majority of the Horde army being in the Eastern Kingdoms, and of the Alliance using the majority of its forces at the siege of the Undercity.
I gave two newest lore books and pointed out the inconsistencies among your so-called proofs which prove nothing. And once again, you claimed, so the burden of proof is on you.
You can not demand that I prove the opposite thing when you can not prove your initial claim.
Stormwind’s teleports were under repair during the War of the Thorns?
It is not about time, it is about transporting logistics. The Alliance had two weeks to reach Teldrassil, we didn’t make it. You can have all the time in the world if you do not have the ships.
Your blue tabard is awaiting in the mail.
Heh, no, it is not negated. The siege of Splintertree post is negated, and that is if we take the Horde’s mission as being a success, which we can not.
The statement of the kaldorei besieging Horde outposts across Ashenvale is not negated, even if Splintertree post itself is relieved.
Not enough to state that they are taking their land back, yet the Horde controlled Ashenvale at the end of the War of the Thorns, while the elves now hold several outposts? Color me surprised.
Not the only one that matters. Not even the most important one.
And in the next sentence you admit you don’t know how large or important military speaking any of these are.
Also, you didn’t say ‘solid’ you said large.
Apparently some unknown and uncharted holdings referenced vaguely hold a bigger extensions of terrain than the actual big names that are apparently held by the Horde or destroyed by it.
Not really a solid logic.
Nope. I’m saying that the Alliance holding Astranaar means very little if the Horde holds its equivalent, on top of also holding most of the remaining, named, and relevant outposts.
Having the second best thing around, isn’t better than having the first on top of also controlling what comes third, fourth, fifth, etc.
Having a truck isn’t really that relevant when compared to someone that on top of holding another one, also has at their disposal several bikes and cars.
Yes (?). I mean, if Astranaar started of being big, but the latest narrative has Blizzard stating most it’s inhabitants fled or got killed…that’s a pretty big deal regarding how it’s current situation is atm.
It was an example given to show how size means very little when compared to allocation. And plenty other factors.
Didn’t imply Silverwind was a mountain pass or anything of the sort. You are grasping at straws.
Then why did you argue against my statement that none of these point at the night elves being actually winning?
And pointed at ingame situations and scenarios that support that being the case. Almost every noteworthy event regarding the war plot.
Unless you are saying that the troops that attack Stormsong, Arathi, Nazmir, defend Silverpine and Hillsbrad, or altogether landed on Zuldazar, are the minority of the Horde army.
You are drawing circles on an assumption that goes against what we are shown ingame and failing to address your own statement. Because I suspect you got nothing.
I addressed my ‘burden of proof’ long ago. Do likewise or withdraw your claim about having the Alliance dealing with superior forces on Ashenvale. Because as of now, you don’t seem to have nothing indicating that’s the case.
Unless you played a different scenario, the purpose of the army on Lordaeron was basically buying the civilians time to escape while they withdrew and guys like Baine or Lor’themar helped evacuate. While the rest held the ground as much as they could.
Trap? What trap? The Horde got defeated on Lordaeron.
That doesn’t mean the bulk of their forces was ‘crushed’. Point me where that happened because I didn’t see it.
Defeats don’t always come with a total and crushing destruction of the enemy troops. As the scenario goes, they just simply fled elsewhere.
It’s funny how you shifted your argument from having the Horde defeated in Lordaeron (which it was), and now rephrased it into the Horde army was crushed in UC.
Both scenarios aren’t dependant or contingent one to another.
Yes, the Horde was defeated in UC and forced to flee. No, the Horde army wasn’t crushed in the process.
They gave up and left.
You gave a quote that tried to explain why it wouldn’t have been possible for the Horde to get their army to UC instantly. Irrelevant for half the war effort plots that take place days, weeks or even months later.
Even for the siege itself, as you don’t know when it actually started and how long it took the Alliance to actually gather their forces and strike at Lordaeron.
It controlled the portions it conquered during the rushed campaign that took them across the area.
Land that, quoting Saurfang, was just a stepping stone for their ultimate goal.
Unless you are privy to some additional narrative of said book, I’ve yet to see any part that claims they went ahead to exterminate every minor settlement across the land.
We do have quotes that they have control over the Night elf army (that was currently retreating), but even those are prior to the landing of the rest of the navy.
The implications are the same, you are nitpicking semantics to save face.
Surely you mean not a large logic?
But one large holding is held by the Horde (Silverwind) another by the Alliance(Astranar.) Those are your own sources.
Yeah, no. Have a map over at WOWhead which i unfortunately can not link. Find “The Story from the Follower Missions in battle for Azeroth”. Further more, you are overplaying Silverwind’s importance on purpose.
But Silverwind is still important, despite also being conquered, because reasons? Convenient for you, lol.
According to your logic, holding a truck is not holding a truck because the guy across you has a bike. That’s like claiming that I have no apples because you have two apples.
Actually, no, you are. You claim that Astranaar is unimportant because reasons, and claim that a small military outpost can be more important if strategically well placed. I am doing the same to your Silverwind argument, so if someone’s grasping at straws, its you. Your own sources counter you.
You addressed nothing, or we wouldn’t be at this argument. Your Arathi Warfront has been countered by my Hamerfall reference, and the Forsaken are the ones defending Hillsbrad.
You proved nothing, you just show places where the Horde is active and demand that I take your word for it. Show me proof, show me sources, this shows nothing. I want to see a source about the majority of the Horde army being away from Kalimdor.
Aha. It was not blighting the Alliance leadership then, it was a purely humanitarian mission? Lol. I also did play a mission where the Horde is routed thrice.
Nope. It is hilarious how you twisted that the majority of the Horde army was at the Undercity to avoid the repercussion of being harassed in Ashenvale, yet you are now acrobatically leaping to avoid the consequences of your logic. Apparently, the majority of the Horde army at the Undercity was teleported away by unicorns without loses.
Wowpedia says heavy losses. Gave up and left? You wish. The Horde took very heavy losses being routed in front of the walls, being assaulted in the keep, then Nathanos’s Forsaken were crushed. But you probably played the Alliance version blindfolded to avoid trauma, yes?
It is not irrelevant as you claim that the majority of the Horde forces was at the Undercity, despite the fact that no faction has the naval strength to move armies fast to the opposite continent. You also talk about teleporting while neglecting that the Alliance did not teleport to Darkshore. You ignore the two basic premises of this war, and expect me to consider it a valid argument.
I have a book passage where it says that night elves abandoned Ashenvale. Unless you are claiming that the Horde left important strategical spots without a proper garrison, it is rational to assume that the Kaldorei had to meet resistence. Unless you are saying that they just waltzed back into Ashenvale proper, singing?
The navy never landed in the War of the Thorns itself, it fought on the sea, then retreated. Further more, how does one have “control” (?) over an army? What are you talking about? The sources itself speak of the land being fully abandoned by the night elves.
So they weren’t defeated in battle, they just shrugged and decided to leave because they couldn’t be bothered ?
Give me the source please that states that at Undercity the Horde “gave up and left” because the scenario itself clearly showed how the Horde were pushed back time after time after time again, getting destroyed not shrugging and leaving
To keep it simple, if I hold something valuable, and my enemies hold an equally valuable thing on top of also having a whole bunch of marginally less value stuff, the fact that I’m holding it isn’t as noteworthy or relevant to show how I’m faring better than them.
In absolute terms, they are in a better position.
So, again, you are saying that some unknown and uncharted holdings weight more than the actual named and relevant outpost the Horde has, regarding size?
No, I brought it up because you started arguing how important Astranaar was based solely on size.
I didn’t say Astranaar is unimportant, i downplayed the role size has when judging how important it is.
Don’t try to straw man.
I didn’t mention Arathi alone. And unless you have some tangible proof, the one that commands the defence of Arathi isn’t the one in charge of Hammerfall (which didn’t have that big of a presence to begin with). It’s Eitrigg, Rokhan, etc. Kalimdor generals.
And the supplies aren’t coming from Hammerfall, as we land on said area with a flying ship and are sending our contributions from Zuldazar and the army gathered there.
But again, Arathi was just ONE instance. What about Stormsong? Silverpine? Hillsbrad? Nazmir?
And at this point, I want a proof that shows they aren’t.
If actually military operations around the globe and the most relevant war effort plots count for nothing, then apparently you seem to be implying that the Horde accomplished all this with the minority of their faction.
Your only counter are two lousy quotes from a book that reference their current stance at that time, and ignore the subsequent movements that took months, days or weeks to come to pass and that happened before or during these mission table events.
Holding the ground, and killing the Alliance leadership aren’t mutually exclusive arguments.
Its hilarious that you keep on arguing how they were indeed in Ashenvale without as much as a source and ignoring pretty much every war plot that has the Horde moving elsewhere, but oh well.
Apparently for you it’s sensible for them to stay wearing their butts of while the war rages elsewhere.
Baine is a Tauren, and Lor’themar a blood elf. Neither are unicorns.
Yeah. That’s still not ‘crushing’. Can’t see the ‘crushing’.
Still no crushing. Who do you quantify heavy? How many losses are required to go from Heavy to Very Heavy?
Still, no crushing. It’s not as if they said Massive or anything of the sort.
Do you have an actual source that clarifies how long it took the Alliance to muster their forces for the assault on Undercity? Because otherwise the trip from Orgrimmar to UC is roughly as long as the one from Stormwind.
And where did i talk about teleporting?
Yeah, the army left. The forces harassing Horde soldiers.
No I dont. I already said that the holdings you fondly talk about aren’t important strategical spots. I would understand if the Horde didn’t bother with them. Again, Ashenvale was a mere stepping stone. And they currently hold the important ones.
Minus Astranaar. But again, that’s something easily countered by Silverwind.
The rest? Irrelevant. Saurfang didn’t even bother sending the army, and settled with conscripted rogues to keep them busy.
Not talking about the War of Thorns. Talking about how it would have surely landed once the Horde retreated to defend UC.
Abandoned by the army. By the sentinels and scouts that ambushed Horde soldiers.
You just quoted the piece in which I say they were defeated…
They lost. And left.
Of course there were casualties. As were for the Alliance.
But the army wasn’t decimated or crushed to the last man. The premise for the whole thing already painted a retreating scenario.
After Jaina breached the wall, Sylvanas detonates blight bombs to hold them back while the rest of the army retreated. Then, Saurfang stays behind to do the same.
They gave up and left. Gave up the land (scorched land tactic), and left (evacuated the bulk during the siege, and then the rest while Sylvanas, Saurfang and the Blight held them back).
So, just as important. goes back to Zarao claiming Astranaar is unimportant. So, it isn’t?
What if they give up and leave?
The Alliance holds a minimum of 4 outposts, one being one of the two major outposts. You initially began this thread by claiming the Alliance has a single settlement. Further more, they are attacking Horde outposts. Who knows, the Horde might decide to give up and leave. According to the map I provided, the Horde also does not really hold much more ground then the night elves.
You posted a source claiming that Astranaar and Silverwind are the two major Ashenvale bases, then you began bashing Astranaar because that’s the Alliance one.
This one from you, once more.
Burden of proof is on you.
One Horde outpost.
Held by the Forsaken, not the Kalimdor Horde.
Held by the Forsaken, not the Kalimdor Horde.
Elite squad of Darkspear Shadow hunters, not the majority of the Kalimdor Horde. Burden of proof on you.
Now, this is precious. God exists. Now Zarao, my proof for the fact that God exists it that you can not prove it does not exist. You are at this level of debating right now.
Yes, lousy book. A Good War and the Elegy sure are lazy books, and portals didn’t work for days because the Alliance gave up and left at Teldrassil.
But y-you said t-they, gave up and left. Amma die of laughter, this is comedy gold.
Sing-song voice Burden of proof is on you.
Yeah, they also had a teleport to an Airship. Excuse me, I might be wrong, but you can’t really fit an army into that airship.
Semantics. I still can’t see “gave up and left” for the record.
The two lousy books you now hate, namely the Elegy and a Good War claim that moving forces to the other continent is rather difficult.
You talked about instant teleportation above. Unless you gave up and left.
The source says that the Army completely withdrew from Ashenvale.
And you base these claims on what? Who are you to say what is strategically important, further more, you claim the Horde is attacking them. Why is the Horde attacking strategically non-important spots?
The rogues were repelled on a lot of places. That 8 on 1 does sound like he didn’t bother too! But I guess the night elves…gave up and …left.
Where did I claim the settlement itself was unimportant? Mind quoting it?
I remember saying it was either just as important as Silverwind or relatively speaking, wasn’t as important when compared to the cumulative holdings the Horde had.
…and started arguing against your initial claim about how Astranaar was the important one. Here, your quotes:
Again, strawman.
——-
Are you laughing at me? That’s what the video is about?
No, it’s not. You just now started addressing the rest of the arguments. And are willingly turning a blind eye to the ‘burden’ you have regarding what started of with one of YOUR statements.
I’ve yet to see a single thing that points at the Horde army staying in Kalimdor.
Regarding the rest, given the mission table for EK the Forsaken aren’t the only ones pulling their weight around, Stormsong isn’t some minor thing (It’s the bulk of the war effort on Kul Tiras), and Nazmir isn’t just the elite.
Also, 8.1 references the fact that the Alliance needs to lure the Horde army out of Zuldazar and into Nazmir. It doesn’t reference a piece, or a segment, it references the whole thing.
Funny, because that has been your own stance during this whole discussion.
I said lousy quotes. Generic.
Didn’t talk about the whole book.
I’m not going to bother describing the whole scenario. Or why it’s sensible to hold the ground while they evacuate the rest of the army.
Or how the battle flow may require the factions to work in different ways around the same strategy.
I’ll just add that sensible people, adapt and act depending on what the situation demands.
What may have started as something that requires them to hold their ground, might have ended with them realising it was futile and shifted to other kind of tactic.
The final result is the same: they ended up giving up and leaving before they suffered more casualties.
Are you intentionally nitpicking because you lack arguments and are trying some sort of red herring? Or I simply didn’t make myself clear regarding said events?
Usually when someone has played over certain plot, they don’t need this sort of clarification.
You are just trying to ridicule something I didn’t even say. That’s the literal definition of strawman.
What? Me addressing some absurd mocking of the situation suddenly makes me talk about teleportation?
I didn’t.
And prior to that, where did I? You seemed to reference the fact I did it prior.
Correct.
They aren’t, hence why Sylvanas and Varok are satisfied with the ones they brought down.
Who am I to say they aren’t strategically important? Some player that points at the fact that those you referenced aren’t even named hubs, we can’t really point at where they are. And even you said you don’t consider them important:
And? It still shows how unimportant Saurfang considered those settlements. He didn’t even bother invading or claiming them.
?
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
)![:kissing_smiling_eyes:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/kissing_smiling_eyes.png?v=6" ":kissing_smiling_eyes:")