What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?

Lore Story
81

No mate, they were playing Magic: The Gathering…There was some nasty decks being put out there…

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82

Isn’t Kuru a prion disease mainly seen in tribes practising cannibalism of brain during funeral rites in Papa New Guinea (if by white meat, you mean brain)

Also, I think some may not want the moral high ground and rather want retribution. To quote Daelin:
“Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.”

And her being proven right feels hollow when the Horde has been committing atrocities one after another

83

It is, yep, that’s the one I was thinking of, although ‘the other white meat’ along with ‘Longpork’ is generally a term for human flesh, not just the brain, And they are the only sizeable culture known to still practice cannibalism, so kind of the only demographic available for study as it were.

If it is Retribution that is wanted, not Repaying, then yes, more needs to happen, that is however shifting the Alliance’s moral compass in a very dark fashion, that objectively would twist them. That’s Japan surrendering on VJ day, and the Americans going “Cool, but you killed a lot of people, so we still need to nuke two cities to kind of even it out” That’s the kind of level of evil the Alliance would have to descend to…I’m not sure its fans would be happy with that…

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84

Greedy and sadistic minds fighting over what gain they can get from the slaughter of my brethren… it sickens me. I respect Tyrande, my leader, and follow her, even though I have been disobedient to the Alliance in roleplaying and I don’t regret it. However there are limits to the vengeance that I can put up to. After serving Azeroth first and the Alliance second in war from the days of the Ahn’ Qiraji war effort, I’ve grown weary and sceptical of the strife between races. I used to hate the orcs chopping our forests down and still don’t like it but I will not lose myself in vengeance. There is honour to be found both in Alliance and Horde individuals and corruption too.

I’ve sided with Horde members to protect our planet and still do. I want this war to end. I want the destruction of life and civilization to stop. But I want Teldrassil to be avenged. How? Not through blind eye for eye warfare but to the root of the problem: eradicate the Forsaken who are loyal to Sylvanas and Sylvanas herself. Having studied the history of the Third War under the guidance of our elders I am sad to see the former High Elven ranger follow the path she is following. She leaves no will for her subjects, she enslaves them, like the Lich King. The rest of the Horde follows through a combination of delusions and fear. I can forgive that, of course I will protect my people with my bow and savagery but I want to forgive that.

But I can’t forgive that desecrating Banshee witch. She defiles not only Life itself, but the honour of the Horde, and there is honour in the Horde. The Argent Dawn (and the Ebon Hand, if they have truly repented of their ways) should interfere and end this wretched situation. Burn them all, leave no undead filth alive, reclaim their land, heal the Horde and finally end this divide. Let the Alliance and the Horde “die”, and join together under justice and peace. My people have things to share with the Tauren, even with the Orcs and the Trolls. Sometimes even more than with humans frowns. I can only hope that Tyrande sees this too. I’ve never crossed my leader openly in the past but I am afraid of vengeance.

Kael’thas, that other filth, was right in Magister’s Terrace. Vengeance burns, and it can consume us. Don’t let that happen allies. And when I say allies I speak to individuals, both in the Alliance, and in the Horde. Fight for a united, peaceful Azeroth. We still have common enemies to face. The Old Gods, the Naga Threat, we can’t afford this war. Listen to Magni: Azeroth cries out for help and people are grinning, using this war as an excuse to mine it. Enough!

As for the Forsaken that still have their will to their own. I’ve fought your kind for years and I find it hard to trust any undead. But if you truly can live a life of peace and harmony then you have a responsibility: Take arms against your Witch-Queen, that weak excuse of a Warchief and finish this.

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85

I main Retribution, whacha need?

Nice post, but don’t compare Sylvanas to the awesome villains that are Malekith and the Witch King of Angmar.

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86

Not gonna lie, both my Draenei Vindicator and Dark Iron main Retribution…its -sooo- Good…

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87

Yea, not really though.

Alliance lost 2 whole zones(Teldrassil and Darkshore) while the Horde only lost Undercity and Brill.

Also lets not forget that Goblins got Bilgewater Harbor and the Worgen got nothing…

Or the Darkspear Trolls got the Echo Isles and the Gnomes got a few random tents…

Or the Void Elves got 2 tents in a zone while the Highmountain Tauren got a whole zone…

But yes, we Alliance demand to much in return :thinking:

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88

Not our fault that your rulers prefer to put half the effort on their constructions :frowning:

I mean you still have yet to complete your encroachment forts in Kalimdor!

89

War isn’t a case of trading damage, of everyone doing the same to everyone else, that isn’t how it works. Reducing it to a level of ‘They killed X Many people, so we must kill X many people’ is frankly obscene, as if there is a quota you have to fill.

That is exactly how a war of attrition works. WW1 was fought on these terms pretty much and it IS damn aweful. However it is a tactic that will be used if all others are off the table.

Attrition warfare is a military strategy consisting of belligerent attempts to win a war by wearing down the enemy to the point of collapse through continuous losses in personnel and material.

90

I… don’t think that’s what Brigante meant.

Perhaps he meant the added purposeful of meta knowledge of it. I mean, can you imagine certain heads during those wars sending correspondence to each other during wartime?

“Hey, dude, so… in this battle, you killed X amount of people. Only fair I kill the same amount in return, yeah?”

Response:
“Sure, man. XoXo”

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91

Then its a silly analogy and nothing to do with what the OP posted. If hes claiming that war isn’t an eye for and eye hes also dead wrong.

London Blitz - Germans bombed London for 8 months.
Dresden Bombing - Allies dropped the same amount of bombs dropped by the Germans on London over the 8 month’s in one night.

Its partly to do with morale, its part venegence and its part status quo.

Status Quo is the most important one. Again WW2 example - Nobody used Gas that is a fact, however if one side had deployed Gas both sides had it and would have used it in response.
Another example is Hilter ordered that Paratroopers be executed on sight and not be taken prisoner. In response unofficially the allies did the same thing.

92

Yeah. That’s exactly what I meant. You fight a War to win a War, its not about who kills more…
That’s not War is, and trust me, I speak as someone who was in the Armed Forces, it is -not- about sheer numbers, that has never been a factor in War in terms of ultimate victory. I was trained to fly a Tornado, that has a Pilot (me) and a Navigator , Or ‘Back seat Driver’ as we called them, We were trained to shoot down Soviet Bombers entering UK airspace, they could have had a crew of up to eleven. I could have done that (Thankfully I never had to) by pressing one button. Does that mean that in recompense they should be able to kill eleven people in recompense?

Yes, Yes it is, and that is why every modern military text explains why a War of Attrition is absolutely ridiculous and counter productive. World War I was fought using Napoleonic ideals without realising that the technology of War had vastly changed. Do you know the major game changer in War at that time? Trains. The Rail Network. Suddenly troops could be transported in hours to a place it would have taken weeks, or months to reach. What was the Game Changer in WWII? Blitzkrieg and Tanks, Nowadays do you know what pilots call Blitzkrieg tactics? “A Target Rich Environment”. War Changes, that’s the bizarre thing, as much as the meme goes, “War, War never changes” It does, it constantly changes, as technology does. It is a constantly evolving game of ‘Scissors, Paper Stone’ as to what trumps everything else.

Attrition Warfare is a -massively- ineffective way to fight a War, and ultimately, will only breed a Secondary War later, when the resentment bubbles high. WWI and WWII being the perfect example.

93

es, Yes it is, and that is why every modern military text explains why a War of Attrition is absolutely ridiculous and counter productive. World War I was fought using Napoleonic ideals without realising that the technology of War had vastly changed. Do you know the major game changer in War at that time? Trains. The Rail Network. Suddenly troops could be transported in hours to a place it would have taken weeks, or months to reach. What was the Game Changer in WWII? Blitzkrieg and Tanks, Nowadays do you know what pilots call Blitzkrieg tactics? “A Target Rich Environment”. War Changes, that’s the bizarre thing, as much as the meme goes, “War, War never changes” It does, it constantly changes, as technology does. It is a constantly evolving game of ‘Scissors, Paper Stone’ as to what trumps everything else.

No, you can’t compare anything we have fought recently (last 50 years) to WW2 That’s like comparing a bar fight to a medieval battle. Honestly a war on that scale now…its difficult to even imagine.

Attrition Warfare is a -massively- ineffective way to fight a War, and ultimately, will only breed a Secondary War later, when the resentment bubbles high. WWI and WWII being the perfect example.

It has and always will be the end result of two evenly matched sides fighting.

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94

I thought that they actually call it ‘a one-way trip (for aircraft)’ because SAMs and army AA units will tear up your air force in a direct assault? At least between near-peer competitors that can force a war of attrition (Eg: Red Army).

95

Depends on the technology levels involved, Flares and Chaff have gotten a lot more sophisticated, to the extent that like the Tank, they are becoming less and less of a ‘world beater’ in terms of SAMs, It is the same as any form of Warfare, new tech beats old tech, and everyone has to catch up, bear in mind I was training in the 90’s, we have vastly different aircraft and capabilities now, and half those old SAMs we had to worry about wouldn’t even be able to -see- the new generation of Fighter Aircraft.

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96

One wonders whether the question of “they do five of us, so we do five of them” will even be relevant in years to come. Drones etc. Wouldn’t surprise me if we somehow manage to make it so that one person could fly 5 aircraft with just their eyes or something from some small room in a underground bunker.

Course then we get skynet.

Then every questions irrelevant.

ominous music

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97

If I can just add to this as well, Tyrande doesn’t so much grieve for Teldrassil and Darnassus as such - not by the looks of things.
She grieves for the losses of life that took place, such as the Priestess, Astarii Starseeker.

I don’t ever believe that Tyrande was happy with Teldrassil’s creation, but it provided a refuge for her people and that’s what she mourns for. Not the actual tree itself.

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98

The problem as I see it is that , whilst Teldrassil was a victory for the Horde in game and a loss for the Alliance, the opposite is true out of game.

In game the Horde conquer Alliance lands and kill a swathe of their population. However, out of game Alliance players are given the drive, unification and justification they need to fight. But Horde players get the opposite. We’re demoralised, divided and vilified. We have no reason to be part of this war other than to be antagonists to the heroic Alliance.

So, for Teldrassil to be ‘repaid’ more than it already has been, the Horde player must also be made to suffer even more for the crimes of the authors. I honestly don’t see anyway to resolve the issue. Had BFA since WoT been better for the Horde players, had it given us the Faction Pride we’d been promised rather than dumping on us over and over again, perhaps further punishment would have been easier to stomach.

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99

I’m not sure my perspective is totally compatible with most peoples.
Lordaeron was one of the most difficult to siege locations in the world, perhaps the most. It stopped a united Horde dead in Warcraft 2, they were not when they stomped out stormwind in Warcraft 1. It was also lead by Ogrim Doomhammer a contender for perhaps the greatest warrior in warcraft lore. Yet even using pretty dirty tactics, the alliance still took it. Okay, it’s blighted, but the alliance won the battle and there’s nothing to say their casualities were significantly higher than the horde’s.

The horde on the other hand had to unite to rush out just one faction within the alliance and they did take heavier losses then the night elves did. They then set fire to a tree.

There’s no question that the Alliance came out of the opening act looking far, far better than the Horde did. Now this thread and a hundred like it are still asking for the scales to be balanced? In order for the scales to be balanced the alliance would have to lose decisively in a location that strongly favored them.

As for the argument of civilians died etc, it seems you have forgotten the night elves trade cessation that resulted in orcs starving in the streets of Orgrimmar because of a rogue forsaken faction’s actions in northrend. Civilians died. If you think Teldrassil repaid maybe some alliance citizens need to starve to death first.

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100

Crap. The starving started after the Cataclysm wrecked the world, not after the Wrathgate. Thrall himself comments on this.

Further more, the entire “Lordaeron-one of the best strategic locations in the world” is once again, sheer headcanon.

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