Most people I’ve spoken too found Ulduar more enjoyable than ICC. Typically, “the” raid of an expansion is your most memorable one, not generally the last.
My “raid” of Casterclysm was Firelands for example, not Dragonsoul. Most people will think of Molten Core and Ragnaros for Classic, rather than Naxxramas. Same with TBC and Black Temple, rather than Sunwell.
The damage of no RDF is already done too… all players gone to “mega servers” in order to be able to find groups all the time… also all servers now are 1 faction dominated because of no rfd…
I dont know why they dont see all the damage the “no rdf” is bringing…
After ICC came out everything dropped the triumph.
It was Heroism → Valor → Conquest → Triumph → Frost.
When Triumph was added Heroism and Valor didn’t drop anymore.
It was 232 for HC. The Triumph vendor was selling 245 items with 232 tier pieces. So those were still better and much more deterministic to acquire. Also T9 had set bonus which the dungeon loot didn’t have.
Wow, really? Ulduar was hardcore hell! You had to get the guild online like 5-6 nights a week in order to clear the damn thing before reset, there were just so MANY bosses! And they could all be fought in like 3-4 different hard modes. Almost all. Heh.
Y for me the first tier of Cataclyms was superior to anything before and after frankly. Together with starting state of Cata heroics, I remember it to this day even after more than a decade passed; )
I’m not arguing that the gear from 5-man HC was better than the Crusader/Onyxia-level stuff, absolutely not. I’m saying that the ICC 5-mans could be run over-and-over to get decent enough gear to get through the doors of the citadel, because of the dungeon finder. Without those dungeons and the dungeon finder people would be farming for atleast two months after dinging 80, and probably more, before getting through the door.
Let me copy this from wowhead
The post you are replying to (unless there was one deleted in the short time between you posting yours and me posting this) was referring to getting them back in patch 3.2, when conquest dropped from heroics, and triumph were rewards from raids or the daily heroic. Saying “or you could” makes it sound like you are comparing like to like, which you arent. What might have been more helpful, rather than just state the obvious (and to be honest, you keep saying “take some friends or guildmates” like it helps a lot - it only makes a difference to queue times if they are a healer/tank and you are dps only) would be stating how many you get from dungeons, so that people have and idea how many they need to run if they did want that 210 for full T9;
Dungeon Min bosses Max Bosses
Azjol Nerub 3 3
Azjol Nerob:Old Kingdom 3 5
Drak’Tharon Keep 2 4
Gundrak 4 6
CoT: Strat 4 5
The Nexus 5 5
Utgarde Keep 3 3
Utgarde Pinnacle 2 4
Trial of the Champion 3 3
The Occulus 4 4
Halls of Stone 2 4
Halls of Lightning 3 4
Forge Of Souls 2 2
Pit of Saron 3 3
Halls of Reflection 3 3
Unless I havent forgotten anything, this would average at about 3 per minimum clear, and 4 per full clear. If you picked your dungeons all the time, it would take you 70 minimum clear runs and about 55 max clear runs (assuming you randomly picked yourself which one you had). What is probably more usefull is taking into account the extra emblems from doing the random dungeon (which would also add and extra 2 to Occulus as you get that as a reward from doing it as a random). So, you now get on average 5 per min clear, and 6 per max clear. This now makes it 42 minimum clear runs to get full T9, and 35 maximum clear runs to get full t9. In reality, it will probably take a few more runs than this (but is also possible to take less) depending how many times you run per day, but that’s enough maths for now!
You can target those 3 HCs once a day. After that, it’s random whether you get it or not.
So chances are you’d be running the old dungeons most of the time and just receiving emblems.
Without RDF you still can run every dungeon once a day. Nothing is stopping you from doing it.
It would take you 2 months to get full T9 if you only did a single dungeon each day. If you only did the daily HC, even that would mean you’d have 120 emblems of frost and you could already buy some T10 items as well.
So gearing wise nothing would really change. Except if you’re lucky and get the 3 new dungeons multiple times a day, but that’s still random. The only thing this allows is skipping the effort of looking for a group by just automating it.
It wasn’t random though. You could select the dungeons you were queuing for, and only the HCs were on lockout. The normals you could run over and over, only targeting the new ones, and get gear good enough for ICC10. Which, as I said (and basically Blizzard too, in the patch notes), was the reason for introducing the dungeon finder.
Edit: I just realized what you mean. When running randoms, you got some extra badges as a reward, didn’t you?
Help me, which sentence is implying this?
~https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_3.3.0#Cross-Realm_Dungeon_Finder
Normals dropped 219 which is Ulduar 10 man loot. So very far away from the 251 dropped from 10 man ICC. Even ToC 10 man loot is a bit low for that.
So realistically you’d run the 3 new HCs for a chance for gear and all dungeons/raids for emblems.
Yes, you’d get 2 extras at the end. But that is stated in the quoted text. With the +2 bonus it would take you around 1,5 months with a single dungeon a day.
Having refreshed my memory a bit it turns out it was the ICC 5-mans that had ilvl requirements, and that what you did as a fairly new 80 was grind out the gear needed to get in, and then rinse/repeat on normal. As the ilvl 219 gear dropped on normal was a massive upgrade from the stuff you realistically could access as a non-raider on a young lvl 80 it was kind of the minimal acceptable stuff in order to contribute in ICC10 runs.
I’m still not sure what you’re arguing though. That ICC10/25 gear is better than the ICC 5-man gear? Or that you can get better gear by grinding out emblems? Both is true, and neither is what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about the dungeon finder being introduced in order to help people gear up quickly for ICC10.
For 13 days wanted to understand people why they do not want RFD and what are the reasons for it. Sometimes I had some debates, sometimes got angry how people can’t stood up what just they said, sometimes trolled other people but in the end as a player that played retail from starting to waiting to buy my Collector’s Edition box to Cataclysm launch, played on several pservers that most of you won’t care and don’t like and honestly idc about it but simply Wotlk was my best expansion that I played in WoW and one the best games I’ve ever played.
Most of the people came here to bash my head that I want a RFD but post was not about it but simply saying these problems will happen cause of absence of RFD and wanted a feedback on people that does want RFD. These are listed below;
These are all of the suggestions that you people don’t want to lose the social interaction between but while you can’t simply debate on how wrong on my claims. But mean while already seen people suffering some of the issues on top already or we did on tbc classic or we will have in wotlk.
This topic was not about making anti rdf people to turn it pro rdf or something. Even there are %95 of the people Blizzard simply won’t do it cause it can hurt their boosts sell which is the most usage of RDF. It was like I said simply want to see your insight but we are truly the most toxic gaming community that exist.
I would like to finish with I hope the reasons that list won’t happen and Wotlk classic will be even better journey for most of you than retail.
Wotlk hype wotlk hype wotlk hype
As a meh-sayer to RDF, i have to say it IS very convenient. Instead of continuously pasting in LFG, you can just que up, alt-tab and watch Netflix. If it’s cross-realm it might even speed things up for people wanting unpopular dungeons.
On the other hand, QoL-changes like this is what slowly turned the game into a watered down, drive-through slot machine. I’m on the fence as to why things has to be constantly entertaining, effortless and instantly accessible, all the time.
I don’t always enjoy LFG, but if i can’t find anything within 5-10 minutes, i move on to an alt or log off. If i do find a group, i’m rewarded by the effort i put in. I certainly don’t sit around spamming LFG for 3 hours (as some apparently do.) That’s just… weird.
There will be a redesigned LFG tool though, no need to spam in LFG chat. It does what dungeon finder did, except for creating groups automatically or teleporting you. You’ll have to click those you want to include in your group, and use the old fashioned summoning stones, like the good old days 
Have you tried the new LFG tool? It’s on the PTR. It disputes your sentiment.
It doesn’t remotely do what RDF did. Not even close.
It lets you pick the dungeons you want to run and what roles you need. Then others will find your entries if it overlaps with theirs, and they can request an add. Which you can then approve or reject.
It’s basically the same thing, except it doesn’t make decisions for you.
It’s a backwards version of the retail tool. It lists you people rather than activities.
It doesn’t even automatically refresh. It’s going to be utterly useless on big servers. It’s not going to be a functional and useful tool.
It lists people who are looking for the same activities as you. What’s wrong with that? Just set your filters correctly.
Neither does retail and people still use it. It’s even cross-server. Also pressing a button isn’t that hard.
Megaservers are a player generated problem. People there want only the benefits of a large playerbase without any of the drawbacks.
I don’t disagree, but Blizzard allowed it to happen and they’re building a tool for this very situation.
That we can agree on.
Yes, dps specs would get a loot bag and some badges for doing what was essentially the dungeon daily. Tanks and healers were eligible to receive the bonus more than once I think as an incentive for healers and tanks to use the tool.