What's the big difference between Tanaan Jungle and Korthia?

Sorry, but your remarks are starting to make less and less sense.

You understand me perfectly. You don’t want it to make sense because you don’t want to earn your gear. I will counterargue your attempts to trivialise the whole game bar none, and I will never relent, so stop trying.
You’ll get Perdition Hold on steroids if you want Mythic level gear.

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I really don’t.

Not true. You just have an, imo, sick twisted view of what ‘earning’ means.

But that’s not AT ALL what I’m attempting.
I don’t care what happens in PvP because I don’t play it.
I don’t care what happens in raiding because I don’t play it (LFR being the one exception for story and content experiencing purposes).
I don’t care what happens in M+ because I don’t play it.

I only care about world content not being as good, awesome and extensive as it deserves to be. It deserves to be a 4th pillar. BUT, the progression in it should apply only to world content. Of course you shouldn’t be able to gear up from WQs and step into a mythic raid and own the place. That’d be ridiculous.

So I have no clue what your problem is.

Exactly. :+1:

Except you do need SOME power rewards, capping around the Normal to Heroic level, ideally with bonuses when in world content, to provide a sense of progression.

The sense of progression is essential. Otherwise we could all just go back to theTimeless Isle today to get the kind of thing you described.

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It was fun at the time as loads of people were all there doing stuff. Folk would yell out when a rare was up and dozens would run over and join in. It felt like a MMORPG as there were so many folk around.
Not sure what it’s like now as a solo rare farming experience as I’ve not really bothered with that.

Korthia is almost empty compared to Timeless Isle. I do see some folk around but no way near what I used to see around on TI.

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Why would Maw be hated? I enjoy chilling there, best zone on my list so far. If there’s anything I hate it’s Bastion with all those creepy angels and eye-burning light (yes I usually sit in darkness with bright monitor), and omg they even added arena zone from there.
And lore-wise Maw was never supposed to be some pink rainbow world with ponies.

Timeless Isle is like Marmite. You love it or hate it.

I hated it, it had no proper structure, no proper hub, no proper dailies.

Some day I’ll get that achie clocked off.

You’re talking about activities, content.

I’m talking about the zone.

Though the activities did keep me engaged for quite a while, as well. For your tastes, I imagine IoT was more the thing. Both brilliant designs, for different tastes.

Ah I see.

Yes I loved Isle of Thunder, I enjoyed the group effort of progressing through and unlocking it all. Having a hub and quests that took us all over the place :slight_smile:

if you are looking for a hub, you are in the wrong place. Timeless Isle was perfect for what it was supposed to be. it achieved everything it needed to achieve.

Disagree for all the reasons I gave, but like I said, it’s a love or hate thing for most.

I think what Ish is getting it is that all gear has a difficulty curve.
You don’t get the best m+ gear by running m0 100 times. You have to step up.
Same for raids.
Same for PvP (brackets)

Therefore if world is to be the (fourth pillar) and evolve beyond the current (Kinda entry level) it represents in the other pillars, it needs to have similar step up.

Not for the sake of cross contamination. This isn’t about gear from X content being used to skip Y, because you can just use ilevel scaling like PvP gear has.

No, this is about progression being felt, and being fun. And to me, killing trivial boars every day eventually resulting in me getting bigger gear isn’t fun. It’s a grind.

So if world is to join the others, which it damn well should, it needs to involve actually executing proper skill in solo world play. So mobs that have mechanics that require some thought and can’t just be aoed down and such.

It’s not about fairness, it’s about progression meaning something, and getting better gear for doing the same difficulty repeatedly isn’t meaning. That’s essentially rewarding you for nothing but subbing.

With such there is such potential! Like proper decent hard world quests with a nice reward where it’s something like track down an assassin last seen in X zone, you have to find clues, which lead you into bandit lair in y zone, which leads you eventually into showdown in this assassins hideout and the encounter itself isn’t the kind of thing you can just AA to death, you need to THINK and maybe use items/consumables correctly that the bandit lair clued you in on.

What would be wrong with that? That would be amazing. The main thing holding world content back from these rewards and progression is it simply isn’t challenging enough to warrant it. It’s trivial most of the time. It requires no thought beyond which mobs am I hunting.
It doesn’t have to be that way. M+ shows us you can absolutely have mobs deliver one shots and players learn to adapt or don’t get the rewards. Why should top end World content not be the same way?

See that guy reaching for his gun? He’s gonna one shot you due to that ammunition you learned about in this quest, you need to LOS him or stun him during the shot. This would be amazing. It would also help the immersion.
We’re told “the mawsworn are deadly” etc etc. Mate, I can stand there with like three of them in me, soak all their casts and still walk away with near full health. There is no immediacy in their threat.

But like with the above example, this quest leads you to believe this assassin is dangerous, and then you fight the dude and turns out yeah he is freaking dangerous and he’ll hand you your backside if you engage without thinking about it properly (ideally using the quest process to teach you about how to do this).

Like the goblin heritage armour quest. If you don’t use the items correctly in that quest, short of massively outgearing it, it is tough, and you will die. You need to listen to Grapplehammer early in the quest line when he tells you “using this prevents heat radiation” and remember it so when Gallywix is trying to burn you you don’t get killed super quickly.

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you have your hub in the vale.

You could fly in Tanaan.

I don’t necessarily believe more people equals more fun.
In fact; I could even go for the exact opposite. More people is more mobs being tagged and grey and taking ages to finish a quest and such.

Anyway; I still see plenty of people for rares in Korthia at the moment.

To a degree, sure. But I’m also advocating for seperation of progression.
So that the ‘really high gear’ rewarded in world content is not equal to ‘really high gear’ rewarded in PvP, M+ or raiding UNLESS you are in the open world.

And I happen to like grinds (if it feels rewarding). :relaxed:
But no; part of what I’d like to see is a diversification of world content. Not only WQs and dailies. But more stuff… Events, scenarios, phasing areas where you actually progress the zone itself and change it over time unlocking more and different content, repeatable story quests with multiple endings because of choice… There’s all sorts of things they could do/try.

For certain parts sure. Not as a general thing. The world does not need to be full of difficult mobs. Imo.

Nothing wrong with that if it takes considerably longer, imo.
Time is a valuable commodity in mmorpgs (and in people’s lives).

Yeah sounds cool. Just don’t make EVERYTHING like that. Because that would be tedious and irritating. Keep it limited and special feeling. I can see a questline like that and then ending in a mage tower like fight where you maybe get 3 attempts and if you fail them all; tough luck you’ll get a new shot next week.

One problem I do see with such a thing is websites such as wowhead and whatnot. They’re going to be posting guides and spoilers and spreadsheets. Websites like that really do take away from the whole spirit of an mmorpg. If Blizzard would be able to make more content akin to the secret hunting ‘changing maze’ we had for the Lucid Nightmare mount, that would be cool (even though people eventually made guides for it unfortunately).

You don’t seem to understand. Hub, not expansion Capital/Main City. The Vale is not the Timeless Isle. Some hubs are faction based and have one of each in an end game area. Examples:-

Isle of Quel’Danas - Sunwell Plateau
Isle of Thunder - Sunreavers at Dawnseeker Promontory
Tanaan Jungle - Vol’Mar
Nazjatar - Newhome
Korthia - Keeper’s Respite

These are all hubs where we get our dailies, they are properly structured. Timeless Isle lacked that structure. It had a few weekly quests but very little daily interaction content.

Korthia is basically soulless version of Mechagon and Timeless Isle.

Quite ironic since this expansion is supposed to be all about souls. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Not everything, no, but I’d argue more of the “higher gear” from world content would have to be behind “hard stuff” which can vary.

Like collecting a truck ton of rare mats? That qualifies for a piece.
Exalted with a rep? Sure
Doing quests like those mentioned? Amazing
Navigating a maze like mini dungeon solo? Why not!

All I’m saying is it would be wrong to have every piece locked behind something like (for example) Research, because there’s no challenge to it, it’s just infinitely looping of the same stuff every day, and unlike other contents, it has no challenge variation and to me that doesn’t sell a progression system that seems enticing. It’s just a grind for gear.

Players interested in world content deserve better than being told “here’s a zone where mobs drop a token per kill, collect 500 for gear, what more do want?”

Torghast (love it or hate it) scenarios and visions (same) has shown us blizzard can deliver solo content that is a bit more interesting and that’s what “world content” and progression should involve. Not tedious boring grinding of mobs I could beat up in my sleep whilst I right click stuff off the ground. Not everything has to be super intense but similarly not everything has to be so bloody trivial as well, you know? Make some of it patience rewarded, and other bits skill!

Because at current Korthia is a great example. There are people with codex rep far above mine. They haven’t done anything more challenging than me. They haven’t explored Korthia more than me. All they have done is logged in and spent more time in that zone, doing repetitive crap than me. They may have had more luck as well, but the main thing is they’ve been rewarded for staying in one zone for longer periods of time than me.

That is a diabolical way to do world content. World content that is rewarded by ignoring the world and the potential variety by doing humdrum crap in one zone for hours? What on earth is this?

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Yea , it was, and that was an amaizng zone, with an amazing raid, with some of the best world pvp in wow”s history.

Khortia is kind of a meme:)