As someone already said, alliance were doing quick stealth strike in Vol’dun and how the vulpera or even the horde could know about it, if the 7th legion striked without any warning, it was pretty much starting assault without declaring war
you know what? its been a while. let us all do the vol’dun campaign again once and for all. and set the records straight. but I am fairly certain the Alliance didn’t pop up from the horde side until the world quest happen in Vol’dun
I have. It’s not mentioned that they know about the war but you have to be pretty oblivious not to notice. I don’t know if it was explicitly said that the vulpera didn’t know about the war.
I don’t hate it. You are the ones trying to pain a viable military target as innocent.
From an Alliance stand point we didn’t know that the vulpera don’t know about the war. From our stand point it was “Horde are using fox people to transport whatever”.
That is me on a personal level because I really hate vulpera. But lets switch Vulpera with some other race, lets say Tortollan (I like Tortollan) I would still say if the Tortollan were transporting Horde shipments knowingly or unknowingly of the huge faction war they would still be a viable military target. And to show you even further how much unbiased I am in this, if the vulpera got hit by the Alliance without helping the Horde I would have considered that amoral.
Why not the Horde warn them
The 7th legion did not start the war and the war certainly did not start in Voldun.
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So… the dunes… first of all… Its a massive desert in the lore… A massive desert the Zandalari punishes their own. Sending them to die in there… Vol’dun does not have a goverment… it has no structure… You have a bunch of exiles with no resources or technology or structure or anything to speak of. Scattered around all over the place. In smaller and bigger settlements in between.
They are just ragtag people roaming the desert trying to find some water and resources to survive off. They have no connection to the outside world… No news comes to them other than what new exiles from Zul’dazar would bring with them…
Its not like the exiles can just leave the dunes and come and go as they please. It wouldn’t be very much of a death sentance to be sent there. If escaping it where that easy… Its not like everybody could just build a boat and leave.
I feel like you all underestimate how wast and disconected the Exiles are from both the rest of Zuldazar and the outside world they really are in the dunes…
And to expect them all to alert each other over the notice of a single alliance ship in the middle of no where? Just really doubt that ever happen… Even if they did. Its clearly implied that the Vulpera had no idea what was going on at the time of the 7th legions strike.
So moltensage said the same thing… And I’ll reply the same to you as I did too him… But there where soo many different approaches the Alliance could have done with the Vulpera. than trying to scare them away and burning them later. But the lore just wasn’t written that way… It was written in that way that the Alliance went for the overkill and the offense approach.
Thats just how the lore was written. And from a Vulpera stand point. That doesn’t make the Alliance look like the good guys anyway at all.
My entire arguement in this thread. Was that sometimes… just sometimes…? The alliance are capable of being the bad guys too… Not everything they do are always morally good and right. Thats it… thats literally all I am saying.
Very well… I wont argue with you here. I still think the Alliance could have done differently -IF- we where talking about real people here… but we aren’t. This is a fantasy world and the lore was written by someone the way it was. And I just think the Alliance can sometimes be the bad guy too… Not everything they do is always justified… And I didn’t expect this much resistance to making that point.
-Fully knowing- the horde has committed allot of evil and wrong doings in the lore.
Ok so I must have misunderstood you. I never claimed it was morally right. My point is that it wasn’t evil and that it wasn’t unprovoked/without a reason. And I still stand by what I said that the Horde are more at fault for what happened to the Vulpera than the Alliance.
If we were talking about real people I think the outcome would have been much worse judging by history, but you might have more faith in humanity than me. Cheers.
Ok we are backpedaling here. Hitting a viable military target is completely justified, even more so given the context the Horde were the aggressors in that conflict, and that does not make you a bad guy. It would have been unjustified got the hit if they were not collaborating with the Horde or if there wasn’t a war between the two faction. Supplying the enemy is an active provocation and an attack is absolutely justified.
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Where they really tho? A viable millitary target? When you arrive at the world quest the Vulpera are fighting of the Alliance with brooms and sticks… Yeah you could say they where carrying supplies for the horde. But this is like taking out unarmed unknowing civilians with full force… Viable military target or not… the measure is just so extremely overkill at least I wouldn’t call it justified.
I don’t really remember the quest. Were the Alliance soldier killing the Vulpera or just torching the caravans and tents. I kinda remember having a quest to kill Vulpera, but I am a murder hobo and a warlock I am as chaotic evil as I can get, also I really don’t like vulpera.
Dead honest 
I don’t remember very well anymore either… So thats why i am saying we should all return to the campaign and settle this once and for all. Have a look at things again and set the records straight.
But I am clearly under the impression that they where killing the vulpera. And they where running around in fear and on fire.
If I am wrong then I really apologize
Pretty sure it was WQ during a Vol’dun Assault. Also I am not stepping foot in BfA again.
But I also wanted to point out that we don’t really know what happened before the burnings and probably killings because it wasn’t written. There is the possibility that Alliance tried to confiscate the cargo and the Vulpera resisted that led to the burning, an attack on an officer is a provocation of force and is considered an a attack even with a broom. And on the other hand straight up killing unarmed people is considered a warcrime. So yeah it can go both sides with more context.
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Some mentioned that the Vulpera were just trying to survive by trading with the Horde.
Vulpera survived in Voldun long before the Horde. Vulpera choose to serve the Horde before becoming members and serving them more directly.
The Alliance took the Horde by surprise. But when the conflict started. The Vulpera chose their side. They chose to stand with the Horde.
Dumping Horde suupplies and fleeing in their caravans would mean Vulpera would not be harmed. As the Alliance came to Voldun to deal with the Horde and not the Vulpera.
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I think we are of different perspective here… ‘‘But when the conflict started the vulpera chose their side’’ There is a before and after here I think we see differently at.
The conflict started as far as the vulps where concerned at the caravan attack. But ugh…
I don’t wanna argue about this and repeat the same arguements over and over and over again to the heath death of the universe. But we just see the events unfolded very differently I think.
Ok but doesn’t this raise questions, like “Who were those guys and why they attack us”, “What provoked the war”, “Why didn’t you tell us there was a war in the first place”. All this paints the Vulpera as compliant with the Horde in the worst case scenario. I mean you can only faint ignorance and innocence for so long.
The horde has just helped them over throw the Sethrak emperor who had enslaved/ eaten them for gods knows how long.
The Alliance came out of no where and started burning their 
And claimed too be the good guys later.
But again the lore is just written this way. Its not real people… ‘‘OK but doesn’t this raise the question X Y Z’’ Yes i am sure it would if we where talking about real people here but the lore wasn’t written like that. And there is no lore as to how the Vulpera takes a stance in the Horde versus Alliance conflict. Other than that they do not see the Alliance as any better than the horde due to their attacks on their caravans in the dunes.
So did the Alliance. There were 3 prochest??? (Idk the Sethrak were led by triumvirate) Horde helped one, the Alliance helped the second one and the third we killed. It was a joined effort.
Yes but just because it’s not written it doesn’t mean you cannot apply logic to fill in the events. Either they didn’t ask because they didn’t care and chose to stay, they asked they didn’t get an answer and chose to stay, or they asked got an answer and chose to stay.
Then why didn’t the Alliance fill in the vulpera either when they helped then too about the war? Imagine the sense of backstab the Vulpera must have felt having their caravans burnt by the very same guys that had just helped them overthrow the emperor.
I mean you can if you want. But you can fill in all the blanks you want today. And blizzard will write new lore tomorrow that completely flips everything you had in mind on its head… Therefore I always stay within the context and the lore that we are given. Instead of applying real world logic to a fantasy story like they where real world events.
Id be careful filling in blanks for Blizzard in that regard. And I wouldn’t apply head cannon context and lore to condem or judge a faction. Outside of the written intention and context blizzard has given.
Bottom line… If we go by filling in missing logic like this? We’re basically going off of assumptions that blizzard didn’t write and that isn’t the lore.
I think I worded that poorly. We didn’t help the Vulpera directly, we helped the Sethrak which in turn helped the Vulpera. As far as I remember it I don’t think we had any interaction with the Vulpera. Also I still find it very bizarre that the Vulpera didn’t know about the war at all until the caravan burning.
Oh please you know full well that Blizzard aren’t going to “fill in gaps” for something minor as this. Best you will get is if someone asks at Blizzcon and it will turn out that the Vulpera knew all along about the war and choose to side with the Horde because its the easiest explanation to come up with on the spot. Also you are filling in gaps on your own as well, you are claiming the Vulpera didn’t know about the war because no were in text said they were, it also doesn’t mention that they were oblivious to it.
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Anyway… I don’t think either of us can just assume a bunch of unwritten lore that didn’t happen …happen just because either of us thinks it would of make sense and fill in the gaps when it comes to the story.
I am not filling in blanks claiming the vulpera didn’t know… they did in fact not know… We both agreed to that a few posts up that we both had done the campaign. And that the Alliance and the seventh legion had no part in the vulpera story until the attack happen.
But I have just made a new vulpera. I am going to do the voldun campaign over again and have a look over things again when I have the time.
No I didn’t agree to them not knowing. I agreed that it is not mentioned that they knew and that there isn’t a mention of them not knowing. And it is very very hard to believe that A) The Horde did not tell them and B) they didn’t see any warning signs of said war because even though “the dunes are vast and yadda yadda” the vulpera are still scavengers and they are still scouts.
So then you fill in the missing blanks outside of blizzards written lore and the context of the campaign your self. With assumptions? I just aint doing that… I go with the lore i was served and the context of the story i was given.
But you are doing that by saying that they didn’t know about the war. It’s literally the same thing. Part of the story is missing and I am filling it one way and you are filling it the other way.