What exactly did Anduin say over and over again?
I don’t have the exact transcript I’m sure someone’s probably put them on youtube.
The General jist is:
I’ll help… If I can.
I don’t know if I can ever be forgiven.
I don’t know if you can make things right.
Basically a loop of this over dower emotional statements whenever he’s on screen. It makes him appear whiny not traumatised.
Now I get that it’s a game, you’re going to have voiceline loops. Which is why if you’re trying to do something like a mental breakdown, you have to be very very careful on how you display it.
But this thread aint just about Anduin. To what I was saying early with Moira. Realistically, Magni would be the person who’s dealing with the earthen, he’s also someone both alliance and horde have a reason to speak to or respect. Moira just takes over the show as if it’s expected. Again it’s not an issue of having female leads but in how it’s being done.
Like have an actual cutscene where ALL the earthen are behaving weird towards Magni (Not just a single sentence in part of a cutscene). So he tells Moira to take charge, while he goes to investigate things, saying this in front of the remaining Dalaran/Alliance/Horde forces. It then sets up an understanding of why we’re listening to Moira. Have him descend to the ringing depths, come back every now and then as he does, but now we have a reason why an obscureish figure is somehow telling people what to do. You can make an argument that she’s the leader of the Dark Iron, but for the horde or Dalaran’s forces, why would they care.
Also how about show Moira struggle a little leading such a massive and diverse force. After all she’s never earned any position she’s held. Would be good to see her gain some humility. Then it gives her some vision of what her dad must have been through all those years, to maybe bridge the gap between them. Instead of just having dialogue where she brow beats Magni for no reason and Magni responds as if she’s correct. “At least when you were stone I knew you were learning” learning what, that his daughters an entitled little Nepo baby???
Same as Baelgrim, if you made his death not stupid it then doesn’t matter who’s replacing him. However, the death was dumb, which makes it appear optically as just another yeet this dude to put in a woman. See what I’m getting at here. It’s not in the representation itself, it’s in the way in which you implement it.
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Yes, of course male characters are going to die and will keep dying if the story is literally about warcraft. Historically this usually meant their son would take their place.
But conveniently enough blizzard asspulled a bunch of daughters with no sons in sight to replace the dead or retired men. Take the allied race leaders as an example. Many of them are entirely new characters who could as well have been men but they aren’t because… reasons, I guess.
The problem is that by having an ubiquitous amount of female leads and an ever ebbing amount of male characters is that blizzard is not being stunning and brave. Quite the opposite.
What would have made Warcraft stand out if it STUCK to its roots because look at how many franchises are having girlpower injected into them. Star Wars, Marvel, Terminator, Dragon Age. Warcraft does not feel fresh and new. It feels hijacked, confused, bland. Generic.
The only men who stand to inherit power or technically have power are Anduin and Dagran. Both are very soft-spoken and a far cry from what men like myself would like to see… with no other male characters to fill those shoes. Only Merrix has shown some manner of respectable stoicism and cunning.
No, it is not new. It is not a ‘break’ from the norm because it has become the norm already and its not the norm that makes sense to many. We have already voted with our wallets against stupidities like Acolyte, Terminator, Madame Webb, Scooby-Do and many others. And the media has tried to shame us for it. We’ve been called racist and sexist by Disney shills for not supporting a lot of these products.
WoW is lucky its a game first otherwise it would have tanked hard by now, I can promise you. We’d be talking about it like GoT 2.0. Started off amazing, ended up in a trainwreck more embarrassing that sharting your pants in public.
Also I’d add that there is no balance here, the pendulum swung all the way. Instead of having big macho men with token female companions we have… big macho women with token male companions.
Of course this is hotly debated as not everybody sees it this way based on this thread. Some think men are still treated fairly by the story. But what can I say that hasn’t been said in this regard? It’s indeed somewhat subjective what you’d consider ‘mistreatment’ or assassination of a character.
But again… we have been voting with our wallets as of late. Girlboss movies are failing. Girlboss TV shows are failing. Girlboss games are failing.
Why the greenlighted Rings of Power season 2 is just beyond me, honestly. The whole thing feels like a money laundering scheme of cosmic proportions all across the board.
In many cases I already have… for example I have completely given up on Star Wars. I don’t buy any products related to Star Wars nor watch any of their content, at least not directly. In fact I’ve even stopped watching the guys who coast off criticising Star Wars like some low hanging fruit as well. I’m entirely over it.
In case of Warcraft it is a shame that no other game quite offers similar experiences. I like the graphics, I like the class fantasies and how they play. I think WoW is still the superior MMO in this case all things considered but the story… I’m not happy lol
Personally I don’t disagree with you in essence. There is room for characters like Anduin and Dagran. Not everyone has the physicality and temperament to be another Varian or Garrosh or Grommash. Likewise I do not necessarily have an issue with there being strong females in stories about war either.
Problem arises when someone like Anduin and Dagran is the only male representation we get(along with some tired old men)… in a story medium about WAR. There needs to be a young Kratos, come on. Someone.
Men and women are psychologically wired different. It is not very believable when women are depicted as quick to anger ferocious warriors(or warriors as in melee fighters in general) while men are depicted as the more sensitive and supportive types… over and over.
“But this is fantasy…” right, but does that really mean anything goes? There are a lot of issues I have with WoW lore if I had to start listing them and yeah draenei spaceships and lasers are among those issues. Nobody’s saying we don’t have issues with all of that. A fantasy setting is only worth respecting if it follows its own internal logic which is often derived from our own. Gravity works exactly like it does in our world. Biology seems to work the same way too - men clearly have more muscle mass and are taller on average. Women still have mammaries and I’d assume are the ones giving birth in the background to replenish the population because according to WoW’s crappy timeline we are thrown into conflict after conflict without giving newer generations any time to actually grow up but of course asspulling thousands of orcs or elves who were meant to be nearly extinct or whatever is nothing new for Blizzard.
In any case sending women and children to war is the very last resort. If they fall in battle or get taken prisoner your whole tribe is basically done for. Your unique heritage and culture is dead. From a biological PoV women are far more valuable because of how our birth cycle works. Men are more expendable. Only in modern times and in fantasy do we have the luxury of sending women to war but they rarely pick military related professions anyway, especially so when they involve actual combat. Men are wired to be more danger seeking, women are wired to be more comfort seeking.
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Care to give concrete factual examples of this?
That’s not what I asked.
I asked why is it bad to have a change like this? It doesn’t have to be a permanent change; just for a while. As a balancing thing: X number of years with WoW being dominated by male characters, X number of years with WoW being dominated by female characters.
Why is the first thing okay, but the second isn’t?
For WoW it is. I don’t care about the rest of the world and all of media and whatever you want to throw at it. We’re talking about WoW on a WoW forum.
Even if I was to agree with your assessment there, that would be balance.
Years of male domination → Years of female domination.
Balance.
But what you want is:
Years of male domination → Years of equal domination.
That’s not balanced overal, is it?
After those years of female domination, THEN it should change to equal domination.
Or it could go to male domination again, if they want to do it in waves, I suppose.
I am happy. I like the story of TWW so far.
No you WANT there to be someone like that.
But also: I think there’s plenty of ‘manly men’ still in the game. Most are just at this very moment taking a backseat. And that’s fine, looking at the greater balance again.
I’m sure there’s going to be characters like the once you like again in due time.
But for now, I’m going to once again quote one of my favorite quotes:
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I just think that all this frustration and insecurity masquerading as anger and rightious fury against the woke agenda is delightfully ironic.
Aside for the few people that genuinely feel their way of life is threatened. To them i say, welcome to humanity, no culture truely lasts, change is inevitable.
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“Conveniently enough”, Blizzard doesn’t need to do that, since the Warcraft lore isn’t RL history and female warriors have existed from the beginning in it. Alleria Windrunner was a hero unit even back then in Warcraft 2.
Because why should they? 
Let’s take a look at the faction leaders right now:
Horde:
Thrall, Rokhan, Baine, Lor’themar, Gazlowe, Ji, Kiro, → 7 men
Lilian, Calia, Thalyssra, Mayla, Geya’rah, Talanji, Cindetresh → 7 women
Alliance:
Anduin, Muradin, Falstad, Malfurion, Mekkatorque, Velen, Turalyon, Genn, Umbric, Ezramin, Azurathel, → 11 men
Moira, Tyrande, Alleria, Jaina, Aysa → 5 women
Did I forget anyone?
As mentioned, the “girlpower” was always there.
And that’s the whole point. You have two characters who don’t fit the usual stereotype and you start to complain about them - when all the other characters (Genn, Varian, Garrosh, even Thrall most of the time) perfectly embodied the “strong male hero that never wavers”.
Still, you can’t compare these with this situation. Shows like Batwoman, Velma and Co. actively preached to their audience about political issues and social justice. Blizzard didn’t do that in their games. Yes, the characters became “more diverse” - but it never affected the story or the immersion in any way. Unless you explicitly want to say “I want my videos games to stay male power fantasies!”, what’s the problem?
Because this is supposed to be a male power fantasy?
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Sorry i read this again
How to tell a bunch of nerds that your dad never hugged you after 18 a d had anger issues and your mom was your only emotional support.
/sarc
Hey hey hey thats no way to accurately disarm the CEO of all men. Shame on you.
No because it’s the equivalent to having only helpless damsel in distress bimbos, as your in the game as your representation of women.
No, let’s be honest it’s not this is it.
The alliance side is realistically this
Alliance:
Anduin, Tyrannde, “Moira (In quotes because the other leaders of dwarves are basically sidelined because it’s the Moira show.)” Magni - basically benched, Turalyon, Genn’s Daughter (forgot her name, Admiral proudmore, Jaina, Alleria, “Valen (In quotes, as he’s been none existent functionally since legion.)”
The only real visible leaders of people in the game for the alliance now, that are male, are Turalyon and Anduin, and they lead the exact same people. The gileans are now led by Glenn’s daughter, for no real reason, at least the Kul tirans being led by Jaina’s mum makes sense. Malfurions a leader for a whole 2s every expac until he’s yeeted to the shadowrealm for random reason.
Granted the Hordes got more male leaders, but then in almost every storyline they are put in the background, pretty sure poor old Baine’s still sitting on that step in Oribos 
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You do realize that Anduin still knows how to fight, even when he’s not a warrior-demigod like his father, right? Not everyone can be a warrior.
With this, you have successfully proven that you have no idea what you’re talking about and that you didn’t even pay attention to the story.
It wasn’t Moira who investigated and finally woke up the Earthen, it was Magni, the “benched character”. And it was Kurdran Wildhammer with his clan who trained the new Stormriders of Dornogal and fought the Titan machine with them.
“Admiral Proudmoore” is Jaina - she took over as Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras from her mother back at the end of BfA. No idea why you would even include Katherine in that list, she is a secondary character and not even in the Alliance leadership. And “Valen” is called “Velen”. Seriously, this is not a list of “real alliance leadership”, it looks more like “alliance leaders that you vaguely remember”. 
Really? Who is Anduin “leading” right now, except the player?
The reason is that Tess is in charge of rebuilding Gilneas; different from Genn, who’s more proficient in Warfare and therefore stays with the Alliance leadership. And Katherine is no longer Lord Admiral. These are all things you learn when you pay attention to the story. 
But are they “manly” enough?
You talk a big game for someone who cherry picks responses. People are literally give example after example, saying it’s fine having the weaker male characters, but it’s not ok to have zero strong ones and again you and your ilk in this chat just twist and twist statements cherry picking responses.
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Do you guys need strong male figures to admire and look up to?
I have never had a hero / someone I gush over and put a poster up on my wall (I did have a buffy the vampire poster i have to admit)
I could be surrounded by an ocean of ladies and wouldn’t think hmm where’s the strong male dude’s at.
Think I’m a sociopath or something, I mean who doesn’t have a hero?
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I’m quoting the parts of your posts I disagree with, show evidence why they are wrong or ask for examples when you make any claims.
f.e., I asked you when Faerin’s race and gender are relevant in TWW, where the fact that she was female was actually important (My point being, that her sex and ethnicity didn’t matter in the story so far). You answered that if the Main cast were replaced with women, this would be intentional. Tell me, was that me cherry-picking or you moving the goalpost to another point of the discussion?
This is still a matter of definition. You still want to make people believe that Anduin is not a “strong character”, because he’s working through an imprisonment in literal hell.
When pressed to give evidence for his “constant whining”, you basically admitted that “it’s not even in the cinematics that much” and that you’re basically just annoyed by a looping voiceline, which is… a game mechanic.
From my POV, you seem to be a person who doesn’t pay attention to the story that much, but instantly jump on the “Real men should be…”-train, without even thinking about why characters act the way they do. Didn’t Anduin act like a “real man” here?
Just a quick summary:
He was captured and kidnapped by an interdimensional villain, was chained in hell for months, still tried to reason with his enemy, didn’t give in at any point until he was forcefully mindcontrolled and had to watch his body hurt and kill others without being able to do anything to stop it, damned to watch and to obey. After he finally managed to break free of this control (by his own effort!), he has PTSD-flashbacks, yet STILL continues to fight for the planet.
Are you really telling me that Anduin is not a strong character, just because he’s facing a crisis of faith right now and lets us see his struggle? Did he fail at any point because he wasn’t trying?
Th problem is that your view on strong male is diffrent. Something you ignore just as much. Ill say again. Anduin being able to admit his flaws and weaknesses, admit his fears and work on them makes him a strong man in my eyes. Either rebute this or stop saying others cherrypick while you do the same.
Genn graymane admitting that he is a. Old and b. A king of an era of war, deciding that the new genertion should be led by his only remaining heir, is not weakness, if is wisdom. Please rebuke.
Malfurion stormrage picking his family over yet another world defining role does nit make him weak.
I can go on
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Anduin was still getting stuck in even though he was a crybaby loser. It’s not like he stayed home and didn’t try at all.
He knew he was a loser (relative to his true power) and he still tried, that’s pretty tough as far as I’m concerned.
Yeknow i wouldnt have picked those worda but s kul tiran in that outfit msybe with a siggy can talk like that to me any day
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what do you mean this addon. this game lacks male characters since wod.
what was the last important female character that died? ysera but she was resurrected
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Razageth!
And eh
Eh
Elisande
Eh…
Ok admirring not alot of women die…or not memorably. Granted when there arnt alot of main women to kill off…eh…
Sure we coulda killed a few i guess.
It seems i am pro killing women, in world of warcraft.
I’m imagining him sitting behind his pc doing the main questline and every time a woman shows up on screen, he spits out his drink and yells: TO THE FORUM!
He keeps insisting that Khadgar’s dead, for instance.
This dude doesn’t even play WoW. He’s just here to complain about agendas.
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I think this as wel sometimes. Like, oh no more women in charge than men?! My fundamentals are S H A K E N. I cannot operate like this, how dare they not put in classical masculine M E N. I want pecks, bulges and women swooning as they run back to the FIELDKITCHEN to cook me up some arathi MRE but not before that feisty HEALER lady fixed up my big manly gash that i got after fighting a MALE orc.
I know non of ya will admit it but you’d love this.
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