IIRC, they stopped trading because of a false flag attack staged by the Twilight’s hammer which killed both orc and night elves in talks (which may or may not have been retconned). And not trading with a hostile nation is a rather flimsy excuse for justifying starvation.
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The Shattering, page 75-76.
Everything you disagree with seems to be headcannon to you. If you can name other locations a united Horde amped up on demon blood were repelled from in such a concentrated effort then by all means do share.
Ok, I might as well drop near enough everything here as we are not getting anywhere and we are arguing over something which shouldn’t be happening in the first place.
We are just slapping each other, all I want to do now is going over this bit.
True, there are certain Alliance players who will argue over the fact they are not winning enough, I am not here to discuss them but the concept in-general.
Winning isn’t everything, and losing doesn’t cost you everything.
It is about the story itself, it is about the journey to how you either lost or won for many people including myself would like. People playing the Sith in SWTOR know that they will lose eventually and at how their Empire will collapse and the Sith will all die, if people think winning is everything then how come so many people play that side in the Star Wars MMO?
There shouldn’t be eye for an eye mentality as one side who inflicts damage to another should also be inflicted just as hard for the sake of fairness, I don’t really know why I am arguing compensation for X to begin with. But the story should proceed as naturally as possible and at worst be the least artificial way.
If you touch every Human settlement for example, sure to some people this will feel bias or unfair (etc…) and so other people will dislike it because it is their favourite race and have a greater feeling towards it. But as long as it is done in a way that isn’t flawed from the very foundation nor feels artificially forced for the sake of it then it is fine. And from that, I expect the Humans of said example to want revenge on what has happened and act out of what should happen in the most natural way.
Ultimately the writers wanted their cake and eat it. They wanted a faction war but didn’t want to put in the effort of making it happen in a normal sense which is why it feels so forced beyond belief. Why most actions from characters and races feel so jagged and artificial, why there are so many inconsistencies and plot holes everywhere you look and lastly why we are in a position now that the outcome of this will have a lot of hate.
Your suggestions from your post here :
They sound interesting and so cases fun to watch happen. But you need to necessary work to put in to make these happen and not just happen for the sake of it, for the sake of wanting something different.
It sucks to be Horde, ye we know. It also sucks to be Alliance. The story is falling apart is so many locations and I am just giving the way how to at least get the story back on track. That involves the Alliance beating the Horde because of what is currently being displayed and why the Alliance would put harsh terms on the Horde if they lose the war.
This isn’t just from my opinion, it isn’t like I am saying to paint the world in blue as god-king-emperor-supreme-commander Anduin Wyrnn sits atop his Throne of Skulls as he bathes in the blood of Horde virgins to continue his immortality because that would be stupid and bad writing. But as it stands story-wise if the Horde were to lose then they would and should be punished by the Alliance.
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Everything I can not find sources for is headcanon for me. You know. Logic. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand.
And sure, I can. Stranglethorn, Stormwind, Ironforge.
edit: I also do not know why you linked those random pages. I checked them, not one of them is proving your statements.
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And yet despite such logic i’m not seeing an example. Shocking.
I just edited, you may go check. Further more, the Horde forces attacking the Capital City were not “united” . That’s why they lost that battle.
Honestly, once you said Stormwind you lost enough credit that I really don’t care. Stormwind got sacked big time. Stranglethorn repelled raidaing parties and Ironforge siege was lifted only because the orcs already got the resources they wanted in the first place.
But carry on without me, I’ll leave you to your own headcannon.
Oh, boy, I am so gonna love tearing this apart.
Stormwind pushed the entire Orcish Horde back and only fell when the king got assassinated. You may pick the version of ownage you want, there are several.
According to some Lothar pushes Orcs through the Dark portal, even.
Now, lets go to your other errors.
Ironforge endured the siege of the entire orcish Horde, and no, they retreated because they couldn’t take it and the cost was growing too high.
Stranglethorn repelled the entire Bleeding Hollow, not raiding parties, it was an entire army. And once again, the orcs pulled out because of the rising casualties.
Anything else you need corrected? I got time. I mean, for someone who wants to debate lore, you sure as hell fail it every step of the way.
Not to mention that you fail common sense. Like, your argumentation for Stormwind being a bad fortress is that it was taken. According to your own logic, Lordaeron capital city is also a bad fortress, because it was taken. ![:rofl:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
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Which chapter are you referring to from the Shattering? Pages 75-76 are chapter 27, which was dealing with Baine, Jaina and Anduin. I may have a different version
The only thing regarding Undercity I could find that it had quakes and Kro’kon were patrolling the city
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Stormwind. Terrible fortress. Terrible. It’s not a fortress. It was captured. I like fortresses that aren’t captured.
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Not really doing much to overturn that impression of Human Paladin posters there…
Well, no, there is one. Stormwind fell, the refugee’s fled to Lordaeron.
I mean that is the canon version, That is what happened.
Ironforge did, Khaz Modan did not. Interesting that Blizzard didn’t touch upon what a subterranean city with no infrastructure from the surface would have to do to survive siege conditions of that nature, but hey, PEGI 12 game…I mean I don’t need to spell it out, I’m sure…
That’s Trolls vs Orcs. That’s nothing to do with the Alliance. The Alliance did not, and still does not, have a sizeable presence in Stranglethorn, unless you think a couple of comedy pirates held off an entire Orcish Clan.
Was Stormwind originally designed as a Fortress? The Original Stormwind? I mean nobody knew the Orcish invasion was coming, so why would it have been? It makes no sense for it to have been a Fortress, to have a Fortress -within- it, yes, but to be a Fortress city, against who, the Gnolls? the Kobolds? The Murlocs?. Actually the Gnolls would have been a credible threat, had not Stormwind just comprehensively smashed their tribal structure into pieces and reduced them to a Hunter-Gatherer society unable to effectively wage War.
Lordaeron Capital city is an -AWFUL- fortress, it is supremely bad, and of a design method that even people in our medieval history would have looked at, laughed and remarked “Amateurs”. Where is its redoubts? Where are its fallback positions? Bear in mind that ‘Undercity’ was not part of the original city design, but cleansed later. What barriers are there to a foe who sunders the main gate? What air defences? What Siege weaponry. It was -AWFUL- Lets be honest, Lordaeron was ‘Generic Human City Number 1’ with no thought behind it, and had to fall to make the baddies look bad.
Want me to list books where that happens, there’s a fair few famous ones, But that’s all it is. Generic Human Fantasy city that falls to give reason for vengeance later… It’s a common trope. (This may be why I hate the Lordaeron story, its been done to, aheh, Death)
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I don’t care, if someone’s rude to me several times, I will reply in kind. Not my first clash with said person, and patience is not something I have in abundance, at least not for those who I do not find deserving of it.
I also have a particularly heavy dislike for people who discard sources and twist them as they see fit just because they don’t like a certain conclusion.
I mean, if my “don’t punish players for writer decisions, and make a compromise solution” is stereotypical human paladin posting, I am proud to be a human paladin.
It is also canon that the Horde suffered heavy losses.
I said Ironforge, not Khaz Modan.
I was challenged to name locations which repelled the Orcish Horde. It has nothing to do with the faction question.
Yeah, that’s what I am trying to contest, so we are in agreement.
But blowing the Alliance’s success at Lordaeron out of proportions by inventing it was some sort of massive fortress (I mean, it was as derelict as they come, with an easily infiltrated sewer system) is simply not true, and I will dispute such a conclusion.
I also distinctly remember first Stormwind being a formidable fortress.
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Sun Tzu disagrees
“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.”
That’s where this conversation is going to hit a stand still.
In my experience military personal almost always have a certain “realism” perspective on these matters.
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Lets be fair, we all know who I mean, and people jokingly refer to them, even when their words at times veer dangerously close to RL Racism…
No, that’s not typical Human Paladin Posting…You’re actually one of the few who avoids it, which is a good thing, Typical Human Paladin Posting reads like the lovechild of a Donald Trump Speech and Britain First, or…basically, Arctur.
Uhh, Yep?
How long is that city going to hold out with no source of food…Yeah, they had the siege end before it went there, because having it go a bit Leningrad would have been grim as hell…
Still therefore irrelevant. Its not an Alliance ‘repayment’ for Teldrassil
Sun Tzu can say what he thinks, he would still be annihilated by a single armoured battalion… As I said, War -DOES- Change, Sun Tzu’s lessons on War no longer apply, as they do not consider elements that were not possible at his time…
Only to a degree, I mean I command a unit of people who ride draconic reptiles that breathe fire, there is not an excessive amount of realism I can apply to that…
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I would love to see the look on his face if he saw war today. Bombers, tanks, the whole lot.
We have unicorns to the north, lions to the south, dragons to the west and Greggs to the east. This is no real world, mate.
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Nothing really, i liked Teldrassil, and no amount of destroyed horde settlements with broken stone doodads or fiery skybox would bring it back. And i do not play Horde that often so i would rarely get to see it anyway.
Edit: It would not make losing Teldrassil feel any better, but i dont know, the lightforged Glassing Mulgore i guess.
Honestly i would be all for the Night elves returning to wc3-ish living where their main home is Ashenvale, maybe like blizz did with Arathi they could release an ashenvale bg where its like this insanely dense forest, looking more like the one the nelf druid runs through during the vanilla cinematic.
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I didn’t care a rat a** about torched place and plagued one or irradiated only Stormwind matters the rest is expendable: I would ok kill the banshee the troll and all possible undead Forsaken anyway just when Varian died, the insult and sarcasm on Anduin was just a bonus : You insulted him a lil bit and tryed to take advantage of his inexperience and pain wannabe allies and open ennemies you are all gonna die some getting your long awaited kharma some beaten to oblivion or to a bloody pulp just for that.
We’re setting all family matters.
Oh and keep barking Greymane ,you’ve been a tricky yet disposable servant but your utility come to end and you won’t be the One getting revenge on that banshee.
The Horde had only few troops, because it was planned as a trap from the beginningas far as i remember.
The Nightelves are 10000year old fighters, have ancient magic (whispwall) and some of the most powerful characters in Azeroth, and a clear home turf advantage.
The numbers favored the Horde, everything else favored the Alliance.
The Thing with Lordaeron is: The Battle was lost for the Alliance. Sylvanas had won until Jaina ex Machina appeared with her flying ship firing Arcane-cannons out of nowhere.
The Alliance lost the Battle, Jaina won it.
I dislike the Story we got, because what was clearly intended as payback for Teldrassil, didn’t feel like it for the majority of Alliance players.
And thus the Horde has to suffer more, to satisfy the Alliance, because Blizzard can’t write Faction Wars…
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I am impressed a horde admits this.