No both does not belong in horde. Nightborne does belong yes but blood elves do not as the lore have already proven
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Arh, of course.
The tauren, the known Alliance sympathisers on the Horde, comes to agree with Alliance.
I mean, everyone is aware that the tauren are the most Alliance-loving race in the Horde right now, right?
You never repeated the lore to begin with so there is your problem all you do is talk garbage that isnt accurate to lore
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No it would not save it it would destroy it
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Yes he have and its you the lore disagrees with
No he didnt he just mentioned 1 horde race and thats Nighborne
Swap both Tauren races for Ogres and San’layn. Then the Horde would be amazing.
Also - just ignore Kim. His main is probably a Human Paladin and he’s salty he plays the “Humans and friends” faction - the faction that is a total disaster because “Humans and the rest.”
Lets be fair, you have written things that were not true before, so it is only reasonable to expect you to provide some evidence as to the truth behind your claim that lore-wise the Blood Elves do not belong in the Horde, otherwise your words are unsubstantiated and false.
No you haven’t. None of us have. Even they aren’t claiming that they have proven anything, but are venturing forwards an idea. An idea I think is incredibly bad and harmful to the Alliance, but an idea. They haven’t claimed to ‘prove’ anything. Where are you getting this from?
I really have not. Blizzard also happen to agree with me, as they are the ones who write the lore.
How? How does that equation work in your head? I’m genuinely curious now, what sliding scale is there, where Nightborne do belong, but Blood Elves do not? How are you working this out? We know you are afraid of providing any lore evidence (Because there is none) but how does this -precise- equation work out in your head? Why do Nightborne belong, but Blood Elves do not? Please, Enlighten us.
As it seems, are some of their players…Damned Traitors to the Horde…
Well no, I didn’t. That’s the thing. You can’t “Repeat something to Begin with” can you? That isn’t possible. You can say something to Begin with. Then if you say it again, you are indeed -Repeating- yourself. You can’t repeat something you haven’t said yet!
I -have- however stated the Lore, and then repeated it many times after that.
Come on, you’re posting on a Tauren, you’re practically Alliance anyway!
Citation needed.
Explain yourself. Explain why this is so, in your head.
Gotta love that Human Male Paladin posting style
If andu and the Grey Wolf dies and you get proper alliance Leaders. Remove also jaina and let tyrande be a crazy women. Wanna see malfurion more
I don’t…
It’s not rocket science to understand exactly why the alliance was popular. You just need to play warcraft 1-3 and pay attention tot he warcraft community at the release of wow.
It’s not hard to figure out that image/popularity was the horde’s problem, and realise that has turned around too.
What do you expect, the horde has the alliance in it, masqueraging as the horde. Yet game developers wanting to maintain the original spirit of warcraft, but allowing high elves and night elves to exist on the horde in a very high elven and night elven civilziation way which are very alliance… mixed iin with theh orde.
It’s all over the place… They’ve attracted alliance players which was the point of giving hte blood elves tot he horde, to even the population, but wanted to keept he heart of the horde the original horde.
it’s unrealisitc, you can’t have the high elves and hte night elves on the horde in that very high elven and night elven civilziation way and expect any different. It’s tooa lliance, it confuses the horde, and people expect alliance type behaviour and characteristics because tha’ts what the blodo elves and Nightborne represent and show, but that has never been horde, so you keep getting confused and mixed messages.
This is one of the reason why the high elven stuff in the blood leves returning tot he allinace and the night elven stuf fin the Nightborne going back to the alliance would do everyone good. The remaining blood elves and Nightborne should then be developed into something else. And the gap left by losing the alliance assets should be replaced first with more orc/troll/goblin assets, and then later whatever new development direction they take the remnant blood elf and nightborne group . Wherever they go with them, it should have nothing to do with the high elves, night elves and what those people are about, the blood elves’ new stuff and the Nightborne shouldn’t look like nor be in the character of the high elf kingdom or the kaldorei empire/civilization. It should be something new, entirely itself or entirely unique.
I think you are confused about this.
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The point is to make the alliance popular again and remove it’s elements on the horde. win win.
There is far too much alliance on the horde. The blood elves and nightborne as they are have the best portions of the high elves and the night elves, and it’s far too prominent, and far too alliance based. It’s bad for the alliance as it draws those who like that sort of thing to the horde chipping away at the alliance population and it’s bad for the horde because it dilutes it, homogenises the factions and throws focus away from the horde core.
You are definitely not that, it’s one thing if you enjoyed the alliance being on the horde in addition to the normal horde races, but you have actively sneered at looked down at, considered boring, and considered un-interesting every development of non-alliance horde races, and suggestions for their improvement, especially at the cost of the alliance elven elements on the horde.
So it’s definitely not you.
Also it’s not a matter of “brutality” at all, if blizzard want to continue to characterise the horde as brutal, they can, they are free to introduce unique elements to the horde too, however, continuing to maintain alliance elements on the horde and very good alliance elements, alliance elements that are even better than what the alliance has, is not good for the alliance, nor is it for the horde.
As said many times before, if they want to develop elven stuff on the horde, it should be different from the high elf and night elven civilization stuff currently there, and should move away from it, otherwise they should make it inconspicuous, fade it to the background and remove the glamour and glitz - if they want to improve the current situation that is whilst maintaining the original “core” of Warcraft.
But let’s not pretend that keeping the very alliance based blood elves and Nightborne on the horde in that very high elf and night elven civilization way is Warcraft “core” - because it isn’t. And it’s the source of all their difficulty with faction themes and the alliance low numbers.
I’m making my assessment by your responses. You may have all the characters you want, I have rolled other races I’m not really interested in, just to try something different. In some cases they can be more like a pet, while it says something, your words and reaction say more. They show where your heart is and what you look down at. Even if you play them.
Then I hope you would at least stop this fake “blood elves aren’t an alliance themed race” you’ve been pointless trying to defend.
Silvermoon was not razed, and the high elves (calling themselves blood elves but still very much high elves in all but name) repaired it.
You’re not fooling anyone, blizzard kept the blood elves quite high elven, because they wanted an alliance themed race playable on the horde.
They could have changed them - in fact in WC3 TFT, when Kael’thas goes off with Illidan, was an opportunity, but in TBC, well, they made only his loyalists continue to change while bringing the blood elves right back to the original high elven identity.
your blood elves are very much high elven in all but name and allegiance - we all know this, you and others used this argument in the high elf thread as a point against playable high elves -but ofc those posters failed to recognise (and still do) why the alliance players still ask for them, and make more noise for them and the night elves than they do every other alliance race aside from humans.
Why do you think they don’t ask for orcs, trolls, goblins, tauren, pandaren etc? Even Vulpera, once they were given, have almost zero requests for them. Because Vulpera are not an alliance themed race, nor are they part of the fabric the alliance is built on or the fantasy of the alliance that blizzard sold to it’s fans in the foundation of warcraft, the core it professes to want to keep.
Yet continues to allow the blood elves to flourish on the horde in what seems very hypocritical, and has the audacity to be confused as to why the alliance isn’t popular. But ofc, with people like you flooding the forums with your warped views and denial that aren’t based on seeing sense, but entirely on maintaining your status quo rather than seeing the truth, it’s no wonder.
you know it won’t hurt you to admit this is correct and still not favour the return of the high elves or the night elven civilization. The fact you are trying to deny the legitimacy of what you know to be true, is what makes you sound ridiculous.
At least be honest.
There you go again, missing the entire point. The point is things like the light, city civilziations, arcane magic, law and order, elven sense of justice etc, are all the things that are core to the alliance not the horde. The alliance is created on such things, and ofc that way of life, including humanity was in full operation long before an alliance formed.
So just because such things were preesent in titans and vrykul doesn’t make them any less alliance.
You just being stubborn. You full well know blizzard designed all of this. They based the alliance on what they attributed to elves and humans, they created and wrote the kaldorei civilizaiton and empire, the high elves that form a version of it, the humans that develop, and the dwarves - the denizens of Azeroth in that particular mindset - they chose that, they based the alliance on that.
They never once thought the blood elves were horde, so don’t you start, they full well knew they were taking an alliance race to the horde and keeping it in that alliance form/frame - it was not a mistake, but intentional, because they wanted alliance members to switch to the horde.
Trying to deny the blood elves being an alliance themed race is a waste of time, the point here now is that this high elven civilziation will serve the game better reutrning to the alliance, so to would the night elven one, because it would bmake the alliance far more appealing, increasing its numbers and it would make the horde’s theme more uniform and more distinct allowing it to continue to stand on its own as the horde, without needing a cool alliance culture on it.
The relief would be that blood elves will still be playable on the horde, because blizzard won’t change that, but they don’t need to be like the high elves they’ve been portrayed as so far, nor do they need the high elf lands or kingdom in Quel’thalas nor the city to continue to be playable. They don’t need to be important on the horde, and this is what you know is true and what you fear.
Your fear is unfounded. I understand it because you are use to blood elves on the horde and like it that way, but it would be better for the high elves and the civilization of the high elves and that of the night elves to return to the alliance. Yo u won’t be losing them from the game, it would be much better for the alliance and it would be better for the horde too. You know this, and I know it.
Sorry to break it to you (well I’m not, because I know you realise it) but you are playing an alliance themed race every time you pick the blood elves and every time you pick up the Nightborne - the first is high elven the second is Night elven. Them or Alterac humans joining the horde doesn’t stop tha, whether they’re officially signed up to the horde for 1 month or 14 years.
Why not, when the horde loses Silvermoon, and Suramar, loses the high elf kingdom and night elven civilization they should gain more interesting and amazing horde race assets. Why not something interesting and majestic from the Orcs and the trolls, and the goblins.
Only someone who doesn’t care for these races thinks it’s a bad trade.
You must have failed to notice the many horde toons I’ve posted under. You seemed to be quite keen to link my toons to this character, gloating even as if you’d uncovered some secret I wasn’t trying to hide.
And all of a sudden you now claim if I even play horde. Well I play a lot of horde, and suggest improvements for them all the time.
Unlike you though I’m not entirely partisan based, I follow the themes of races, I haven’t been ashamed to admit that I felt the night elves should never have joined the alliance and been their own faction, same with the Forsaken
I have made my views quite clear, but that doesn’t stop the fact that we have two factions whether I agree with it or not, and from the basis of two factions, with the current situation we have with the alliance losing out so much, and the horde totally confused, the problem is having the alliance themed elven civilizations on the horde. Bring them back to the alliance and blizzard would fix this problem.
Anyone who looks at it.
But sneer and scoff at improvements and developments for them. What do you think that tells me about you?
Try to be consistent… in one conversation they’re high elves, in another they’re not alliance based.
Looks like I’m going to have to repeat myself. Oh wait, I don’t have to, because you’re just trolling at this point. You know full well what I mean.
Amazing, that pointing out the lore for what it is, is rephrased as me re-writing the lore to suit my ideas. I assure you I have no such powers, the problem here is your obviously bad denial of what’s infront of you, because you don’t want to admit it, as that would mean you accepting their is legitimacy and need for the horde to lose the high elven and night elven elements that blood elves and nightborne are based on and have those return ot the alliance.
You don’t want that, because you’re afraid, and can’t see beyond that, the move might end up being the best thing for blood elves and Nightborne, as well as teh alliance and horde. What they develop them into could be great to the extent you won’t feel the loss of the high elves or night elven civilization you like so much. and if that loss is unbearable, all you need to do is reroll alliance, they’d be there, and the alliance population would appreciate the growing numbers your addition gives.
I don’t think I need to answer more, we’re just repeating ourselves.
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Simply factually incorrect.
But your suggestion would make the Alliance incredibly -unpopular- and again, because you are not listening, there are no Alliance elements in the Horde. It would be lose lose for everyone.
I don’t enjoy that, because there are no Alliance on the Horde Faction. Once you take off your Tolkien-vision glasses you will realise that…
Simply a lie. I considered -your- suggestions for the Horde to be boring and uninteresting, simply because they are. They don’t bring anything to the Horde, I don’t consider the other Horde races themselves to be dull and uninteresting. I rather like what Blizz have done with some of them, and enjoy playing them. Let me clarify, If they gave the Alliance say, Sethrak, and gave the Horde Amani, then apart from it making no lore sense, I would still find it dull. If they follow your suggestion, equally, I would still find it dull, as well as making no lore sense. You aren’t suggesting any improvements for me to sneer at, you’d have to have made suggestions for improvement for that. “Oh, we want all your Elven stuff and in return you can have something that makes no sense because I just don’t care about your faction…”
Fortunately, there are no Alliance elven elements on the Horde, so this is not an issue.
If you really want to play that game as to what is Warcraft Core, then post from your human or Orc characters, it is hard to take those words seriously when you post from a Night Elf Demon Hunter of all things! If you really want it to go back to it’s core, you shouldn’t be able to play your class, and you shouldn’t be able to play your race either!
Thankfully, Warcraft lore has advanced since simply ‘Orcs and Humans’ as other races have become playable, so stop using this ‘core’ argument, unless you are seriously advocating the removal of every race apart from Human and Orc. It doesn’t make sense.
I don’t think you are. you have consistently refused to acknowledge when other people are explaining things to you, and evaded inconvenient questions that blow your argument out of the water. Your claims at telepathy grow all the more bizarre, the more inaccurate they are. You have no idea what I think about the other Horde races. You just know what I think about your suggestions.
They are not an Alliance themed race. It is that simple. They are an Elven themed race, who are in the Horde. They were members of the Alliance of Lordaeron for 1 year, 1 war. They have been members of the Horde for over 14 years. Their theme is Elven, their faction is Horde, and Blizzard agree with me.
How can you claim to want all the Horde Elven stuff if you don’t know the lore behind it?
As a functioning city it was razed, Arthas leaving behind only collapsed ruins and swarms of Undead. The Farstriders were lucky to actually be able to hold onto the actual remains, and the real estate where once the proud city had stood. -Then- the Magisters returned, and ‘almost overnight’ (as the quote goes) with magic the eastern half of the city was reclaimed and magically rebuilt. Those Magisters were Elves of Quel’thalas, who called themselves Blood Elves. The ‘High Elves’ as opposed to the Species of Thalassian Elves were nowhere to be found, hiding in Dalaran or Alliance cities.
Face it, Silvermoon was reconstructed by those Thalassian Elves who call themselves Blood Elves and are Horde.
It is not an Alliance city. They lost any claim to it when they didn’t come to aid in the defence of it.
The Reason I use the distinction in names is that of the Thalassian species, 90% now call themselves Blood Elves, 10% now call themselves High Elves. The Thalassian elves who rebuilt Silvermoon, were -entirely- Blood Elves.
Right. Now I know for -certain- that you don’t listen to anyone’s opinions but your own. Against High Elves was I? Was I really? I’m sorry, rather than just squawking “Give us High Elves! High Elves 2020! Silver Covenant! Silver Covenant!” Which poster was it again who posited strong NPC leaders for Alliance High Elves as a playable race? Was it the same person who suggested a starting zone and scenario for Alliance playable High Elves, as well as to how to time it in a way that the Gilnean starting zone skips time a bit? What about the person who came up with ideas for their mounts, or heritage armour, or the one who actually took the time to cook up some ideas for what Racials they could have to reflect the different path they had taken from the majority of their race? I’m sorry, Trying to remember that poster’s name? begins with a ‘B’ WItty chap, posts from a Blood Elf avatar usually, totally agrees that Playable Alliance High Elves would be cool for those that want them, even if he wouldn’t play them himself. Trying to remember the name now…I’m sure it will come to me as soon as I hit ‘Reply’
Because It will appear next to my post.
Seriously, is -that- what you took from that thread?
Read what people are actually writing, do not simply -assume- you know what side they are on.
Actually, in fairness, whilst they are not an Alliance themed race, and have some pretty hefty reasons to utterly -hate- the Alliance, You’d be surprised. I have seen a lot of people posting from Alliance avatars complaining that they can’t get Vulpera, that the Vulpera weren’t implemented like Pandaren so that they could pick a faction. So you’re kinda wrong there. Lot of folks on Alliance do indeed want Vulpera.
I mean it would make no sense, you’d never join a faction of people who tried to sabotage your way of life when survival was difficult enough as it is and invade your land just recently, would you?
Awkward
(Yes that is an analogy for both Vulpera and Horde Elves, before you try to get cute about it, The Elves were on the winning side in the Second War. Easier for them to forgive the Horde as a vanquished foe, than their supposed mates who repeatedly kicked them whilst they were already down more recently)
Because there aren’t any examples that would make sense. If there was an Orc Clan or Troll Tribe that made sense, then maybe the Alliance fans -would- be asking for those.
Actually here, whilst it would never happen, there is at least some lore sense that could be made of it. I mean the Grimtotem Tauren -did- work as Mercenaries for the Alliance during Cata, and they’re not exactly the most popular tribe right now in Tauren society. As for Goblins, most of them were neutrals, there could be a lore argument made there, I mean after all, the Second Highest ranking member of SI:7 (So someone massively privy to Alliance spying info) is called Renzik the Shiv, and is rather famously a Goblin.
Its unlikely they’d make playable Tauren and Goblins on Alliance side, but the precedent has been there in game…
Probably the main reason Alliance players aren’t asking for Pandaren, is that they already have Pandaren…
OK, Insults, Classy. Very definitely likely to sway me over…
I’m stating Lore, you’re stating the Opinion of no one but yourself.
Blizzard agrees with the viewpoint of one of us. And it is not you.
It would. I’d miss this game. But if they wanted to butcher their game that badly that I can play one faction that they have knowingly taken assets from, and another faction where to log on would feel shameful and a bit humiliating as it is the ‘Pity’ Faction then, I think that would actually hurt me. Not in a deepseated spiritual sense of hurt, just “Oh well, was fun whilst you had the stones to not be a Tolkien Rip Off, I’ll find a better game to spend money on, preferably one where they don’t pander to the wishes of a faction of people determined to cling on a dead man’s coat tails…”
I’d probably just unsub, and then look at what games with integrity are out there, or at least with interesting, non-generic ideas…
The thing is, we know that will not become a necessity, because Blizzard will not do what you are asking for, and you know it too, in your heart of hearts…
No I…don’t think -I- am the one missing the point here…
Right, of the things you listed.
The Light: Not Invented by the Alliance. Like massively famously not. Nor Exclusive to them, as we quite patently get shown.
City Civilisations: Definitely not an Alliance only ethic, I’m pretty sure, that Mac’Aree existed before the Alliance. Also Zin’Ashari, Suramar, Silvermoon, Zul’Aman, Zul’Farrak, Zul’Drak, Dazar’Alor. I’m pretty sure these not only existed before the Alliance, but before Humans as a Species. So no, you are wrong. City Civilisations are not an Alliance theme, as none of the people who built those Cities were in the Alliance at the time, and most of them never have been.
Arcane Magic: Really-Really- Famously not an Alliance principle. Like Massively famously. Like…read the lore about the Sundering and tell me the Alliance involvement in that, famously.
Law and Order?: Ridiculous. Any society with cohesion has law and order. It is not an Alliance only tenet. It might be an ugly justice system, but every society smaller than a few familial groups needs a method of governing behaviour and punishing malefactors. It is not something the Alliance alone stands for.
I -think- that was rather more invented by the Elves, and nothing to do with the Alliance? In fact the Elven sense of Justice varies wildly from the Alliance sense of justice. The Alliance will Execute the worst of offenders, and will Imprison others.
Elves tend to prefer a system of Exile. We see no examples of the Alliance using the Elven system or sense of justice at all.
Oddly, do you know who we -do- see using the Elven sense of justice and Exile?
The Horde.
It -should- be a waste of time, because I shouldn’t be wasting my time trying to explain the lore to you.
Can’t return something to somewhere it never belonged to…
Good job Alliance already have the Night Elves then. I’d have thought you know that, given that you are posting from one? Horde have Nightborne, but as the Cutscene shows, they are something different.
Good good, you have High Elf NPC’s on Alliance, and Night Elves on Alliance, all good now, yes?
Nope, It would be an absolute travesty for both.
Thankfully it simply will not happen.
I say thankfully. As I do not want to feel ashamed when I log on my Team Blue Characters.
That I have read your suggestions and find them incredibly lacklustre and wanting, in exchange for what you want to beg, borrow and steal from the Horde?
You should have just been more honest at the start. “I want all the Elven stuff on Alliance”
I could have at least respected such honesty.
I doubt many Alliance players would be incredibly happy with you however…
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No i have not written thing that are not true and i already have given you evidence several times as you already know so are wrong as you keep ignoring to read the facts people provide you.
yes i have
Yes you have been. And no blizaard dont agree with you they agree with me because unlike you i stick to the lore while you just write garbage you cant back up.
I have answered that in several replies already as you already know and can see if you read the answers i give you and no im not afraid as i have already given it to you you are just to dumb to read when i answer you and yes there is evidence like you have already been give countless times.
No you havent as you never been able to back up you false claims as they dont agree with the lore
No im not unlike you blood elves that been stabbing the horde in the back several times
its not in my head its in lore
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Well, I mean factually speaking, you have. You have directly written something not true, as a result of which people retaliated by writing other things not true. I kept an exact count of the time you wrote things that were not true, and used them exactly that same amount of times back to you. Which you got annoyed about. Whilst ignoring the fact that you did it to someone else first.
You have never given evidence. That is another lie. So if you have this evidence, lets see it?
Lets see this evidence you claim I am ignorantly ignoring?
Go click on ‘Create Character’, click ‘Horde’ see what racial options you get given.
Whoops, looks like Blizzard do believe the same as I do!
Not even once, have you, and you refuse to answer that question. You’re afraid to answer, because you know you have no answer.
Nice move calling me dumb again by the way. Real adult approach there.
Thats fine. The Lore is on my side. You can log on and check in game.
Yeah, I’m a bit confused here. You use the word ‘Several’ in English to mean a multiple number, more than two, but less than ten. So again, as you were asked the first time you made this wild claim, can you give a single example of that even happening? I mean ideally I would like to see these ‘several’ examples, but I think we know there aren’t any. So lets go with just one for now, can you provide that example, or can we just rule out anything you say as groundless with no basis in truth?
You might want to log into the game, to see that you are entirely incorrect.
I mean come on, you tried to argue that you got your pick up quests for Shadowlands from someone other than Lor’themar Theron. Like you have your own unique version of Shadowlands. How are we supposed to take you seriously if you argue with what is in game?
C’mon. It’s time. Show us some proof of your claims.
Finally levelling your Birgante toon again? you’ve been 58 for a while.
The blood elves signing up to the horde is like the trolls deciding to ally with the alliance.
It’s pointless to try and argue this is not an alliance race signing up to the horde, just as it would be pointless to argue (in the hypothetical scenario of trolls joining the alliance) that they were not a horde race signing up to the alliance
Everyone knows and sees this. The alliance units are humans, elves and dwarves - horde are orcs, trolls and goblins - it doesn’t matter if more variations of elves, humans or orcs and trolls come later and they join other factions including the opposing ones to their kin, they are still themed on alliance if elven, human or dwarven, and themed on horde if orcish, troll or Tauren.
the funny thing is blizzard chose perhaps the most alliance centred race, the elves, and gave them the most extreme presentation of all the things the alliance is about - from sense of nobility, organisation, civilization, magic etc - they have all these qualities at the best of all the alliance races, and only one group did it better, the kaldorei civilization, and they took that horde.
They essentially took the best aspects of the alliance to the horde and keep funnelling it over there… this may satisfy some perverse pleasure of having a twist, but, what it does is it undermines the alliance, and will forever lure alliance minded players to the horde.
You may be fine with this and change the parameters of what it means to be horde or alliance - but it’s blizzard that keep talking about preserving the original core and heart of Warcraft in having two factions, the horde and alliance and them being based on the foundation the entire franchise is built on.
To this effect, blood elves and nightborne existing on the horde in that very high elven and night elven civilization capacity works against this goal, and undermines your alliance which is why the alliance isn’t popular… they’ve essentially given the coolest things or presentation of the alliance to the horde what does that honestly tell anyone? It tells anyone play horde, if you play horde you get everything the horde offers and the best of everything the alliance has to offer.
The solution isn’t to give the alliance horde stuff - because alliance don’t like orwant that, and don’t want the change. Now it seems that some amongst the horde like you, or rather basically the horde elf crowd, don’t want the horde to lose those alliance elements. But lets call it what it is shall we, and not try to pretend blood elves as they are aren’t alliance themed, aren’t high elven, and Nightborne aren’t kaldorei - you’d be an idiot or liar to think that , certainly after reading what I’ve pointed out (in case you didn’t observe it yourself) - basically you’ve no excuse now after reading what I’ve written.
WE can argue whether it’s a good thing for the horde to retain these alliance elements, either for the sake of the horde or the sake of the alliance, that is more subjective, but to sit down and try to argue that the blood elves aren’t alliance themed and they as well as the nightborne aren’t essentially the alliance on the horde (and the best presentation at that, of the alliance on the horde) is pointless.
You’re in denial about that my friend. You’re better off trying to focus on establishing or showing that these alliance elements on the horde are better off staying there or at least are okay to stay there.
But off course I have response for that, but I’m not arguing out of selfish or “I don’t like motives” you will find my assessment honest and unbiased, and not just disagreeing with you because I don’t like the idea of it… which is exactly why you are disagreeing.
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Night elf units also consist of Dark Trolls as well.
The Horde also don’t have Forsaken, Zandalari Trolls, Highmountain Tauren.
Blood Elf units, during the Blood Elf campaign only consist of Blood Elves, Naga and Broken Draenei
Also has a lot to do with Garithos in W3 and the Night Elves in WoW TBC.
It’s ironic that the Night Elves, for both Blood Elves and Nightborne, essentially pushed both to Sylvanas.
We all know the best and only aspects to the Alliance are the Humans and the only thing they lost is Lordaeron and Theramore.
You’ve still got Stormwind and regained Arathi.
Do you need reminding of what happens to Elves who meet Humans? Look at Tyrande and Varian in 5.1.
The Blood Elves were only alliance for 1 war, then went “your on your own, suckers!”
The Nightborne were never Alliance. They made their choices because of Tyrande “Mood-swing” Whisperwind.
Well he needn’t bother because the Horde doesn’t have anything that the “Humans and the rest” faction don’t have.
You’ve got your Elves with Hyjal and Telogrus Rift, Horde has got their’s with Silvermoon and Suramar.
Honestly, will your salt mine ever run out - you’ve been this salty for 3 years since Nightborne went Horde and nothing you predicted has come to pass. It’s time to give it up. You could just play the game as not care about the lore?
I think it is that armoury bug, I’ve been level 60 on him for ages now! Though the -really- weird bit is that I only made that fugly helmet he’s wearing in the portrait-yesterday- with my LW proff. So how come it hasn’t updated my level, but has updated a set of armour I only made yesterday…and then have transmogged to be hidden. I think I shall log out and log in, worked last time when it was showing me as level 50 but actually was level 55 at the time.
Ahah, logged out, logged in again, and at least it is showing my level now, even if it is still showing that hideous helm which I mogged to be hidden. Oh well, c’est la vie.
Apart from the fact that it really wouldn’t be the same at all, Trolls have -allied- with the Alliance in the past. Not actually joined it
It was a hitherto -Neutral- race joining the Horde. Not an Alliance one. They had not been Alliance since Quel’thalas seceded after the Second War
Apples and Oranges though. Blood Elves were Neutral, All the Troll races in game (with amusingly the original exception of the Zandalari) are either Horde members, or were Hostile to everyone. Which was not the case with the Blood Elves. The only people they really hated at that point (and still do) were the Amani. But thats cool, because the Amani hate -everyone- right back.
No they don’t. Don’t you see that? This is why people are citing lore at you, and in game events that show that this just isn’t the case. The Elves of Quel’thalas are based on the Elves of Quel’thalas, who are their own thing.
Come on, lets be real here, the most Alliance centred race is humans. I mean they were the O.G Alliance race, and still have (too much) limelight to this day. You can’t claim elves were ‘perhaps the most alliance centred race’
Ahh, so this -is- still you being bitter that Nightborne went Horde then? C’mon, how long has it been? You’re still mad about it?
Says who? Seriously, says who? Says you. Because you like Elves, and thats fine, everyone has a favourite, or favourites when it comes to playable races. Some people might think Dwarves are the coolest things on the Alliance, and they’d be equally as justified in that opinion as you are in yours that Elves are cooler. I don’t see Dwarves being given to the Horde? Some people, ever since Wolfheart was released really love Worgen, and think they are the coolest things on Alliance, and again, valid viewpoint. I don’t see Worgen going Horde any time soon.
Actually Worgen is a good example, as they even fit the narrative.
Gilneas were part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, during the Second War, just like Quel’thalas was. After that War, both nations left the Alliance, for the exact same reasons, they thought King Terenas was making a mistake, and they refused to be taxed for it. Both walled themselves away. One with bricks and mortar, one with Ban’dinoriel. Both were Neutral nations.
The Horde attack Gilneas, and rather shockingly as a result, they turn to the Alliance. The Alliance strike at Quel’thalas, and rather shockingly as a result, they turn to the Horde.
Quite a spooky parallel really…
But that is literally your proposition. You want to give the Alliance Horde stuff, that is what we are debating here, mainly because in your head, some Horde stuff isn’t Horde stuff, even though people playing Horde are like “Ermm, Yes it is Horde stuff thank you very much…”
As I patiently keep pointing out, there are no ‘Alliance’ elements to lose. So your idea kind of falls flat, because there simply are no Alliance elements on the Horde.
Never denied that. Blood Elves are 90% of the survivors of the Scourge invasion. All Blood Elves are High Elves, but not all High Elves are Blood Elves, ‘just’ 90% of them. Nightborne is trickier. You’d be on firmer ground if you say “Were Kaldorei” Because they do have physical differences, and in the cutscene when you first meet Thalyssra, she actually says that whilst looking down at her physical self “We…changed…” I doubt they would have made a point of her directly looking down at herself whilst saying that, if she just meant a political change. Plus, well, they are physically different.
So in one case you are insinuating that I don’t think Blood Elves are High Elves, despite me reminding people multiple times that High Elves and Blood Elves are exactly the same, bar the fact of politics, and Blood Elves learned how to use a BBQ essentially (As Mana draining is a learned technique, not an innate racial ability), so are the meat eaters to the High Elves Vegans. So I never disagreed with that point, in the slightest, and as I say, the evidence does seem to suggest that there -is- a difference between Kaldorei and Shal’dorei. Not a massive one, I’d say, but that there is one. certainly a bigger difference than between Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei, because thats …just a name change…
I think that is the crux as to why ultimately this will go nowhere. You believe that Horde Elves are in fact Alliance Elements, and I take the exact opposite opinion because of the lore events in game. I don’t think we will shift our positions on that matter.
No, I think you will find I am disagreeing with you, because I disagree with what you are saying… I mean that is how civilised debate works.
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And? Blizzarddceided Ngihte lves won’t be a faction, nor forsaken, nor the illidari - they went back to Alliance and Horde - cos this is the heart of warcraft - THEY SAID - not me.
And that heart of warcfat has the core of the alliance having humanity, the elves and dwarves and their cultures and civilziations - they have as imilarity and cohesion to them, that is built into the game.
So does the original horde that kept that consistency .
Seeing they went back tot hat, it’s fine for them to add new things like Night elves, Forsaken, Pandaren - but make no mistake about it, Blood elves are alliance themed as are Alteraac humans - even if they join the horde or if they join other factions like The Illidari, or Argent Dawn or any number of organisations.
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Ah… I was wondering why you were stuck in mid 50s, I wondered if you had changed mains.
Ah alas, I am tired of arguing with you on the other matter. I do think it would be better for the game if the high elves fully return to the alliance, and Suramar too, with or without the Nightborne. I also honestly believe it would be better for the blood elves and Nightborne to become something else.
I mean, I can still play high elves on the horde, that is why I didn’t change any of my void elves to the new high elf appearance, and haven’t given up on my blood elf toons, but I really feel it would be better that way, but if it stays as it is, it may be sub-optimal, but I can play all my fave elves. Even if I don’t really think highly of the reasons the blood elves and nightborne are siding with the horde.
I can argue for better reasons, or changing the horde to be a place that suits blood elves and Nightborne better, but ultimately, I think the best option of all of these, is to admit and accept that blood elves and Nightborne as they are currently don’t fit the horde and shouldn’t be there. That aspect of them is alliance and should return there, and they should develop them into something new.
Right now, I really feel like I’m playing high elves but on the horde and Night elven civilization type i.e. Highborne in a night elf sub race on the Nightborne - it’s all alliance it makes the factions feel less distinct - I can live with it, but it’s better on the alliance.
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After they renamed themselves, the only interaction the Elves had with the Alliance was with Garithos the racist.
You know…the main reason why the blood elves left the Alliance completely. After that, they stopped being “Alliance” and became their own thing. 5 years later, we see Silvermoon change with the Blood Elves - Fel crystals, magic draining, blood magic etc and that’s when Sylvanas offered assistance in the Ghostlands.
Blood elves and Silvermoon are staying Horde. Accept it and move on…also forget high elves…their isn’t a separate playable race called “high elves.” It’s Void Elves and Blood Elves.
Void Elves do their thing with the Alliance
Blood Elves do their thing with the Horde.
If you love being a servant to Humans,then carry on playing Alliance, nobody is stopping you . You’ve got night elves and void elves to fill your elf fantasy
Correction - this “Alliance” faction is just “Humans and the rest.”
This is your problem with the Alliance story. Over-emphasis of 1 race. Nightborne and Blood Elves won’t change that. This is why it’s better they are all on the faction where they get equal screen-time like the others.
All Alliance races are, at the moment are just: “Yes Humans, No Humans, 3 bags full, Humans.”