Ok i will give you a few examples why your conclusion is extremely flawed.
We can be reasonably certain that LFR is the raid in retail that get cleared the most. Yet it is logged the least, because mostly people doing LFR don’t care the same about logs and performance.
Classic, with only 1 difficulty you just need 1 person in your raid team to care about it and it’s logged.
So in retail most runs aren’t logged if you add LFR.
Opposite for classic.
Additionally, classic has only 2 paths to bis gear, raid or pvp. Therefor more people feel forced to do either content for said gear. Where retail has another option, M+, so some people people chose to forgo raiding entirely because they don’t have to. Where in classic they’re forced to.
TLDR
Participation doesn’t equal preference or even enjoyment of said content.
All retail players chose a covenant, does that mean covenants is an incredible system that we all enjoy?
In 2009 Ulduar was probably the raid I most wanted to get over with, long slog of a raid and farming shards. I had fun but it just has too much trash and took so much time. You can’t imagine how much more I enjoyed T9 where I could just enter a raid and fight really cool bosses with no trash and get some really cool items (the weapons had amazing designs, the 50 attempts bow is the best looking bow in the game on Horde).
People say that you had to do 4 lockouts, but any decent raid guild would have pretty much skipped entirely over 10man normal and just did 10man HC + 25man normal until they were geared enough to do 25man HC, which was really tough so a lot of casual guilds were pretty much only farming 10hc and 25man normal. 25man normal was extremely easy and took probably less time than running the first 2 bosses of Ulduar, most of your time was spent working on Heroic achievements, or gearing alts.
And then you had ICC, where Heroic and Normal shared a lockout, you could only kill one or the other each week, exactly like Ulduar hardmodes aside from not activating the hardmode during the normal encounter.
Same. Trial of the Crusader was one of my most favourite raids ever. I was also digging the area of the Argent Tournament a lot as well. Nice place with nice atmosphere – but I’ll hate the jousting dailies until my dying breath.
Vault of Archavon was OK although I couldn’t take seriously the availability of raid depending on who won a world PvP battle but hey. It was tolerable.
I feel the same . ToC was a good riad only let down by the tier sets looking the same for each armour type and being bland but some really good fights in there.
btw no one is forcing anyone, that is rush of feelings that competitive mindset pushes you, and cripples you from inside, because if you act compulsivly as an compulsion you are crippled by something, that is how I see it, if you are not aware of something you are no more then animal… Same goes when someone because of competitive mindset starts raging in chat or in his thoughts and feelings, or even little bit of rage it is that lack of being aware, and if you attack someone and cross the line, that means that person doesnt have compassion, so we need to fix things up because no one is pushing you to play in a certain way, and that is why all this debate going on about having ammo or not having ammo is false because no one is pushing anyone to buy better performance ammo… I hope you do it clearly as I do now.
Well w/e you want to call it I don’t really care. It’s part of life doing something you may not particularly like in order to reach a goal you really want to reach for w/e reason.
It happens everyday… I might not love all my veggies, but they’re healthy…
Your pretty wall of text disguised as wisdom doesn’t really change that. Retail has more options to reach certain goals, that way people have more choice on how to reach said goal.
Except wotlk private servers have more people playing,than classic vanilla and tbc combined,for over a decade.
Most of those players will come to classic wotlk (the only expansion they actually care about) and private wotlk servers will vanish,same as vanilla and tbc.
There are no cata servers,no mop servers,no wod servers,no legion servers and no bfa servers.
Actually they do exist but population is from 20 to 100 people max.
I have been playing on private servers most of my wow ‘‘career’’ and only expansion that was constant troughout all these years was WOTLK.
Most people will quit retail and switch to wotlk because there’s absolutely nothing on retail that’s worth sticking around for.
30 minutes epic bg queues,WTS spams in group finder in which 15 out of 16 groups are WTS,new raid 0 items drop-10 boss kills,mythic+ horrendous drops,population droping every day,barely any dungeon queues when you level,gathering system that’s been added to favor multiboxers and billion other things…
they are just being compulsive and that is the truth.
no one is forcing anyone to do anything, in fact if game is too time consuming and you have no time then please don’t play it.
they didn’t add ammo to force players to farm them for the sake of reasons of forcing them to do it, they added it because all classic mmos were realistic, you can see that in every little part of vanilla wow. Even in dota one, you can see how items were categorized in specific groups such as armorsmith sold armor only, weaponsmith weapon, trinket vendor only trinkets, etc, where in dota 2 format you can see all items on one space because of many reasons of convenience, that is why I don’t like new games, it is all about convenience, I had zero problems buying things and managing items in dota 1… It is all that new player experience logic which I don’t agree with.
Well, a lot of it just nostalgia, of how good it was back in a day, when we with the boys just log in and have fun.
Shocker for a lot of gamers - people still do that - log in with the boys and have fun.
Ofc WoLTK was fun, kinda easy raids, etc., but it won’t be the same as it used to be. It had its grinds, tons of dailies, huge pvp inbalances (shadowmournes go brrrr), etc.
Gameplay vise for me MoP had the best balance between raid difficulty/complexity/grinds/loot amounts/etc. The theme of the xpac ofc may be questioned, but systems vise for me it was golden. I just hope classic one day reaches MoP.
P.S. I will play woltk ofc, for the sake of nostalgia, but I don’t have high hopes.
You just described retail though… atm classic wow has more players than retail. Stop this nostalgia argument, people genuinily prefer the classic over retail as they prefer ffxiv and other MMOs…
Now that wotlk will have proper lfg random que for dungeons and dual spec prepare for double pooulation for classic. I am not even thinking the possibility to add transmog and new race models, then they might get a jackpot!
The poster who you are replying to didn’t start, by their own admission until Cata, so nostalgia doesn’t come into it.
I loved Wrath, enjoyed the whole experience from start to finish, with some of the best raids ever created (Ulduar and ICC), but having experienced the disappointment of Classic and TBC Classic, I don’t think I will go back to it personally if they did release a Wrath classic, Rose Tinted Glasses etc, no matter what others may say, is a valid term.
Have they actually announced Wrath Classic, and if so which patch will be the launch patch so to speak? Maybe they will just jump straight into ICC patch?
It will initialy, same as old school clasic did, but eventualy it will fade, we saw the same with vannila and Burning crusade. But Wotlk i think will do slightly better than them. That is about it.
