Where Are the Strong Male Figures in the Latest Expansion?

WoW is a matriarchy now.
Gone are the Alexandros Morgraine - Gromash Hellscream - Garrosh Hellscream - High King Varian Wrynn.
The other races had their strong / competent masculine characters.
But it’s a Matriarchy now.

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Shame it’s not a very good one.

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You know it’s bad when an ecchi anime has more men in the central cast than wow. :rofl:

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Well, there’s two ways of looking at it:

In a general sense, compared to all the writings of the world, no; the quality isn’t high at all. But then again; WoW’s writing quality has literally never been high.

But if you compare it to WoW’s writing overal; I think TWW measures up pretty well.
I personally have enjoyed this story so far, more than those in the previous three expansions.

Yea, I started looking for “all” the corrupted characters while looking confused in the quest log to see that’s only one that needs to die.

“Good matriarchy” does not exist. Never have never will. Challenge anybody to prove me wrong
HOW it is done also is the difference between an audience willing to engage and those that disengage.

For example.
Gilneans wanted to return to Gilneas for so long. Genn led his people through thick and thin - from refugees to a stalwart army leading his people through wars. Now that (in a very bad way) Gilneans FINALLY get their home back.
He just retires??!!! Not rebuild the city - Not forge a strong people - Not create a new country to THEN pass on to the next generation. NOPE. WoW needs a new Queen. Lord Darius Crowley just sits there thinking about the people that was lost while everyone else is rebuilding the city.
He is getting the Baine Bloodhoof experience in the Sylvannas / Shadowlands expansion.

Blizzard has made no secret that they hire DEI officers. So it is clear the direction that WoW has taken. Trying very hard to Square this Circle despite market research with the likes of Concord and Dustborn that is heading down the same direction.
Hundreds of millions of dollars lost with no return on such an investment.

Understanding the market is one thing. Choosing to give the market what they want or with-hold what they want is another.
Cater to the ACTUAL audience - paying customer - content consumer. Not the ghosts of the “modern audience” look at Mecha Break.
Not only does Males and Females actually exist, Unlike DEI WoW.
But you character creation is detailed with sliders. Yes fan service does sell and always will.
Concord is so bad there is no R34 on it. (if you know you know). While the likes of Mecha Break are Highly anticipated literally nobody tuned in for the beta test of Concord.
“Games journalists” has lost all credibility. If not then they would have reported that Devs of the ‘First Descendant’ tweaked the game that in some of their content there is literally a 0% loot drop rate.

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Well, I honestly can’t think of one so you might be right. There was this one from the 13th Warrior, but they were villains and I don’t want to be called racist.

One thing I will disagree with is with Genn. Now, maybe I’m a little biased here cause I couldn’t stand Graymane from the day he was introduced to the point where he retired. To me that character should have eaten the arrow Sylvanas shot at him and let his kid take over.

But I felt like that story was acceptable, Tess is a competent girl. We’ve seen her across the game doing stuff and not just stuff, smart stuff. Actually one of the things Genn didn’t do and ended up losing his whole kingdom. He was caught with his pants down by the rioters, then by the Worgen and finally by the Forsaken. If he had bothered to do what his daughter is doing, I won’t say he could have prevented the loss of his kingdom, but mitigated it.

So yeah, since his son is gone, she’s the next best option given that she’s got the right name, which is a big deal in Gilneas, she also has some experience. I’m the first to admit that Blizzard DEI-ed the hell out of the story and hell, this might have been another DEI move, but one they got right, probably by mistake.

This is something you have to get used to in games from companies based in California.

Male characters these days are often portrayed as incompetent or straight up evil, girl bosses didn’t start with TWW, I said back in BFA the moment they announced Talanji that Rastakhan was going to be killed off in order for her to become queen and it played out exactly as I thought it would.

You don’t need to be a great prophet to predict how things happen in California it’s pretty obvious and you can see it from a mile away and it won’t end in TWW, mark my words, my next prediction is the Titan Pantheon will either be taught their toxic masculinity isn’t allowed or they’ll all be killed off except for Eonar who will turn against them.

It’s better to simply ignore this crap and focus on the things that matter to you, for me that’s M+ and I wash my hands of the story and expect nothing good to come from it.

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Genuine answer: Because it’s the default in a setting like this.

The trope is european medieval fantasy, knighthood and military themes. Deviations create a sense of lack of authenticity and therefore appear artificial. This sense of authenticity is created by our historical knowledge, culture, and previous experience with other fantasy media. The fact that there are such things as magic or fantasy creatures does not change this, as they are ultimately part of folklore and mythology as well.

You have some leeway, but not infinite. The more you deviate (especially with the ratio), the more you’ll be asked to justify it.

Controversial, isn’t it?
Don’t shoot the messenger.

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Thts why the first game started with Aliens from another planet invaded your world with demonic allies and undead (yes WC1 had Demons and skeletons) via Stargate…
Move along nothing to see here

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Why can’t we have strong women and also strong men? I think in terms of writing, Moira Thaurissan is the most respectable and genuine female character in the story

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So a black person disrupts that sense of authenticity, but goblins zapping people with laser death rays don’'t…?

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Cause the current devs didnt seem to have had such figures of influence in their lives.

What you’re referring to is the writers breaking the suspension of disbelief.

Take black panther the movie, if Wakanda, an African nation that has always been isolated from the rest of the world. Had a bunch of white ginger citizens, it would completely break the immersion of the story. It doesn’t matter that this is a world of Scfi and magic. There’s a fundamental understanding of why some people developed a reduced level of melanin and others didn’t, so once you break this. The audience is taken out of your story, as they cannot suspend their disbelief in the tale you’re telling anymore.

The issue with Linaria’s statement however. Is that there’s always a reason behind a human actions, such as adding in a new character to something. Take for example the replacement of male leads with females. It’s not that it’s bad by itself, but the characters they’ve added are merely there to replace the male characters. They’re not added to fill a role in the plot that wasn’t already filled.

It would be the equivalent of Aargon getting killed in the two towers and the you add in his sister Aarget, and she does everything Aargon does but better. If you wanted to add in a female member to the fellowship, the correct way to do it would be to make Éowyn join. Her knowledge and expertise of horses is useful to the group. She brings something to the table that’s not currently filled as a skill set, and her plotline of finding her place in the world doesn’t press on anyone else’s.

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On the subject adjacent to Anduin.

So I’m currently questing in the second zone still and my attention was finally drawn to Dagran.

So Dagran’s allegedly going to be the King of the Dwarves in the future. But once again, the only new significant Prince / future King(and not Queen for once) we’re getting is very mild mannered.

I mean I don’t mind mild mannered and more sensitive / introspective male characters but once again the issue is that’s all we are getting right now.

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It would have been very good taste and interesting, if everyone in the expedition in hallowfall had brown skin due to the extremely strong light source in the cave. I don’t know how long they have been in hallowfall exactly, but it seems like it was quite a long time, so their very high level of diversity is a bit weird, considering that it’s an isolated civilization, that has been trapped in a cave for a very long time :thinking: For example in Kul Tiras diversity makes perfect sense, as it’s an island with a huge trader’s port, so naturally there is a lot of movement going on. Think about it! The way I understood the story, the citizens of hallowfall are supposed to be half-elves, so I don’t understand why there are so many Kul Tiran character models also.

Reason, why I say this: Good stories follow the rules of logic and realism, even if it’s in a fantasy setting, because that’s how immersion is created in the end.

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They were not treated as aliens back then, but as the offspring of hell. And, of course, thinking of the dark portal as the gates of Hades has a biblical connotation.

Ironically, Metzen was heavily criticized for the sci-fi elements in TBC and had to justify all of it.

As long as we’re talking about human kingdoms with this trope. However, this changes immediately if you relocate to Stranglethorn Valley or Tanaris or if you choose a modern setting.

I’m not saying that’s a good thing - I think it is disastrous -, but I believe it’s the honest and straightforward reason.

Regarding goblins: No. “Death rays” disturb the feeling just as much.

It’s an interesting point did they say how many years hallowfell inhabitants has been isolated? Having an enclosed ethnically diverse society works over the short term of a few hundred years, but the diversity flattens out over say 10’s of thousands of years.

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After some thought i also came to the conclusion that the characters are now not in the hands that shaped them into what i loved anymore at all, nor do the people in charge have any care for what made them cool and lovable. Even with Metzen back, he’ll still be in a democratic art environment, with people who don’t even like what he made back then (that’s why they change it now).

In fact they get paid so much money to change it into something it never was, that they’ll willingly drive the whole ship into the iceberg for it.
The whole story is just gonna be shaped into what fits their personal and investorts ideals, and it’s already become something i can’t get myself to care for at all anymore.

That’s why i’ll also just play the gameplay parts of WoW from now on until my friends get bored and then i’ll move onto a fantasy game with more dignity where i can care about the characters and story again without feeling like i’m being preached to by the devs, and the community who’s the target audience for this, loving the preaching, bullying me into needing to like it or else i’m a terrible person for disliking it.

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I’m not sure exactly, but I like to read fantasy books, and for me it’s interesting to read, if flora and fauna adapted to some mythical environmental setting. Hallowfall would have been perfect for this. Have you read the Way of Kings from Brian Sandersson? There the flora, the animals, and the people also adapted to the environment of frequent storms