If you just generalize your opponent in a discussion as a bad person, you are in totalitarian waters. Stop it.
Same goes with your “consequences”. You build yourself up as a higher power, passing judgment. This is not how anything ever worked, and it is not going to work this time.
It is YOUR bs that will result in consequences. And you will not like them. I said it before - all your disregard for rationality, which you sacrifice for moralizing and passing judgment, will result in you not getting a say anymore. People are getting fed up. Southport, Solingen… what they do to children in kindergarden and school these days. Things are completely out of hand.
Talk to people and react to their points. Otherwise, they will stop talking to you.
This is not something that happens in a vacuum. This is a reaction to someone saying things that are considered by many to be vile and wrong - and in many places even illegal.
No no no. There’s none of that.
I’m not some kind of extremist. I can see reason.
Oh? How so?
So wait… You’re saying people are allowed to break the law because they’re unhappy?
Also; you’re using well known propaganda, a lot of which has been proven false.
Maybe you should check those facts first and get out of that bubble you’re in.
Some things are over the top; yes. But we are talking about WoW here; there’s nothing over the top in WoW. It’s fine. It’s cool. Imo anyway.
I do that all the time.
But I will call a spade, a spade.
I think you should play it first.
There is some of what you mention, but most of it is way more nuanced than that.
But you have to keep at least somewhat of an open mind. There’s some people in this thread who are incapable of that because they’re so caught up in their agenda that is all they see; ignoring all the things Blizzard did right.
As these discussions are prone to do, they wear you out. Me, anyways.
Southport and Solingen literally just happened - no propaganda here.
And the transgender agenda in our education systems is real. Google ‘original play’ and get ready to vomit. Friends of mine have left Canada, just to avoid their daughter getting indoctrinated in kindergarden. People are sueing in droves for what was done to them leading to sex-changes and sterilization - they won’t ever lead a normal life anymore. Again, no propaganda here. Also again, it rather is you who isn’t looking at a very uncomfortable reality, so take your own advice when it comes to propaganda and checking your facts.
But, I’ve done my due for a day. It’s probably hopeless anyways.
Just remember, when your conversation tactics have cornered enough people to really make them extreme in their views - you brought all of it on yourself.
Of course, but it completely depends on what you’re actually saying.
Keep in mind though: Just because they are right, doesn’t mean it is right.
If you know what I’m saying.
That greatly depends on where you are in the world. Don’t generalize such claims; because that changes it from ‘discussing facts’ to ‘propaganda’.
Like people have been doing through religion and churches for many centuries?
But that is okay? Feels like a double standard.
This is the same kind of argument that a religious family would make when their child is taught evolution theory at school. I find both kinds of arguments extremely narrow-minded.
You’re only shedding light on the negative sides.
Your own bias is really showing through. This is not a one-sided issue. It really isn’t.
You’re factually wrong. Because I do.
I don’t ignore one entire side of it like you have been doing.
Both sides have extremists. That’s never going to change. And I find both of those extremist sides abhorrent.
I think we need to find a good middle ground; that is the way forward imo.
But you can be right and representing things in a way that is utterly dishonest. Just look at most headlines where parties cherry pick the slice of the narrative that suits their own headline.
Migration out of control stop the boats! (95% of migration is through other routes, why only wave arms about the 5%?)
Violent crime doubles in …!!! ( What if the figure went from one incident to two?) Technically correct and utterly misleading at the same time.
All sides of debates tend to do this instead of engaging honestly.
You cannot be correct and racist, racism by it’s nature is an irrational hatred based purely on the colour of skin. Unless you’re trying to imply that skin colour has any actual impact on a persons personality traits (which is racist) then you cannot say that a correct statement is racist, same as a racist statement cannot be correct.
No it’s not, because a statement is examined by it’s premise not it’s components. Say for example when racist try and use crime statistics and state that black people are violent. Their statement is incorrect. Because the colour of ones skin has no impact on criminality.
Take the following statement.
2+2 is 4, so 4+4 is 15.
That statement is incorrect, it doesn’t matter that 2+2 is four. That statement is claiming that there’s a link between 2+2 equalling 4 and 4+4 equalling 15, the individual parts of the statement are irrelevant the premise of the statement is false.
I didn’t even know this was any kind of a problem before looking at the forums. I’ve liked all of the characters so far and I don’t care about their gender.
Most likely this complaint only exists here and on other similar echo chambers.
I will say though, Alleria’s character could afford to have a little more nuance. Right now she’s basically a gender-swapped Illidan with her “fight fire with fire” mentality and the obsession with hunting down Xal’atath. It worked for Illidan because he was such an iconic edgelord, but it’s not working for Alleria.
No, it’s everywhere. It’s practically impossible to find a forum where this criticism isn’t being made, and if you do find one it’s because it got censored - I guarantee it.
The arguments being made aren’t usually that there is a problem with female leads - that’s a mischaracterization. The argument being made is that they don’t like DEI characters and old characters doing stupid things to let a new character take over which is female or LGBT, and this happening so often that it becomes a contrivance.
TWW is guilty of this for sure. It’s not even a question. It happens 4-5 times in the levelling story alone. Khadgar’s death was completely senseless given his powers, and then we got a dwarf who can throw hammers from the sky to set of explosives going into melee to set them off instead, then Magni replaces himself with Moira and apologizes he was drafted into being a soldier and couldn’t be a dad (this is quite possibly the most toxic plot point in the expansion), then Anduin literally suiciding himself because he wants to be like daddy all of a sudden (though he gets saved), and finally Alleria does it as well, which is unique in that it wasn’t a male character suiciding for no reason all of a sudden.
No it’s not. If someone sees it everywhere, then they’re trapped in a bubble and it would serve them well to open their mind and explore other sides and possibilities.
To be clear: What is happening so often?
That argument being made? Or ‘DEI characters and old characters doing stupid things to let a new character take over which is female or LGBT’?
If you’re talking about the second thing; it’s really not.
It’s just being focussed on way too much because of obsession and hatred.
The way something happens is what matters. Was it cool? Was it engaging?
Then it doesn’t matter because it served the story.
It was everywhere on Reddit, YouTube, these forums it pops up constantly, this very thread is predicated on someone seeing it all the time for heaven’s sake, it’s all over Metacritic, the classic WoW community, and even the original lead producer of WoW, Mark Kern, is pissed about it.
And you’re seriously telling me that nobody is saying it? Come on.
Yes.
No. It ranged from stupid to offensive.
Especially the Magni one. That was really toxic to drafted veterans.
I actually think there are many positives to this expansion, but the main storyline is not one of them. Not at all. Thank the heavens it was short.
It’s so many people. So, so many people. If you’re not seeing it, you’re in a bubble. Or you’ve fallen for the moderation, which has been severe.
There were like 5 threads on this tiny forum who said it who got >100 upvotes, but they’re all removed.
Fun is of course subjective, but you asked for my opinion, I told my opinion and explained it, and what you give in return is “I disagree”. Which is fine, really… I just can’t agree that berating a drafted soldier who saved the world, and therefore the land, for being a bad father is appropriate. The part where they hugged at the end was wholesome, but what led up to it was just absolutely horrible. Instant villainy status for those characters for me - not that I get to decide.
And the problem is, I know Blizzard doesn’t see it that way. I know, based on the writing, that they think flaming returning drafted veterans who won the war and saved the country is just dandy. That offends me.