So if the Horde accuses the Horde of the (whole) Alliance for the actions of individuals (Garrithois), according to your own logic, the Alliance in turn has the right to accuse and hold accountable a whole organisation for the actions of individuals.
So according to your OWN logic, Jaina had every right to do so.
Since those in the camp have been living there for decades (at least since Classic), they were more than aware of the risk of coming under attack by the boars.
The Alliance couldn’t know that they decided to attack at that very moment, how could they?
And as I said, they were aware of the risk, they could have been attacked by them at any time and died if they had settled in that very area, they could have lived in a safe part, but instead they preferred to live close to the boars, they took the risk.
Attaching a war crime to the allainz for this is more than ridiculous.
And btw, at least the Alliance gave them the chance to escape, which is more than can be said for the Forsaken who intercepted the refugees from Southshore and slaughtered them mercilessly.
Oh yes, the demon blood as a universal excuse, it’s just stupid that it doesn’t work as you could see with the Iron Horde, or even in the fourth war
For the inhabitants of Southshore, the only way to escape was through enemy territory, and the Forsaken did not let them go but slaughtered them, we have the confirmation by a book that drops in the concentration camp, where it says no refugee has reached the Arathi Wall.
Double standards as usual from the Horde
To clarify for those not paying attention.
The Horde kidnaps the children of the Magnataur. Forces their parents into compliance. Using very real threats to their offspring as hostages. Child hostages to be specific. Murders their children anyway. Then when their heart broken parents try to get revenge for their slain offspring the Horde kills them regardless.
Why are people pretending that the Horde are not the morally worse faction?
Small acts of kindness does not wash away the blood and crimes of the Horde. Like Thomas Zelling’s family the traitor tidesage. Who aided the Horde during the 4th War.
Knowing Thomas turned traitor to the Horde could hurt the Zelling family anyway. But the Proudmoores could intervene. Even relocate them to Drustvar under the care of the Waycrests. Thus negating Lillian Voss financial upkeep.
Why relocatio Think of how the survivors of Brennedam would react and treat the Zelling family.
The same Horde that made children watch their parent pinned against the wall as defenceless civilians was target practice and the playthings of the Horde.
That robbed their dead forced them into Undeath twisted and tortured them as slaves. Then was going to use one of their leaders a Proudmoore as a weapon to slaughter more of them.
Thomas Zelling joined that Horde.
There is no clearing daddies reputation. Even for generations to come.
because stupid.
I mean, even the Germans accept the deeds of their grandparents that took place over 80 years ago without grumbling, and thus accept the responsibility that something like that will never happen again.
Some hordes really seem like extremists who say that the Germans did nothing wrong 80 years ago and don’t accept the deeds and the guilt
Blood Elves have always been weird. As High Elves they waged war against the Horde then betrayed the High Elves to join the Horde as they swapped to Blood Elves now. Just because there were a few Blood Elf casualties in Garrosh Hellscream campaign. Blood Elves were going to betray the Horde and join the Alliance.
Both Lorthermar Theron and High King Varian Wrynn confirmed that Jaina Proudmoore’s actions with the “purge of Dalaran” forced the Blood Elves to remain in the Horde.
Then the Blood Elves betray the Void Elves and left them for dead.
One race has so many betrayals.
Ooh you are touching on the topic of “German guilt” still sensitive for many living Germans.
Have to say Goblins are the most pragmatic Horde race. They don’t care about being the bad guys and have zero moral compass. Just out to make profit. That’s it.
Without the full might and complicity of the Horde Sylvannas could not do what she done. The sins and crimes of Sylvannas are the sins and crimes of the Horde.
The Horde started all 4 wars. It is inevitable that they will start the 5th war. The sons and daughters of the Alliance stand ready. Eternal vigilance for when we are needed again.
We finally agree on something.
So many Horde disagree with facts and history.
But you did agree that the Horde are the faction of child killers. Despite trying to excuse these acts because of Demon Blood.
The alliance should not been burning taurajo in first place. No burning, no casualties simple.
If talking about horde judjing the opposite faction and vice versa, looks like horde can do whatever they want but alliance better sit and do nothing even if the war broke out, but there was one big comparison list made by Kurst about various actions of alliance and horde which were bad to each other. And at the end it came to that actually alliance is slightly on a brighter side so far. But I agree that in the cases where alliance was guilty (Garithos, purge of Dalaran etc.) they should been held accountable.
In general if we talking about wars, it is not rare when defending side which were invaded attacks aggressor in their homeland in order to get rid of the crazy leader who started the war in the first place
Taurajo was a legitimate military target. Horde leadership acknowledged it as such. War will always be ugly bringing out the worst of people.
Regardless of the fact that some are forced to fight. Some does not lose ourselves in war. Which is why time and time again the Alliance shows controlled aggression and restraint.
Alliance could have wiped out Vulpera in Voldun but chose to minimize Vulpera casualties despite the one sided Vulpera aggression.
The Alliance chose to withdraw once we put down the Zandalari Troll King Rhastakhan. Choosing not to press the attack while their people was hurting. Demonstrating the differences between Alliance and Horde.
The lies of the Horde are endless
Garithos is part of the Alliance of Lordaeron a seperate organisation from the Grand Alliance and the one that exists today.
High Elves are not Alliance. Some players are pushing for High Elves to gain Alliance membership.
Jaina Proudmoore joined the Alliance during the 4th war with the Kul Tiran people.
Historically speaking the Horde always starts wars.
So why don’t you acknowledge the Horde’s actions against the Magnataur?
The Iron Horde is what the current Horde would be without the demon blood.
There was no demon blood when Teldrassil burned.
Your responses has consistently been: Demon blood made us do it.
I’m even getting lazy to respond to the hordes fanboys who cling to a burning nail and practically says that the alliance should have let itself be destroyed by the hordes…
And the old horde and horde current are the same? Again with the double standards man. If the crimes of the old horde apply to the new horde then the crimes of the alliance of lorderon apply to the alliance. Sins of the father is a flawed system
Vulpera players seem to be the worst ones yet. Angry that the Alliance actually fought back. When Vulpera were aggressive to the Alliance in Voldun.
You could go even further. Such as what the Blood Elves done to the Naaru called Muuru. Enslaved him then drained it of its light. Like magical leeches or something. Not a single drop of demon blood to excuse this atrocity.
Enslaving others in Undeath like what was done to Derek Proudmoore. Where was the demon blood then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wREeahXw1Q&t=60s&ab_channel=WorldofWarcraft
Time stamp 1:05
“Yes that was the plan” “Baine took me from Sylvannas before I was twisted to her will”.
Even in his Undead state he was broken. Then the psychological warfare of having to look into her brothers Undead eyes. She would have memories of when Derek Proudmoore was living.
Only Baine Bloodhoof stopped it. So the Alliance should remember Baine’s actions and consider Bloodhoof Tauren’s participation if any in the grave robbing operations of the Horde to secure the corpse of Derek then forcing and enslaving him into Undeath.
Eitrigg - Rexxar - Varok Saurfang.
These are Horde members that have lived - trained and influenced many generations of Horde. So. My point is that you want to make a difference between the Old Horde and current Horde but they are not differences.
Eitrigg led the Horde war effort against Trollbane in Stromgarde.
Eitrigg is still alive. Influencing further generations of Horde. Was present during the Greenskin Orcs heritage armour quest.
Putress blighted Alliance and Horde at the Wrathgate. Sylvannas blighted Alliance and Horde at the battle for Lordaeron.
Horde killed Draenai children to enter the Dark Portal - Horde killed Magnataur children in Northrend - Horde killed human children in Stormwind and across the Eastern Kingdoms - Horde killed Night Elf children when they burned Teldrassil.
Horde sacked and butchered human civilians and villages before the Alliance was formed. Horde sacked and butchered Kul Tiran human civilians and villages in Brennedam.
You talk of: For the sins of your fathers you although guiltless must suffer.
The Horde repeats the same crimes again and again.
Incorrect it is just a military operation. Kalimdor can not be given up for the Horde. Advancing Alliance interests and hurting the Horde war machine where possible. Is normal.
Right or wrong good or evil can be debated by historians and diplomats. But will be seen with the choices made and actions taken.
Congratz you finally addressed some of my points with some semblance of logic.
I thought that the crimes of an individual applied to everyone in the faction regardless of intent participation or knowledge? Am I miss understanding your point
You should make sense sooner.
Baine Bloodhoof stood alone. The Bloodhoof Tauren was prevented from stopping the execution of Baine Bloodhoof.
The entirety of the Horde leaders at the time (Since Kiro of the Vulpera joined later) sided with Sylvannas.
The Warchief is the embodiment of the Horde. Baine Bloodhoof himself acknowledges this when he said: “How many times must we forsake our honour?” and “Her deeds disgrace us all. We must set things right… before the Horde loses everything that made us strong.”
You try to seperate the actions of Horde Warchief and the rest of the Horde. When the sins and crimes of Sylvannas are the sins and crimes of the Horde.
With the Forsaken alone she would not have the strength to do what she done. But with the backing of the Horde it takes the might of the Alliance to put a stop to her plans.
Former High King Varian Wrynn. Spoke of Horde upholding Honour.
The actions of Baine Bloodhoof…must not be forgotten or dismissed. But the rest of the Horde…This is another story.
You would excuse the crimes of the Horde and blame only Sylvannas for the Burning of Teldrassil. But that was the Horde war machine.
Even with the Night Elf armies at Silithus at the time. Sylvannas did not have the strength to take Teldrassil. Malfurion Stormraged challenged Sylvannas to Mak’Gora and defeated her 1 v 1. The “honourable” Varok Saurfang cheated when he took a cheap shot throwing his axe in the back of Malfurion Stormrage.
Accountability is something that Horde commenters is waging war against. What next? From blaming the demon blood to blaming Sylvannas?
It’s not the Horde’s fault but but but…Sylvannas made us burn Teldrassil.
False accountability Is something I fight against. If I just decide your guilty of a crime of my choosing that’s not justice
The horde were told we were taken teldrassil not destroying it sylvanas lied. But yea guilty
Nope. Want an example of a perfect horde character? Saurfang honrable and righteous. Believes in justice and yet traumatised hey his past trying to atone. Died because sylvanas turned the horde into something it isn’t
