Where Are the Strong Male Figures in the Latest Expansion?

[Shiniodk-burning-legion]

@Napfkuchen-madmortem

Magni, Kadghar, Thrall, Baelgrim?

Magni is sidekick to Moira and lost all his powers.
Khadgar did nothing, lost to Xal’atath and as far as we know he is dead right now.
Thrall is token horde character so we have at least one in whole story. Also he did only help us in one quest.
Baelgrim was great and they killed him after 30 min of story.

@Napfkuchen-madmortem

But still I cant get behind why people even care what gender these characters have.

Because i play RPG’s to immerse myself in story and inspire to be like characters on screen. I wan’t to look at roided up characters with muscles on their muscles doing heroic things. Instead I get crying babies that want to go to their mommies.

[Bigbazz-tarren-mill (Bigbazz)]

@Napfkuchen-madmortem

Whats with Magni, Kadghar, Thrall, Baelgrim? Also there are lots of “strong male” side characters in side quests

Magni - Sacrifices himself, relinquishing his greater role in the story.
Kadghar - Sacrifices himself by losing to a female, relinquishing his greater role (possibly also RIP).
Baelgrim - Sacrificies himself, relinquishing his greater role, to pass it on to a female. RIP.
Thrall - Doesn’t do anything other than exist in a few cutscenes, they diminished his character a decade ago and had him on the sidelines since.

“Lots of strong male characters” - You can’t even name them? Somebody else mentioned this being like a Taylor Swift concert, and that does seem about right.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

@Shiniodk-burning-legion

Because i play RPG’s to immerse myself in story and inspire to be like characters on screen. I wan’t to look at roided up characters with muscles on their muscles doing heroic things.

Guess Im lucky to have a different taste then.
Also you play your own character, why do you need so many other characters to identity as?

Magni was absolutely no sidekick imo.
But still there was no argument why the gender matters in this case.

I can relate to actions and traits a character has without even thinking what gender the character has. It makes no sense to say something is badly written because this and that action was performed by a male oder female character. There is no logical connection why people are so focused on the gender of fantasy characters while complaining that there is a focus on the gender by writers implementing diverse characters.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

I mean sacrifice their life for the greater… how much more cliché masculine heroism do you need until you are satisfied with masculine heros to look up to?

And no I cant name these characters from side missions. I am bad with names ive only read for a couple of quests. Doesnt change the narrative.

[Heramaar-argent-dawn]

@Dayul-grim-batol

Again look at the chart that you linked before. Remove all Classic SoD spikes, move the retail spikes next to each other it will show you exactly how it looks. I can show you but for some stupid reason I’m apparently not allowed to add a link to my messages

https ://imgur.com/a/kP82ZjN
remove the space, that is the same chart with the Classic and SoD spikes removes showing just retail, no adjusted scale on the move so the drops and peaks are accurate to the original. Again this isn’t for sub numbers it shows a declining interest.

That’s the most BS, logic-defying mock-up of a graph I have ever seen. Everything about it is wrong.

Again, the ENTIRE LINE is overall subs for World of Warcraft (all editions). If you cut out stuff like SoD you are ALSO cutting out Retail numbers.

You are literally sabotaging the own data you want to use.

If I would show my math teacher from school this butchery of a graph you linked, he would outright strangle me for the idiocy shown on it.

[Bigbazz-tarren-mill (Bigbazz)]

@Napfkuchen-madmortem

I mean sacrifice their life for the greater… how much more cliché masculine heroism do you need until you are satisfied with masculine heros to look up to?

And no I cant name these characters from side missions. I am bad with names ive only read for a couple of quests. Doesnt change the narrative.

They have sidelined all of the male characters through sacrifice in order to prop up the girls, every hero with strength, competence and responsibility has been a female. Baelgrin’s sacrifice was unnecessary and stupid, it was just a plot device to pass the torch.

Anduin has had no character progression and is still a weak, feeble man who is getting shown up by an unbreakably confident 1 eye, 1 arm, female Paladin. Sacrificing the actual strong male characters to remove them from the story so we can make way for the new replacements, all female, isn’t exactly supporting your case here.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

@Bigbazz-tarren-mill

They have sidelined all of the male characters

Again and again:
Why does the gender matters?
Cant you relate to the traits of a person if they look different beneath their clothes?

Its so irrelevant for the narrative…

[Dayul-grim-batol]

Stop thinking Subs, it’s not a chart for sub numbers, it’s player interest.

A Sub for classic is also a sub for retail as the sub is shared. What I’ve quickly demo’d there is a direct chart of the interest displayed for purely retail. The chart has been moved so the start up hype spike for the first announcement of Shadowlands before even pre patch, is placed onto the the end of BFA.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Dayul-grim-batol

No, it’s Character that acts like a whiney 5 year old is tedious to deal with.

This is such blatant nonsense.
Just stop making up stuff because you don’t like something.
It’s fine to not like a character. It’s not fine to make up nonsense to justify that opinion.

[Dayul-grim-batol]

Care to refute what I said with anything other than Nu uh?

[Fydron-argent-dawn]

@Shiniodk-burning-legion

Baelgrim was great and they killed him after 30 min of story.

This alone should be a criminal offence.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

He actually hit the nail with that.
You stomping on the ground complaining about childish behavior of npcs is actually the essence why this whole debate is so cringe.

[Dayul-grim-batol]

from you know the numerous examples I’ve given over this thread comparing the old characters to the new, talking about actual instances in the story were the character behave irrationally and the writing is poor. Oooo I see, you disagree with someone there for they are childish… Good talk, you do you.

[Heramaar-argent-dawn]

@Bigbazz-tarren-mill

Sacrificing the actual strong male characters to remove them from the story so we can make way for the new replacements, all female, isn’t exactly supporting your case here.

Ok, counterpoint.

Invert the situation in perspective.

Imagine women would have always been the strong ones and males the weak ones. And now the game becomes more equal, showing more men as strong and less females so.

Would you still complain? If you would still do, your complain is likely valid. If not, then that’s just (partially) misogynistic thinking in your subconsciousness.

And if later is the case, the issue with people is not writing, not the characters, but the very idea of change itself.

@Dayul-grim-batol

Stop thinking Subs, it’s not a chart for numbers, it’s player interest.

No, no. You just can’t go and say a chart with big, fat letters written over it, displaying “SUBSCRIBER NUMBERS” and say “this is a chart of ‘player interest’ now”.

Oh, wait. You can… If you are a fool.

@Dayul-grim-batol

A Sub for classic is also a sub for retail as the sub is shared.

That’s exactly why I said the graph line IS the summary of the sub count.

You want to tell me that SoD S4 was “a massive spike of interest because better character writing” but don’t think the same increase in player interest can’t be the case for Retail engagement.

When S4 of SoD came out, also S4 of DF came out, making gearing SUPER EASY!!!

“But no! It can’t be that that caused massive spikes in Retail engagement too! HERESY!” ~ Dayul (this is btw. my assumption of your inner thoughts)

Again, you are ignoring SO MANY FACTORS and try to claim “it’s just the writing”. You are literally the definition of being oblivious.

And I’m not going to argue further with someone being stuck and stubborn in that mindset.

Enjoy your day. I surely will not arguing with you.

[Napfkuchen-madmortem]

Im fine with debating if character writing is worse today than it was back than.
But the moment someone relates this about the gender, skin color or orientation it is full stomp-on-the-ground child territory.

If the gender makes or breaks the quality of a character narrative I cant take the analysis serious, sorry.

[Bigbazz-tarren-mill (Bigbazz)]

@Napfkuchen-madmortem

@Bigbazz-tarren-mill

They have sidelined all of the male characters

Again and again:
Why does the gender matters?
Cant you relate to the traits of a person if they look different beneath their clothes?

Its so irrelevant for the narrative…

It’s forced and unrealistic, and keeps repeating itself. Of course gender matters, men and women are very different and the exceptions are few and far between in history. In matters of war, hand to hand combat, men are biologically wired for it, larger, muscular, more aggressive.

The 1 eyed, 1 armed teenage girl with the personality of a happy, untroubled teenager but with the body of someone who has been tortured, who has unbreakable confidence and no fear under pressure. How likely is that? It’s really, really unlikely.

[Aveanne-burning-legion]

Ah yes, people want to have cultural wars in games because it’s not enough in real life. That’s why games that are now based on cultural justice are blooming and suffering from success. Oh wait, Concord, Dustborn, Suicide Squad and more, including series actually are giga flops despite being so equal and inclusive.

[Dayul-grim-batol]

If you have a company making 2 products, and for this company when someone pays for either one of the products it’s a sub for both. If you release a chart displaying your spikes in purchases, that coincides with releases for each product, you can take this same chart, and remove the starting spike for one of the product releases (which is clearly marked on the chart) and turn this graphic into a customer proportional interest for each product. It’s not about number of subs at this point it’s about showing the interest the customer base have in the product over each release.

@Heramaar-argent-dawn

You want to tell me that SoD S4 was “a massive spike of interest because better character writing” but don’t think the same increase in player interest can’t be the case for Retail engagement.

When S4 of SoD came out, also S4 of DF came out, making gearing SUPER EASY!!!

The chart stops before SOD release. It is merely tracking the peaks and falls of players during each expac, showing the proportional drop in interest in players for retail alone.

[Dayul-grim-batol]

At what point have I ever in this entire thread said the reason it’s bad writing is because they are female, or their race? Talk about strawman, you basically just tried to call me a racist because I think the writing is bad. Re read what I’ve put, numerous times. Every single time I’ve said the issue is bad writing for both the female and male characters. I do not want to see poorly written women any more than I want to see poorly written men.

[Aveanne-burning-legion]

I’m not even gonna mention that whole ‘World of Warcraft’ story now just sucks, pvp is pointless, allegiance has no point, faction wars are gone which makes this game main plot gone. Horde and Alliance are now holding hands singing while walking toward rising sun, why is PvP still a thing there? We are killing each other there.