"We rather you don't play horde"

[Tahri-grim-batol]

Other concerns aside, there was blood elf themed questing gear datamined as well, so no, the sets are not all void-elf and therefore, alliance themed.

Enjoy Blood Elf and Void Elf Transmogs from Quest Gear in Midnight

[Rexfu-draenor]

Not the same, Sylvanas had left the Horde by then and all the horde leaders did was sit in oribos. we didn’t follow them for the whole expansion

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Rexfu-draenor

Not the same

Yes it is.
And the fact that you don’t see that, make YOU biased.

[Rexfu-draenor]

No it isn’t, we just got done following alliance characters in every TWW zone

Was Sylvanas horde in shadowlands yes or no? If no which horde leader did we follow around in SL?

[Keento-argent-dawn]

@Tah-earthen-ring

YOU are being disingenuous.

For the last few expansions, the story hasn’t been about ‘the factions’ at all.
It’s been about these ‘new’ groups/people/civilizations that we encounter and help out.
It’s been about this baddy doing baddy things.

Neither faction did much more than the other.
Just because some of the characters that were focussed on are ‘alliance alligned or alliance leaning’ doesn’t mean it was ‘about the alliance’.

Just like Shadowlands’ focus on Sylvanas wasn’t ‘about the horde’.

That’s…not entirely true either.

Dragonflight, especially when Ami’drassil was introduced, was fully focused on the night elves. We especially went back to Ardenweald to get Ysera and have the lovey-dovey couple play center stage on taking her place to protect the new World Tree and become the night elf home.

The Horde had 0 presence in this.

TWW: We’ve basically been following around Alliance heroes and affiliates across the Isle. The Horde showed up at the very beginning and since then, has played 0 meaningful presence in the ENTIRE expansion.

That’s the last two expansions where Horde players have been nothing but bystanders with 0 representation. Not that I didn’t enjoy K’aresh and some other references being thrown back, but faction representation for Horde compare to the Alliance being in the spotlight….is honestly not a fun thing

[Nîghtfall-emerald-dream]

Let me play alliance tauren already.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Keento-argent-dawn

Dragonflight, especially when Ami’drassil was introduced, was fully focused on the night elves.

Fully is not true.
It was still about the dragonflights and about the emerald dream being threatened; far broader themes than ‘night elves’.

And yeah nigh elves got crappy ‘capital’ that isn’t used by anyone, that’s small and boring and haphazardly thrown together, that horde can use too. So tell me again how this is alliance bias?

@Keento-argent-dawn

The Horde had 0 presence in this.

Because since BfA the night elves had gone without a home. That’s why.
Blizzard was bribing night elf players into ‘throwing them a bone’ after feeling slighted (you know, the whole: Oh Sylvanas, you burned a world tree and slaughtered the majority of our people; go pick up some souls for a while…). While the horde had already had their ‘sort of reclaiming’ the Undercity questline. That’s why.

@Keento-argent-dawn

TWW: We’ve basically been following around Alliance heroes and affiliates across the Isle. The Horde showed up at the very beginning and since then, has played 0 meaningful presence in the ENTIRE expansion.

And ‘the alliance’ hasn’t either. Those heroes have, yes.
Those heroes ‘are not the alliance’. That’s my point.

And I’ve already admitted in various threads that I’d rather see seperate campaigns for the factions. Not because I really care about that personally; but at least it would make replaying the campaign more interesting and varied.

But Blizzard is cheaping out. THAT is the real issue.
I thought we had established that already?

[Keento-argent-dawn]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Fully is not true.
It was still about the dragonflights and about the emerald dream being threatened; far broader themes than ‘night elves’.

And yeah nigh elves got crappy ‘capital’ that isn’t used by anyone, that’s small and boring and haphazardly thrown together, that horde can use too. So tell me again how this is alliance bias?

• Horde can’t use the NPCs
• Horde gets a debuff being watched and unwelcome

100% Alliance bias, since that place is completely useless to any Horde character.
It’s great for flying in, collecting the 6 transmog items, and never set foot there again.

@Tah-earthen-ring

Because since BfA the night elves had gone without a home. That’s why.
Blizzard was bribing night elf players into ‘throwing them a bone’ after feeling slighted (you know, the whole: Oh Sylvanas, you burned a world tree and slaughtered the majority of our people; go pick up some souls for a while…). While the horde had already had their ‘sort of reclaiming’ the Undercity questline. That’s why.

We…never reclaimed the Undercity, like Night-elves we need to use the damn dragon to timetravel and get to it… We….rguably got a better result I suppose, but both stories were 100% garbage.

@Tah-earthen-ring

And ‘the alliance’ hasn’t either. Those heroes have, yes.
Those heroes ‘are not the alliance’. That’s my point.

Your de facto leader is not the Alliance ?!

The literal son of king Wryn is not Alliance?
The leader of your void elf faction is not the Alliance ?
The former leader of Ironforge is not the Alliance?

Those three we constantly follow around across the isle..those three are not Alliance?

[Rexfu-draenor]

Baine liked that

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Keento-argent-dawn

It’s great for flying in, collecting the 6 transmog items, and never set foot there again.

Same for alliance then.
It’s a useless place for anyone.
Except RPers who are willing to travel to the edge of the map of a ‘continent’ nobody uses anymore.

@Keento-argent-dawn

We…never reclaimed the Undercity

You did. The top of it anyway.
The bottom needs cleaning.

@Keento-argent-dawn

but both stories were 100% garbage.

We can agree on that.
So: Equal treatment.

@Keento-argent-dawn

Your de facto leader is not the Alliance ?!

I’m going to be ‘that guy’ and point out that during DF the ‘alliance leader’ was nowhere to be seen - not the ‘former’ one and not the one sitting on the throne in the meanwhile.

He’s not the leader of the alliance in TWW yet either; he hasn’t taken back that mantle.
Because he’s still working through his issues. So technically he isn’t even alliance in TWW; he’s abandoned his post, so to speak.

You remember who talked him into ‘helping’?
Right… A ‘horde’ guy.

@Keento-argent-dawn

The leader of your void elf faction is not the Alliance ?
The former leader of Ironforge is not the Alliance?

They are not ‘the alliance’.
Sigh… I’m sick of talking about this because I really don’t care.
If we had been following Thrall around, that would have been fine with me too.

One campaign experience is just objectively worse than two.
And I’ll leave it at that.

[Rexfu-draenor]

@Tah-earthen-ring

You remember who talked him into ‘helping’?
Right… A ‘horde’ guy.

That’s what thrall does, he tells you what to do and takes the rest of the day off. I’m starting to understand why he made Gallywix a race leader

[Sylvare-argent-dawn (Sylvare)]

I’ve gotta say it seeing people go back and forth over the new dragon tree.

Belameth was an insult to everyone involved.

From the nelves getting their new capital in a expansion zone that was lukewarm at best because ‘no it’ll be evergreen guys we’ll totally come back’

to the horde that can just roam around there (they should be hostile to us we burned the last one into ashes why are you condoing me are you suicidal?)

If either faction suffers, that means that factions playerbase often will suffer with it, if the imbalance between factions becomes to great, usually both factions suffer in some extend (the one thats being emptied out admittedly more then the one that isn’t) but thats just a matter of time of the problem catching up to the other faction

Also anduin is still high king, Turalyon is a Regent, who is someone who rules in absence of a king in service to said king.

[Sahaan-argent-dawn]

As someone that has been around for some time, it is always interesting to see this pendulum swing.

That said, I’m not necessarily saying that Alliance characters and intrigues haven’t been at the forefront for a while now. I’m inclined to agree. But for the longest time, the developers were accused of Horde bias en masse.

So much so that in 2011 Dave Kosak wrote a Dev Watercooler on the subject to try and stem the tide and the loud outcry of favoritism between the two factions.

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/3992143/dev-watercooler-faction-favoritism

This is a pendulum that swings back and forth as the years pass.

And the longer you’re around the more often you see it swing the other way.

[Cedricwolfe-ravencrest]

Right, because a housing system designed for both factions, but having a emphasis on Alliance aesthetics is exactly the same as walking into a capital city that’s literally owned by another faction. Totally comparable, obviously.

[Jarista-stormrage]

@Sahaan-argent-dawn

This is a pendulum that swings back and forth as the years pass.

And the longer you’re around the more often you see it swing the other way.

Yeah, we spent several years with the Alliance’s only role being cleaning up the mess left behind by the conquest-mania of Garrosh (And later Sylvanas), and Alliance questing being inferior to the point of seeming like an afterthought (Being flown into a questing zone by a webcomic character who “comedically” crashed his plane while drunk, since he was a Dwarf, drunkenness was the only hook they could come up with)

And now we’ve swapped focus from the “Horde” Windrunner-sister to the supposedly “Alliance” one, the pendulum swung again, and it will eventually favour Horde again, once we face a threat that’s more in the Horde’s area of expertise. (They’re sadly lacking in people versed in Void-matters)

[Alagondar-ravencrest]

@Rexfu-draenor

Not counting teldrassil because.. y’know

One of your old flames there??

[Warlóór-steamwheedle-cartel]

Said hub is current capital of the best horde race

[Alfiriniel-silvermoon]

I miss those days…

[Yzillar-ravencrest]

I’ve seen so many people upset alliance is getting additional race/class combos and horde isn’t but don’t people know that horde currently has more? This will just even it out more.

[Belorious-aerie-peak]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Blizzard cheaped out.
We should have gotten 6 starting zones.
3 for the horde, including an updated Quel’thalas and Silvermoon.
3 for the alliance, including an updated Azuremyst/Bloodmyst isle and Exodar.

But they didn’t do that. Because we only get 4 zones now in an expansion.
That’s not bias. That’s cheaping out.

Before the reveal I was expecting Stratholme and the Plaguelands to get an update of sorts to serve as the new Alliance hub for midnight but they haven’t touched it yet. Wonder what their plan is, maybe future patch content? You probably could of got 1 or 2 zones out of that place that then would of mirrored Eversong and Zul’Aman, with Harandar + Voidstorm being the the shared third and fourth zones.

At first glance it does seem like we’re getting less content (zone wise) compared to previous xpacs such as BFA with it’s two hub cities and 6 zones right from the start. I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision was influenced in part by some cost cutting measure.

So then we end up with the situation of having a lot of Alliance cast getting shoe-horned into the main story of what should be a more horde centric area. As they now have to balance it out for both factions, with void elves, Arator and Windrunners being the connection.