Yes, that is all true when content is difficult, like in retail mythic or when tbc was current.
But in classic, all this isnt nessesary due to low difficulty.
Noone needs any enchants, any food, any pots to kill any boss in currently released content.
Also, I never understood use of guild banks, I farm everything alone and those who use gb mats are just leechers on expence of those who actually contribute to gb.
So, my moto is never contribute to and never take from GB.
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I do have maxed out character in retail wow too (except of mythic gear, I don’t do mythic raiding much). This myth about neverending hamsterwheel starts to be annoying. I don’t need to do any world quests, farm any reps or login daily because Im not losing anything.
There is probably a lot of difference between hardcore guild and more casual raiding guild in this matter.
If you have farmed everything since the first month and everyone is already decked out and ready for BWL, there might not be much need to help out anymore.
In our own guild for example, we have only recently put MC on farm, managed the first rag kill before submerge this week, and still have people just joining the raid group for the first time. Even some people that are not even level 60. In a setting like that it is much appreciated if everybody helps out making sure enough people get geared up, and even still helping out getting pre-raid bis gear in the mean time.
Maybe its not a technical necessity because indeed content is not that hard anymore, but its not just about clearing the content asap, its also enjoying the game in every aspect. And a lot of people also actually enjoy doing a group effort and do not mind helping out “leechers” when they have materials to spare.
There’s noting wrong with either approach. But the question of OP is why some people do not like raid loggers, and I just gave an example why a lot of people do not like, but just as well, a lot of people do not mind either.
Game doesn’t dictate you anything. Your guild and another 39 people dictate you when to play if you want to raid. Its logical, you need to put 40 people together for like 3 hours, ofc you need to do compromises.
I have no problem about raid logging,my issue is when the ones doing it are the officers/guild master in the guild and the rest of the members need the officers orientation/support
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Yeah except that on retail you have these ridicilous grind with the neck and the artifact weapon prev expansion which you cannot complete at your own pace. With the exponential gains they implemented for artefact power and artefact knowledge you’re being pretty much told come back next week so you can properly gain rewards for all the work you’re putting in. Not to mention the titanforging system which pushes you to keep doing content for some ilvl upgrades. At least when you’re playing in the current patch, I’m not talking about the cathchup mechanics they add after the content becomes obsolete.
Classic is much cleaner in terms of gear and progression, you just do the dungeons the item drops that’s it. No neck, no artefact knowledge no posibility for extra stats.
And that’s just gear and power. The hamsterwheel is very real for all the cosmetics in the game. Blizzard keeps adding mounts, transmogs, pets and allied races with each patch usually that require some sort of grind. And a LOT more look forward towards those than gear or raids.
That’s not even necesarily a bad thing for people that enjoy constant collecting. What I’m saying is people should not be expecting this style of play with all these collectable things to farm or constant need to farm dungeons for a random chance of an upgrade to an item they might already have in Classic since it’s a different style of game that doesn’t incentivize you to always be grinding something, excluding the pvp honor system here.
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Grind cosmetics? Man, I cannot take you seriously really. You are forced to grind cosmetics? 
I don’t feel I need to grind m+ to get titanforges. I don’t feel I need to grind neck above lvl 65 because it doesn’t provide you any major buffs. Gear? Not having those titanforges doesn’t stop me nor others from doing any content including mythic raiding. So tell me how are you forced to grind anything?
Having bis gear? Exclude warforges and titanforges. You have you bis gear the moment you got your ideal items from mythic raiding with highest IL. Can you be lucky to get some WFs and TFs? Ye, but thats only an addition so people who push m+, who farm raids etc. have at least a chance to upgrade. You don’t have them? Nvm, you have do every content without them.
You know how it usually ends with “bis” gear? Look at Classic, people started to log once a week for raids because they have nothing to do.
Hope you got your bis using boosts you purchased with gold bought on Chinese websites.
Sometimes I don’t know why I even bother with you people.
I didn’t say you are forced to farm cosmetics. I’m saying that for a VAST portion of the population cosmetics are 90% of their gameplay and they are constantly drip fed new cosmetics to keep them playing which is not a thing in Classic.
Also good for you that you don’t care about your actual bis. All the crap they did to gear ‘isn’t just a bonus’. It’s giving people lesser version of their baseline gear to entice them with the possibility of a ‘bonus’. If you don’t care good for you, but there USED TO BE a group of people that actually cared what was on the gear they got statwise and not just if the arbitrary gear score number was higher. Those people have to farm like crazy, sometimes not just for a piece but for it to have a socket or titanforge high enough. I reminise about the days of the devilsaur shock baton or the arcano crystal. Just because you are happy with whatever high ilvl item you get doesn’t mean everyone is.
And there is 0 problem with the Classic model. I want to get my pre raid bis gear and then raid. I can pvp or farm gold/professions should I choose to. Or simply help other guildies get their pre raid bis. It’s simple, it’s effective it doesn’t make me want to logout the second I log in and open my map.
And really you’re talking about level 65 on the neck in this patch? Man I’m talking about launch when you had to grind it to 40 JUST SO YOU COULD WEAR THE AZERITE ARMOR YOU GOT IN RAIDS. You’re telling me you just slapped those pieces on without any traits on it just because you didn’t realise you actually had to grind azerite to be any good in a raid? Sure dude whatever.
Oh no, the developer is giving people options. Whatever will we do?
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Raid logging isn’t exactly a bad thing, but it’s not a good sign either.
People raid logging are usually in a de-motivated stage, which usually means that they’re about ready to quit the game for a while. Aspecially when you consider that currently, raid night is once a week.
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Better than others? You are not your character!
Having better gear doesn’t make you better.
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I care about my bis statwise. Who told you I don’t? What I don’t care is if that item with my bis stats (which is not random) is 430 which is rn HC raid/mythic 10 quality or is TFd or WFd.
Stats are not random, you still know what items drop in what dungeon/raid and what you need to farm in order to obtain it. It is the same as in Classic.
TF and WF just adds another layer above your “bis” gear in order to give those who play 1 character to obtain even better gear.
Ofc I can push mythics or farm raids even with my bis gear just for fun. But even the slight chance of upgrade in a form of WF/TF gives me a good feeling.
Maybe not as person or player. But a bad player in best gear can be more useful to raid output than a good player in bad gear. Game is pretty basic based on stats or same skill rotations, not much you can do wrong or better than others in current raid content unless your a total moron.
Having better gear upgrades your output no matter if your a good or bad player. (be it dps or healing or whatever your role is), thats a simple fact.
I obviously meant “performing better than others in-game”, which among other things includes having the best gear.
Yes, but you don’t do a lot of dps or healing if you died to one of the simple mechanics in the Classic boss fights.
Good for you. It doesn’t for me. I like to know I’m getting that version of the item and not hunt for one with a socket.
Jesus freaking christ. Can you people read more than three words without extrapolating your own meaning from a sentence. I’m not saying that’s a BAD THING. What I AM saying is that it creates a different style of gameplay which is collectables centric. And Blizzard KNOWS it. They know a sizeable portion of the population cares more about the animations of the Vulpera than the new corruption system.
And that is TOTALLY FINE for people who love collecting. I used to be one of those people but with an overabundance of cosmetic rewards I just didn’t care anymore. What I was saying is with the constant demand and addition of cosmetics in the game is that people come at a game, including classic but you can see this in many current games, EXPECTING constant things to farm and to achieve.
Raid logging means a person doesn’t find other things in game interesting to do… simple… not that Classic offers anything relevant to do when end game can be cleared in greens at not max level. Which kinda also devalues the idea of BiS… unless u need the BiS gear so you show your imaginary e-peen in IF/ORG in front of AH…
What I love are clueless Classic shrills spewing myths about retail all over the place: “free epics” and how you need all your gear TF and about endless hamster wheels and how you need to grind neck and even do WQs everyday…
Free epics suck, they are just for ppl who can’t get decent gear in raids/m+ so they can slowly acquire somewhat decent gear, which still sucks in the eyes of those who can get proper gear. Sucks big time… useless… charity… noone cares. I am all for it that even a casual player who is not good enough or not interested to do “hard” content gets something… maybe even 1 or 2 pieces that are better than what a mythic raider will get in the tier… Its about the joy that this brings to that player. It doesn’t affect the gear/game balance in the slightest. It is not like that player will now suddenly be able to kill last boss mythic or time a m+20…
TF is rare and just an extra bonus for ppl that are reclearing raids, pushing keys… so they can get something once in a blue moon. What ppl tend to forget, especially the shrills, is that players in retail are not measured by gear anymore, but by skill… Gear is meaningless for 95% of player base as they don’t do content where gear matters (Cutting edge raiding, extremely high key pushing)… my gear is nearly maxed out (and yet i only have 1 TF item…), and I still am very bad at the game, which I realize. Some people with similar gear do 30% more dps in raids, than I do. I could time m+15s or kill mythic end boss with this gear… if I had the skill to do it. Which I do not… So no, I do not care about some BiS item… What I care about is increasing my skill level. And each tier I am a little bit better… who cares if all old gear becomes useless… they don’t take what I learned from me and I grow as a player.
And yet the gear in retail has meaning… people that go for world 1st or push the highest keys literally squeeze every last drop of power the gear has to offer… which can’t be really said for Classic where u can clear the raid in greens… and than show off your epics in front of IF/ORG AH… don’t see much other use for it truly. Unless someone wants to pull unbalanced PVP out their a…
And about neck… unless you are going for world 1st… there is no grind… you can grind if u choose to, but you do not need it.
And I cant remember when was the last time I did any WQs… after you fill your reps you can easy forget about WQs as the rewards are pretty bad overall.
Oh and btw, I have a level 60 Classic character… I took a “break” when I realized how brain dead the game is… My hunter used 1 button on 6 second cooldown… while basically not having to move very much at all… I honestly struggled to stay awake at times. On retail my hunter has 4 different ways (buttons) for just interrupting an enemy cast…
But hey, some of us prefer the easy version of wow… the baby version. Which would be retail… or something. Color me confused. LOL
I get it… a lot of you didn’t like it how the skill ceiling got higher and higher and suddenly some of you were not welcome in guilds/groups… I have seen some ppl use the term cata-benched for this phenomenon. The fable about the “Fox and the grapes” comes to mind… in a nutshell; when a hungry fox couldn’t reach the grapes as they were too high on the vines, it decided that they are sour anyway and it doesn’t want the grapes anyway…
Some food for thought: Lets say hypothetically Vanilla wow was perfect, alpha and omega, the best there is, the big kahuna… and all the other expansions ruined this utter perfection. And Blizzard did the “right” thing and never released an expansion. Do you think game would still be alive today… I mean “retail” wow… which would consequently still be Vanilla wow… would it still be alive today? Reality is (most) humans get bored of the same thing quite quickly. That’s why wow evolved or devolved… rly just a matter of perspective, but one thing is for sure; if it didn’t it’d be dead today.
I do realize there are people who played Vanilla for the past 15 years, but running a MMO for a maybe 15k player base its not a sound business plan… especially for a publicly traded company… On the other hand having a few million subscribers that pay 10$ every month does seem like a sound business plan… so at least from a business perspective they did alright… yeah I know… money badword and so on… its easy to blaber non sense when it’s not your money, tho… noone is preventing you to make the “perfect game” for 5k player base and lose YOUR money on it… and yet…
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