What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?


(Anouk) #41

When the Horde is annihilated and all their leaders & races are vanquished from Azeroth.

lmao no let’s be real here:
Repay? Why is that important?
Do I magically stop slaughtering Horde mongrels just because we blew up one of their ugly cities?

Hey friendly greenskin! You burned our tree, so I nuked Orgrimmar! Now we can have a tea party and live in peace! yaaay! :face_vomiting:

I don’t really care about Teldrassil or BBQ elves and I certainly don’t need it as a reason to wage war against the Horde.


(Xarthat) #42

It can never be repaid. It should be repaid, because every response will only trigger another act of reprisal. It should be punished.

Sylvanas should die and her spirit should be trapped so she can’t go and conquer Shadowlands with her will or something. Nathanos should die. His spirit can stay, he’s a little b****, he won’t do squat there. Everyone that enabled their reign of terror should be imprisoned or killed. And the Horde… must be dismantled. Nothing good ever came out of it. It was an organization set up by war criminals and world destroyers, it was continued by aimless generals and blind idealists, and it continues to fall on its head at the slightest provocation.


#43

Yes and after they shoud have gotten out.
But they didnt.
Officaly the horde call’s them an rogue clan where unofficaly it is thanks for the
wood.

To be fair vo’jin wanst warchief yet and unlike most warchief he knew when to shallow his pride.
I can see how it would hurt a faction as pridefull as the horde but it doesnt makes up for 3 invasion 2 nukes(tedrassil hadnt happen yet)

And so do many alliance over the long history of warcraft.
Jaina, Kelgar, Malfurion, etc.

We had just came from seige of orgrimmar and had out fill of orc’s controling the story.
And what do we get?
More orc’s too prove they are unredeemly evil.
Moviest about the iron horde chieftans, first thing we do is save the dreanei(again blizzard stop making most alliance quests us saving our npc)
While on the horde side you get stuck with thrall self pity.
We both suffer through that story but in the end it was a story about orc’s.

Cataclysm: Horde attacks the alliance inflict massive damage and the alliance get to help vol’ijn reclaiming a horde city
Mist of pandaria:
We are send to deal with emperor varian run away child.
Where the horde gets to have vo’ijn little revolution, Lor’themar threating the lich queen and the lich queen raises alliance soldiers.
And warlords of dreanor are about orc’s feeling bad about themself.
If we talk about spot light hogging.
Legion was the only alliance focesed one to date.

Counter:

Yeah funny how the siege of ogrimar when from most orc’s to a few loyalists.
Or how the iron horde was pressented(poorly) as a major threat.
And the legion being a minnor threat?
They scourge entire worlds of life, Had an infinite army and space ships.
The fact they lost so easly is more blizzard unselling the legion then anything else.
If anything the horde shoud have been reduce to barely enough numbers to fill ogrimar but blizzard doesnt do numbers.
As for you losing.
That is more a reaction to the outcry that was tedrasill then anything else.

Execpt that it is always the alliance that get there stuff destroyed.
And the horde has so far lost what 1 hunter camp?

Sorry i got a bit angry.
Happends when the horde refuses to admit there many crimes vs the alliance.
I do not deny that the alliance commited crime against the horde but the sheer volume of stuff the horde get away with is the reason i want to stop caring about the lore.


(Ghimrizz) #44

Hmm once the Horde finnish the job perhaps? I don’t know I used to really like Night elves(well the elven lore in general tbh.) Then something changed when they just keep increasing the amount of elves… elves everywhere, void elves, bloody elves, old ancient elves, bloody undead elves, vampiric elves, demonic elves… what’s next? Half-elves?(Ohh well nvm they already exist)

In general Elves are a dying race, they have been on the brink of extinction, but yet elves seem more resilient then roaches…How do Night elves even have a population to spare to send off as a suicied force at this point(pre Battle of Dazar’Alor campaign). Elves also reproduce very slowly… which makes it even more silly.

Night elves are the elven race who kept on suffer time and time again. Now they lost their home and who knows how much of their remaining fringe population. So Teldrassil will be repayed once Horde finnish the job already…

I’m so tierd of elves and i seriously don’t understand why the remaining population ain’t already in cages to protect them from their own eagerness to run off to die everywhere.


(Frozengrip) #45

It is always fun seeing threads like these.

Yes they should even if it sucks for the Horde players what have to endure this. But it also sucks for the people which had their land destroyed, plagued and burnt along with a majority of its population.
Not to mention in one of the worst stories told in WoW so far.

Knowing Blizzard we’ll just get this

and everything is forgiven, he is also Ashenvale and Stormgarde for balance.


(Zarao) #46

Teldrassil was already compensated materially speaking by Undercity, and military wise, with the siege of Dazar’alor.
If certain players feels that said events aren’t relevant or not enough because they didn’t feel as good as expected from a gaming perspective, I’d reconsider checking how most Horde players felt about the “victory” of Teldrassil.

And Undercity is/was just as important for Horde players as Teldrassil is/was for the Alliance.

Also, regarding the statements about making the Horde “pay” with certain characters: it’s just downright absurd how certain people equate losing an undefined, unknown, and completely malleable amount of NPCs that Blizzard can change/fix/replace/replenish on the fly, with the impact it would have storywise speaking, if the Horde was removed of the core characters that drive their story forward.
How impactful was it when the Dark Iron obliterated the whole Goblin expedition of Zuldazar? Would said loss be about as “fair” if someone demanded Moiras and most of the relevant Dark Iron characters death?
How much impact would said event have for the overall story of the race?


(Zarao) #47

There are a whole set of reasons as to why from a meta perspective, the loss of Teldrassil has been already compensated.

And if you want to argue from an ingame perspective, there is no such thing as karmic justice. Night elves can or may have to deal with the fact that war had a great impact on them specifically. Just as Forsaken have to deal with the invasion of their lands, the loss of their city, etc. Or Zandalari having their king killed.

If you, as Alliance player, feel unsatisfied with that, it doesn’t mean you are entitled to demand other Horde players to feel worse.

Your happiness doesn’t trump mine.

Otherwise, the other segment of the playerbase is about as entitled to demand compensation for their own issues and to make you feel bad about the issues they have suffered in this story.
When are we going to have a playable raid in an Alliance city? When are we going to kill a High King? When are we going to successfully triumph against the Alliance? When are we going to take advantage of an Alliance civil war? And so on.


(Elyssarain) #48

https://youtu.be/IXIGKT_gp4g?t=99


(Frozengrip) #49

And what are they exactly? SoL? SoD?

The Forsaken or Zandalari didn’t lose large parts of their population or their main armies with their cities being attacked. And Tirisfal was completely evacuated as when you go there in the scenario you are seeing the last of the citizens go.

Dazar’alor is a counter part to Boralas, what I might add suffered more from that siege then the battle as Dazar’alor, regardless if it wasn’t the Horde what did it.

What has been compensated exactly?

If you are talking from an in-game perspective then it doesn’t matter about your feelings or happiness. The Night Elves have become the incarnate of vengeance and they should have it. The Night Elves should get all their land back if they succed (which they should given the Hordes military might currently), this includes Azshara which they gave over for goodwill and all of Stonetalon.

But given their track history they’ll probably give more land to the Horde despite that races connection to the land being the deepest of all races in the game.

Yes, bad writing is bad writing. The reason why people hate BfA is because of bad writing. But people seem to be able to ignore bad writing when it benefits them. Winning and losing isn’t everything and should trump anything, it is about having a good story to begin with.

Story-wise the Alliance is winning, it has given the Horde so many chances to co-exist and near enough every turn they have stabbed a dagger into the Alliances back.

Story-wise why should the Alliance give the Horde more chances? Why should the Horde not be heavily punished for their actions, for once?

These are not me demanding questions for my personal benefit, these are questions that should be engulfing the in-game story and how it would naturally progress from.


(Zarao) #50

From a meta perspective, the Horde looses a city, and has an extra one raided. Blizzard says it was intentional to further compensate Teldrassil for those dissatisfied Alliance players that felt UC wasn’t enough.
And of course, that’s accompanied by a story that states the Alliance is winning the war.
Nothing comes without a cost.
Unless you are expecting a story that not only shows you victorious but that also compensates every drawback or loss you’ve had along the way.

To which I add again, your satisfaction as a player doesn’t trump mine.

Why? Why should they have such a story but the Horde have a punitive one?

You are taking for granted that the Alliance MUST win, that they MUST have a dominant position over the Horde, and therefore MUST carry overly punitive measures against the story of half the playerbase.

Sorry, but that doesnt work that way. You can win, you can pump your chest atop the moral high ground, but don’t expect the game to further punish half its players.
If you win, you’ll do so in a way that salvages and keeps Horde players happy too.

It sounds incredibly hypocritical to read how the Horde is supposed to repay Alliance players for making them feel bad…while arguing that it’s only natural for Horde players to feel even worse.


(Frozengrip) #51

Both new cities we subjected to attacks in either dungeon format or raid format so they at the very minimum cancel each other out, all you can argue out of this is one was an Alliance attack and another was a civil-war type thing, albeit that the person who did that has now aligned with the Horde. In terms of lore both cities were attacked and Boralas by the looks of it suffered more damage. Lastly Tirisfal wasn’t/isn’t permanently destroyed unlike Teldrassil along with the majority of its population, it was evacuated.

All you are saying is that it is compensated because the Alliance is winning, that isn’t how it works bud.

because you genocided their race lol.

The Alliance would win given their advantage in this war, it is the natural progress of how this war would win and is the most likely outcome, this is even before BfA begins.

The Horde (well Orcs) had to use conscription when fighting the Legion, the Alliance didn’t. That tells you enough about the military capacity.

If you want a story that the Horde somehow takes over the Alliance as the dominant power then it should be written in a way that allows it to happen, which feels natural and not so artificially forced as the WoT was to making the Horde look amazing and the Night Elves look incompetent beyond belief.

You don’t just wish for it and make it happen. “I think it is unfair that Germany was able to invade Denmark and take over the country in 4 hours so we are gonna somehow buff Denmark so that they can beat Germany and become the new blitz’ masters of Europe”.

I am arguing in terms of story, you are arguing it terms of person opinions and benefits. That is the difference.

I am not saying the Horde should be punished to benefit myself, I am saying that the Horde should be punished for its constant actions they have taken against the Alliance from a story-perspective and how it is illogical to think why the Alliance wouldn’t do this when they are in a position to finally stop this.


(Araphant) #52

These kinds of debates are silly, you can’t punish players on either side for what the writers are doing.

I myself would prefer a compromise in which neither faction would have to suffer things they utterly hate at this point.


(Frozengrip) #53

Ish. But it has become to late for that.

One side or both sides are going to get shafted from this war. Even if it is a even peace then a lot of people are going to get annoyed, and would once again take another blow to the story.

It is ultimately Blizzards fault for putting everyone in a position like this, but it cannot be undo. All you can do is cut the losses and I am just proposing taking from this sh*tshow the most natural way how the story should unfold from what it is currently being told.


(Araphant) #54

(Frozengrip) #55

(Elyssarain) #56

Until 2:15


(Zarao) #57

Because it is.
There hasn’t been a single war in history that didn’t entail heavy losses or some sort of drawback for the winning side.
This thread has devolved into how Blizzard should set up further scenarios that compensated every transgression (perceived or otherwise), the Alliance -players- have felt throughout this story.
The Alliance didn’t win by getting away Scot-free.

At this point, certain Alliance players are simply arguing how they aren’t winning nearly enough and how they need further compensation for every drawback they’ve met along the way in this conflict.

And they killed Rastakhan. When can I kill Jaina/Katherine?
When is the Alliance going to firebomb their own city to counter what happened in Uc?

Karmic justice doesn’t exist. The Alliance is winning this war. Deal with the fact that one of their drawbacks came in the form of heavy Night elf casualties.

All I hear from this paragraph onward is some heavy wistful thinking that considers as the only “natural” and “logic” progression, a story that shockingly enough should give the advantage to your preferred side of the narrativewho would’ve thunk!

Again, your satisfaction doesn’t trump mine.

I’d caution against that kind of “logic”.
If we used such, the Legion would’ve and should’ve wiped this planet. Twice.

Narrative is a thing.

While the opposite happening is just I unthinkable?
Night elves need to have their loss compensated ad infinitum?

This all sounds so incredibly egotistical and selfish. Like, really.

Horde players should feel twice as bad as Alliance ones and punished further in a story that has them already losing.
The Alliance must have a narrative that paints them as victorious, with the added fact of also being able to carry out punitive measures against the losing side of the playerbase.

Like, have you even considered how would you feel if the situation was reversed?

Given the fact that asking you to acknowledge a loss and settle with having a Horde capitol destroyed and an extra one raided as compensation is something simply off the table, it feels like you can’t look beyond your own nose.

Edit: And allow me to laugh at the whole “Natural progression of this story”. The Alliance is winning because of the same narrative that is making the Horde lose.

If tomorrow Blizzard added an Npc that said: “Your Majesty, our forces are stretched thin and the Horde is rallying their troops across both continents. We must withdraw from all fronts or they’ll completely destroy our armies. Victory is within their grasp.”
The Alliance would no longer be “naturally winning”.


(Rangoor) #58

Faction victim olympics the thread.

Be careful about wishing for “repayments” because those repayments will need to be repaid and then THOSE will need to be repaid. Pretty soon the only place left in the world is whatever the faction capital of the current expansion is, sounds like a fun game.


(Mithcha) #59

As has been said it’s already been re-payed from a purely eye for an eye view. I suppose morally there’s no real way to re-pay it… and why would you want to?

“they murdered thousands so we’ll murder thousands” doesn’t put you on the high ground or re-pay anything.

I suppose on an emotional level it might feel good, briefly, but when it comes to a head and it’s time to look back… well everybody is going to feel like a dung beetle. Only less happy to be in it.

I know my Dwarf couldn’t look back and say “well I’m sure glad we burnt down Ogrimmar and killed thousands, that feels so good” and be honest about it, regardless of what had happened before.

And gameplay wise it is re-payed, as the sky high elf laid out.


(Elyssarain) #60

Internment camps are a thing if the Horde is dismantled. Unpleasant but nobody -has- to die. I don’t know about you, but having Forsaken running around Blighting things is…terrible.