You’re kind of right, the last -reliable- figures were 52% Horde, 48% Alliance, since then all other figures are just people making it up.
Part of the reason people think Alliance is dead is because Streamers tell them to think that. The other reason is people getting their pants in a twist by stupid Hall of Fame things that ultimately don’t matter in the slightest.
If I’m playing a game, I’m playing it for my enjoyment, I’m not playing it because someone I have never met played the game and got a really good score. Who cares how soon some min-maxer’s killed N’zoth, what matters is when -you- kill N’zoth.
It’s basically false information and hype over nothing.
There is a slight imbalance, but as I say, the last reliable figures had it at a 4% difference.
Factor in that we have current lore for many races because of how they placed them in the factions.
if they had done a different set up, the lore would be different. Remember for some races, like blood elves, Pandaren, Nightborne, Draenei, Worgen - the reason for their recent lore pertaining to factions was to place them there… htey had non-lore rleated reasons for being included
Blood elves - horde needed a human liek race that was very attrative to draw numbers
Worgen - alliance needed a more monstery looking race to mix them up.
Pandaren - Pander to china and furry lovers and so had to be in both
etc
That’s the original horde, they have the trivbal, chaotic feel to them, they look similar in a monstery way too - they looklike a horde
Not at all, there is no reason why Nightborne, highborne types won’t be in the same faction and world as the other nighet elves - it’s part of that world, for peopel to hate, that world has naga and satyr, so kaldorei preists/druids no longer need ot hate or exclude highborne/nightobnre tyeps, and there is no need to offer rivalry in an opposite faction.
Nightborne going horde was sto cater to horde fans, do you not htink it eird a night elf sub race crosses the factions? naturallly it wouldn’t happen if there was a night elf faction, we already see highborne with the night elves. Think, if it was so awkward for the Nightborne to be witht he nighte lves, why are the highborne already there?
I’m not being biased here at all, quite the opposite actually it’s those who feel that the nightorne belong in the horde with the blodoe lvesthat are being biased and not seieng the obvious. Saying that no race really has to be in any place, even humans could be in the horde, but ify ou going according to racial lines and so why a nocturnal race of night elvesl ike the nightborne would nnot be in the same faction as other night leves, whehter highborne, druids, Moon priestesses etc and choose instead to be with Thlaassians in a nouveau elven culture, diurnal, sun based etc…
HTis is only happening becuase of blizzard’ dtwo faction system and wanting to give the horde really pretty stuff.
Again, this is the progression from WC3 TFT - Illidan was not a villain till WoW TBC
Wow changed the direction, when you wittle down groups designed to be thier own faction and have them instead join the earlier two faction…
It goes back to being black and white, but also you start changing the whole dynamic of what they mean just to fit your two option box.
IF it wasn’t fot the two factoin system, and the need to make famous heroes raid bosses.
There would never have been villain Illidan, the Illidari would be a faction that had a verys pecific goals, with methods none of the factions agreed wit, but they wouldnt’ have been villains either.
Therewould be no KAel’thas betrayal of Llidan, no Broken betrayal of illian, no Sha’tari army coming aginst them, in fact what would liekly have happened have been the Sha’tari working with the Illidari against hte Legion in outland,
things went the way they did because the game couldn’t be flexible to have more than 2 factions. If there was no wow, and instead a WC4 or an rpg single player game, guess what, it would be totlaly different and have carried on from the TFT direction.
Nope, you didn’t get it. Zombie is the actual forsaken you play. Or did you not notice it’s a zombie/ghoul - tha’ts intelliegnet instead of mindless.
The idea here is that instead of races, you have different states of undead. Zombie is the one you play as a forskaen currently in game, but vampire and Lich are 2 other states, these would have customisable models all of their own with unique features. Kvaldir is an actual race. Granted they’re a bit big, but they could invent a 4th state for undead instead or make an undead version of the kul’tiran models, i thought alternatives could be Azjol Nerubians - to be realy different…
I view the forsaken as intelligent , self willled zombies… they’re decaying, they’re not whole like vampires not skeletons like Liches, they’re ghouls.
Or we keep the Nightborne and Blood Elves on the Horde, as they are a perfect duo in spellweaving and fighting.
Seriously, if they actually made my Nightborne play with Night Elves, in some puny little faction, I’d actually swap my characters over to Blood Elves.
No, there is no need for that with other factions. You don’t get it, the only reason races like night elves, blood elves, draenei, forsaken etc are on alliance/horde is because the game restricts itself to 2 factions, so in a scenario where there are more factions, this won’t exist.
night elves would NOT be in the alliance, and nightborne would be with them, not in the horde and not with the blood elves. blood elves would not be in the horde, they would be with the Illidari, or their own faction - following on from Wc3, TFT
You can have your own imaginary system too, where you are quite welcome to put nightborne in with trolls and orcs and blood elves pandas, , gnomes, etc in however way you like
the scenario I outlined was in agreement to Punyelf’s statement, and was an imaginary alternative progression where races weren’t restricted to the 2 faction format that wow introduced.
A word of caution to you Leia, you’re not in control of anything here, nor can you determine it, I would advise you not to invest too emotionally in where races are and what they do, it can change at any moment, at the whim of the developers, in a way you don’t like and you would have no measure of control no matter how diligently you stalk the forums and oppose any post you don’t agree with. If you want to determine things so badly go work for blizzard.
But a word of warning, this is fantasy, it’s not going to last forever, wow will eventually end, and all of this would change, whether in the next instalment, game or just cease to exist.
I have chosen to not get so caught up in it, enjoy it for what it is, go with the flow, when I don’t like the flow, I say but always bear in mind it can change in ways you don’t expect some you’d like and some you definitely wouldn’t, it’s their product.
I don’t know, some of those -do- make sense though, The Blood Elves had plenty of reason as far as WC3 to dislike the Alliance, the Pandaren had no reason to hate either, so it makes sense that some would end up in either camp. Draenei were benevolent Eredar, who had been sabotaged by the Blood Elves, why would they join the faction the Blood Elves are making overtures to, the Worgen is even simpler, the Alliance helped them, and prior to the Curse, they were a human nation, an estranged and self isolated one surely, but still human, again, better the devil you know, and rejoin the Alliance, rather than go Horde.
All of those three have lore reasons why they would choose their allegiances.
But that’s not what the Horde is, they don’t band together because they look monstrous, for a start, its races wouldn’t see -themselves- as monstrous, would they? They’d see themselves as looking normal.
It wasn’t though. No one was asking for Nightborne on Horde side, and its playerbase was as surprised as anyone else when that was announced, so it wasn’t really ‘catering’ to Horde fans, as they weren’t asking for them.
Because they have far more in common with the Sin’dorei than they do with the Kaldorei, that is the unfortunate truth of it.
But that is the defining feature that means Forsaken are not zombies, even the culture that gave us Zombies en masse showed their Zombies as not intelligent, not even sentient and sapient. If I had to pick a type of Undead they were similar to it would be Draugr from Norse myth, but even then there are differences. Zombies also decay and ultimately skeletonise, really, to survive a Zombie Apocalypse you just have to outlast them, whereas Forsaken are frozen in decay, they don’t rot further, so they are not really classical Zombies, nor do they look anything like Ghouls. They are there own kind of Undead really, more like Revenants than anything else.
And how would you justify that to those that play them? more importantly, what new race would you give to the Horde to balance out that you were taking one away from them?
And no matter what, Blood Elves deserve to have a race they relate to. They are the Nightborne fit like a glove.
But also - these factions within factions within factions - this isn’t to make Alliance more popular, this is so you can get your precious night elf/nightborne together. Sod the other races and especially the Blood Elves, who actually do need a race they relate with on a close level.
The Forsaken don’t understand magical addiction and the Void Elves can destroy the Sunwell.
The Nightborne and Blood Elves are two races that work and bounce off each other so well. Much better than any night elf/nightborne futile alliance, where Tyrande would do nothing but insult Thalyssra and her people. Thank heavens Thalyssra dodged that bullet.
Context, it was engineered to be more so when the decision was taken to take the blood elves horde.
It would just have been acceptable if the blood elves held Garithos accountable or the alliance disowned his actions publicly and entreated and helped the blood elves - a direction you would write if you were taking the blood elves alliance.
However the most likely position would be the Illidari they were working with in TFT or a Thalassian faction.
The point is you write the story to fit the direction you want to take.
Again, that is a story written because you are playing them in opposing factions that need each other to hate, remember Draenei as benevolent eredar did not exist before the retcon that made the playable to give the alliance a suitable race now that high elves were going horde.
Point is again, you would write a different story if you were going to put them in a different faction or have their own, not the other way round.
you are taking the story that was written to place them there and using that to say they can’t do anything else. . This is a creative product, you can do whatever you like, you just make up a good story for it. If the Draenei were going to the night elves or their own faction or the Illidari, you would write a different story. Things would not have gone the way they went in TBC.
None of which are relevant. to those of us back in Wc3, clasisc days, had a ton of reasons for blood elves to be alliance, despite the events of TBC, and blizzard were able to write a story to put them in the horde.
You can have lore reasons for the blood elves to join the night elves, and you can create many more to do anything you want with them, having lore reasons isn’t relevant when you can make new reasons, retcon old ones or twist/subver them.
That’s because to stick to 2faction system, yet have non-horde races like Forsaken, and later blood elves they decided they’d rather change what the horde was than change the faction duality.
That’s a design decision, it could have gone a different way. The game is built on 2 faction system, and they want to keep it that way. They could have gone with the 4-5 faction that Wc3 TFT set up, that was both better and more organic as that game gave distinct definitions and characteristics to all the groups.
But system wide, it was easier to work with 2 factions in the way they decided to implement restrictions. so with faction exclusivity for example, you are dividing the player base, having it 5 ways is too much for that level of exclusivity, but 2 is manageable, otherwise you’d have to allow cross faction grouping, guilding and player communications which waters down the sense of being in a different faction from an operations point of view.
Look, these are all design choices made, and you have to understand they aren’t the only ways things could go. If you decide to do it a different way, what happens is that thel ore and story that justifies the current positions your systems team chose, would be reflected, and all the lore of x race joining the faction would be different to match the alternative set up.
PEople were, both on this forum, but especially on reddit, and well, senior devs who all play horde, liked the idea of such a cool piece of art being on their faction, so it went that way, - big deal for night elf lovers, but not so much in the grander scheme of things - truth is any race can go anywhere, and the people who decide that is the developers, no matter how much fans love it or want it for their race/fction because of the fantasies the very previous lore set up by the deves had set them up for (which is why they feel it a betrayal), still it’s out of our hands.
This is why you don’t get too invested in this, mark my words, it can happen again, for something you like.
THat’s a biased perspective, i have many times made arguments for the opposite, I won’t bother to dot hat now, becuase that’s not the topic, but if you don’t know night elves and the lore he nightborne come from, you may not see it or be aware of it, and only see the similarities that you identify with whiles completely ignoring the others.
And similarities have nothing to do with it, Nightnorne are night elven, that automatically puts them with the Highborne and other night elves on the alliance, none of that commonality, whether the 10k year age or Suarmar the city both groups come from, or the fact they’re star loving, moon adoring night folk , purple skinned and silver eyed, same arcane based race …etc etc… i could go on, none of that stopped them from joining the horde and the blood elves.
Why couldn’t commonality between kaldorei and Quel’dorei (both Shen’dralar and high elves) be highlighted instead?. Sure there are similarities with blood elves, Highmountain have similarities with Orcs and night elves, yet they went with Tauren.
Because it doesn’t matter… you’d be blind to think that blood elves had more in common with the horde than they did the alliance when they joined the horde in the story, yet commonality didn’t matter one bit.
Nothing matters, you write the story for what you want to achieve with it. This is how it has gone for this game because it isn’t lore driven primarily. Lore is a factor, but not an ironclad one, cos it’s a game, not a book or TV series. And they care more about what’s in game than expanding the franchise to be a serious work of fiction that can be televised.
I may not like it or agree with it, being a great story lover, but it’s their choice, and they have a right to make it cos it’s their product they’re in charge, not me, and certainly not Leia.
Fair enough, I’m just calling them zombies, I’m using the word wrongly, which is why i said intelligent zombies (which defeats the point i know - zombie doesn’t have intelligence - Ghoul would be a better word.
But the whole point about what I wrote was that the undead faction rather than have “races” has different states of undead which have different models. Whether you call the forsaken technically Ghouls or zombies or a unique name, that’s just one state, another state would be Vampire, and another Lich and for the 4th option they could have a 4th state, but in my version i opted for another undead race that could be made playable.
I also highlighted other ways they could do it, by making undead of every race instead… I was just putting out ideas
That’s not the point of what I was talking about, in a different faction system, they’d be relating to the ones their in the faction with, Illidari - or A Thalassian faction of it’s own, or an elven faction where all the elves were in one faction.
You don’t have to repeat your dogma, the reality in-game is that Nightborne are with the blood elves, be happy with that status quo, you don’t have to challenge everybody elses scenario to confirm to the one you want, it’s un-necessary, the one you like is the one that is actually in game.
You don’t need to convince people that they should alter their imaginary situations to stick to that format when it comes to blood elves and nightborne - it shows you have an issue , or did you fail to notice that nightborne were not the only race re-arranged? - and yet you 're only fixating on that one.
You know, stop assuming everything is about that, it’s annoying, you are being corrected and pointed out you are ignoring everything else, and yet you’re doggedly fixed on that like you feel you have to stop anyone forom challenging your view or the status quo that you like, you’re taking this way way out of context , you are making it such in your head and ignoring everything else, I’m not going to respond to you on this, if you want to believe that go on ahead.
You were not the one the scenario was intended for anyway.
What I was talking about was not the horde as it is now, but an alternative situation, what is wrong with you? Are you just incapable of seeing beyond this? If you’re going to respond to a particular point, take into consideration what the point you’re responding is about.
And don’t waste others time on your agenda. Go fight your crusade to keep the nightborne in the horde on topics and posts that directly relate to that. But as I have told you, why are you fighting a battle you have already one. You’re just infuriating others and putting them off.
Except not really.
He basically sums up my thoughts on the matter.
I’m sick to death of the lies that get spun, where people can only claim that Horde players wanted Nightborne and somehow demanded Blizzard give the race to the Horde. No we didn’t.
Blizzard wrote 7.3 already in mind, with Liadrin and Silgryn. Horde players had no interference in that department.
I think Blizzard want along the lines of “Alliance will get Turylon and Alleria, it’s only fitting that the Horde get something as well.” Which is completely fine…Horde was given a preemptive to getting the Nightborne allegiance on the Horde.
I agree on you on that one. Well yeah there is no real secret that most horde races look cooler apart from blood elves that is. Lets face it if we compare horde an alliance most races on the alliance look like regular humans of diffrent sizes. Human, Kul tiran human. gnome, Dwarf, Dark iron dwarf all of those are basically just human with diffrent height and sizes so basically just humans only some with dwarfism/gigantism traits and then only dranei, lighforge dranei, mechangnome, night elf and voidelf that really look like their own races that branches of and not just being seen as a human variation in my opinion.
Not that its something wrong with those races but i doubt the alliance would complain with a bit more “creative” race for ones
