Where Are the Strong Male Figures in the Latest Expansion?

Community General Discussion
881

Now that is not true. I do care.
Because I’d like to know someone’s real intentions and/or reasons and not some fake made up ones.

I’m not here to stop you; I couldn’t do that even if I wanted to.

I don’t agree with such views overal and I do have disdain for some of the rhetoric, but you are in your right to have those views. What I am here for is to try and debunk the nonsense that is being used as arguments; THAT is what I really dislike.

Using complete hyperbole and/or just blatant falsehoods to try and make a point.
That’s just not okay.

So it’s not about the view; it’s about the ‘how’. To me anyway, I can’t speak for others of course.

2 Likes
882

May I ask what rhetoric exactly?

883

Well first and foremost just the overal idea of what a ‘strong male figure’ is. To me a lot of the views from the people who agree with this thread’s premise just feel very old-fashioned and narrowminded.

But there’s also: The hatred for inclusion of specific minorities or races or that focus on female characters is bad.

884

I mean why do you need strong male characters?

885

So you’re basically alluding to the fact that Anduin is seen as weak.

Right, without getting into the nitty gritty of comparing his scars to the scars of previous male characters(because thats big dumb in any case), let’s for the sake of the argument pretend his trauma is objectively about as big and terrible as that of Thrall or Garrosh or Grom or Tyrande or Valleria or Sylvanas or Arthas or Varian himself.

The other characters pulled themselves together and kept following their goal and purpose, albeit in some cases like Tyrande or Garrosh it became misguided. So in this sense he is weak… WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF WARCRAFT’S UNIVERSE ITSELF, IGNORING MODERN SENSIBILITES OF COURSE

Well, except maybe Thrall. Now that we’re on the topic I believe many did criticise Thrall for going on his vision quest and leaving the Horde to Garrosh. I still remember the arguments that Garrosh basically going bonkers and all that was largely due to Thrall not taking enough responsibility. Oh yeah, then he also cheated during Ma’gora but whatever. Thrall lost a lot of respect as a character for that and rightfully so.

Now imagine.

This scenario could happen again. Turalyon could be Garrosh 2.0.

Anduin was trying to be peaceful to a fault in his earlier days. He had Garrosh nearly kill him twice. Twice. Plot armor saved him.

Garrosh was not poisoned because Anduin decided he’s going to interfere. Boom, WoD. Boom, alt universe Gul’dan instigates another Legion invasion.

Ignoring the consequences Anduin simply came off as ridiculously naive and easily taken advantage of. That is not seen as a strong trait, not in times of strife and war… which is Warcraft’s perpetual state.

Okay, in any case, he had his badass moment in the BfA cinematic, donning his cool armor, casting that mass resurrection spell. Looking like Brad Pitt. Oh, except Sylvanas gained the upper hand in that battle and it was up to Jaina to save the day. Not once. Twice. The whole expansion was about the Warmaidens after all.

So we saw a male character’s victories overshadowed or outright undermined by a more powerful female character and it has been an ongoing theme ever since. And that was really the only visible badass moment Anduin was ever afforded, the assault on Tirisfal.

In any case. We all thought surely he was going to be the ‘perfect’ leader and find balance between being a spiritual leader but also learn from his father to be a warrior when the situation called for it. You know, be the perfect yin-yang of feminine and masculine because he was clearly a very effeminate and emotional boy while his father was stoic and overtly masculine to a fault.

In conclusion he is a badly written character because he has not had a proper character arc filled with amazing acts and he is constantly undermined by other characters who take the spotlight. He is a weak character within the story itself because of… everything above, honestly.

He is constantly running off, undermining his father’s authority, nearly getting himself killed… running off again despite being King, wallowing in self-pity…

Why don’t we turn this conversation around, actually, and ask… why don’t you or anyone tell me why Anduin is a strong character and/or a well written character?

3 Likes
886

I disagree.
I would put it this way: WoW’s writing was simply bad and ‘realistic trauma’ was just ignored. Warcraft’s stories were simply big, stupid and bombastic.

I just disagree with that assessment. You can see what you see; but I just don’t view it that way.

Who cares?
I simply don’t care who does the cool thing; as long as there IS a cool thing (that was one of DF’s issues imo; not enough cool things).

I’ll agree on the bad writing. As I’ve stated plenty of times: I don’t think Warcraft’s writing has ever been good. It’s been cool. It’s been big and bombastic. But never good.

TWW is actually the first time where the main story drew me in. It’s still not high literature, don’t get me wrong; but for Blizzard standards I think TWW’s main campaign so far (this is only the start of the saga, remember) has been cool and immersive and interesting.

  • Because he does what he believes is right.
  • He’s kind and understanding. He cares.
  • He’s honest about how he feels and what’s bothering him, instead of bottling it up inside.
  • Ultimately he would sacrifice himself to help those in need, as shown plenty of times. That makes him heroic and selfless and that makes him strong.
  • And all of those things fit his personality that we’ve been seeing over the years.

Also another point:

  • His arc is not over; you’re judging a person just after his lowest point. There’s a lot more to come.

As for the ‘well-written part’; see my comments above in this reply.
I never claimed he was well-written. I claimed he is a strong male figure (and he’s not the only one, because as the title of this thread claims; there’s none. Which is just nonsense).

887

True considering that WoW was actually surprisingly dark. Demon Hunters burning their eyes out and binding demons to their souls. The Horde capturing Alextrasza and forcefully breeding her to spawn new mounts - then there is how Garrona Halforcen was created and more.

You clearly have zero idea who Ken Shiro is. Fist of the North Star. The most deadly assassination art in human history. lol not all anime is for children.

Sounds like $imp talk. Elevating females as superior to you in every way and placing them on a pedestal just because they are females.

The problem is that Warrior Women was still FEMININE but in the “modern audience” era. Masculine is the new feminine and feminine is the new masculine.
The original She Ra Princess of Power - Xena Warrior Princess - Witchblade - Warrior Nun Areala.
There has been female presence there all the time. But they came and went.

The writing direction is the same as the likes of Disney Star Wars the Acolyte - Written and developed by females for females.

That is obvious. You play a male or female in games. It also changes interactions with your character. Like Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 games.
Are you a boy or girl does matter. Androgyny is something the vast majority of people reject. Only few people find Males and Females to be problematic.

Somehow the female Titan is going to be superior to Sargeras in every way. In service to the Matriarchy of course. It would not surprise me if the Alliance and Horde and all of the subsequent factions are under COMPLETE female rule by then. Besides the Forsaken seeing as you’re Undead and all. For the Living Testosterone will be deemed a poison and active measures taken to minimise it.

You are wrong. Just because they are Black this does not mean they are Woke. This is a lie that has been pushed that the color of your ski your orientation or the $ex that you are born means that you are FORCED to be part of an ideology.

Ready 2 Rumble Boxing 1999 on Dreamcast. Had Afro Thunder on the cover and a mixed or “actual diverse” cast.
Orchid Killer Instinct 1998 Black Woman but still a formidable fighter.
Eddie “Skate” Hunter Streets of Rage 1991 black man.
You can go from decade to decade and see that before the rise of Wokeness there was many prominent non white characters.

Now activists are EXCLUDING Whites and claiming to be “inclusive”. It is not accidental that you are forbidden to play as a White character in Condord.

People like you are part of the problem. If it has worked for almost 20 years. Just destroy it and try something new?

1 Like
888

Okay to address this.
Anduin is still the leader of the Alliance so his demeaner and presence and inspire or demoralise the people. Which is why unlike his father Varian. He has to radiate strength - stoicism - decisiveness.

Genn Greyman finally getting Gilneas back just to abandon his people is a dereliction of duty. He has already lead his people through several wars against the Legion and the Horde and more. Why now BUILD something to leave to the next generation.
Imagine the difference between parents and older generations. You inherit their debts and problems or you inherit property assets money and a future that they prepared for you that they resolved said problems.

Malfurion Stormrage - after having a new world tree with the souls of their dead and trading himself. The new generations will need a leader and trainer.

There is the saying that Bad times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create bad times it is a dereliction of duty, to know that others depend on you for guidance and leadership and then cast them aside for your own selfish reasons.

A short time of rest is understandable. It’s like swimming, eventually you need to come up for air.

This is what audiences respond to.
For example one of the very few times that Disney era Star Wars actually one some good will with people is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqcNx2B9HVw&ab_channel=MechaSalesman

The scene were Luke Skywalker saves everyone from the Dark Trooper (super droids) he did not say anything until the job was done - just came - kicked a$$ - then once the threat was neutralised he left Grogu the choice to come with him.

This is not the ruined version of Luke Skywalker as time and time again male characters are torn down so as to never outshine female characters that are almost always portrayed as superior to them in every way.

Modern day “strong female” characters are just men with lady bits. For example Prey 2022 supposed to be a predator movie. Has a female main character told that she could not be a warrior so just to prove the boys wrong. She is swinging axes and throwing French men around JUST like the boys. A feminist fantasy not a good movie. Since the Yautja (Predator species) always target the strongest and most capable prey on each planet.

Ellen Ripley from Aliens used her wits and intelligence to outsmart and outmanoeuvre the Alien that was hunting off and taking out all of the marines one by one and saved a child alongside of her.

889

Wrong, Prey is a great movie, I really loved the comanche version.

Edit: I think you would have cried over Aliens/Ellen Ripley if it was released today, same goes for stuff like Xena etc.

890

Whether or not you intended it, this entire thread is full of the worst people this game has to offer. But I’m glad they’re all crying and malding over this stuff. I’m glad everything they love is being ‘taken away’ from them. It’s hilarious.

1 Like
891

This post again?!
They wait until the weekends to bring this topic back up.
‘What a coincidence.’

892

Weird how you prove yourself to be correct.

893

Ok. I lived in Japan for many years, I’m fluent in Japanese.

And this your comment here is the stupidest sh!t I have ever heard.

It is amazing how people like you always claim to be tolerant, inclusive etc blabla, and then you expose yourself, because you’re ready to attack and rip down anyone, as long as they’re not part of your club. How are you not disgusted by yourself? Boggles the mind.

4 Likes
894

I had to google him, yes.
So?

Ahuh ahuh. It’s still just a silly cartoon.
Nothing wrong with that. But don’t act as if it means something.

I didn’t say it was.

What? What does any of that have to do with what you quoted?
I think you’re just somehow personally insulted that I told the truth about anime’s origins. :sweat_smile:

Oh well.

Okay?
That doesn’t change facts.

I didn’t do any of that. I merely pointed something out.
He then confirmed and I literally said ‘okay’. How is that attacking and ripping someone down? :thinking:

I guess there’s someone else who can’t deal with the harsh reality of things.

More so because the various times I was asked to provide examples or proof, I did so and never got a reply. Facts don’t lie and apparently some people can’t handle that. :person_shrugging:t3:

895

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMPGyJtB0Xs HES BACK!

896

No strong male figures and no real Horde representation in the main story. We get Lillian Voss for a bit but that’s not exactly fair and it still contributes to the first issue.

Are Blizzard just blind or do they feel that this stuff is alright? Is it fine because its men being excluded? Do they have any testosterone in the dev team at all?

They certainly don’t have much of a memory cos they release a new “Strong Female Lead” character in every single recent expansion - bonus points if that female hero comes into a leadership role after male predecessor gets ritually gutted beforehand. Then they promptly forget them!

The ratio is completely off…

897

only good thing is that pilav is back to comment on the bad portraits of males in this game.

I had to exist the cutscenes in Hallow fall were they paint Anduin as weak. He did resurrect all the allies. When charging Sylvannas in Undercity. The way they make him look like sloppy joe. I dont get why they paint men looking weak and wimen looking stronger.

898

Some people liked Disney Star Wars Acolyte as well. But Disney refused to waste another $180 million on it. Point is that people are allow to like bad content. But it does not mean it is not bad content.
It was yet another girl boss movie made for the “modern audience” They will never recapture Predator 1.

Make sense.

If you understood Kenshiro then you would not have made your statement.

“Silly Cartoons” can influence the culture - become tv shows and movies - sell merchandise - have people dress up as cosplay. You have a very narrow view of the world.

You place being able to speak to a female as the most important task. Like the loot at the final boss of the raid.
Meaning that females are placed on a pedestal considered superior beings in everyway. I stated it as such to demonstrate how people like you come across at times. It’s like if Gym bros instead of asking: do you even lift bro? they instead ask: do you even talk to girls bro?
If you are just enjoying your anime or playing your videogames. You don’t divide your attention.
But yes feel free to continue your worship-all-females-everywhere-for-simply-being-females thing.

They are not going to course correct. Can even reconsider classic. Perhaps they will catch up to MoP - WoD.
Strong male characters are a thing of the past.

899

no Thrall no game Chris Metzen is like taking a break. Since they make all the male role models look weak, when they could kick someone in WOD:

I swear this emasculation of males started with legion.

1 Like
900

because of lead designers are all wimen, who kicks the men who were in charge though there could also be corruption and jealousy of how cool Arthas Wrynn Bolvar were