“It made sense” is no fact by any means. Just as it didnt show Kael leaving behind elves at Quel thalas, it also didnt mention that he took ALL of the Bloodelves either so you can ruminate all you want…
Zuljin is long dead. And we got the rank 1# trolls Zandalari in the Horde now, we dont need second rate trolls.
Cheers
Nope. All trolls are 1st rate and leage above mana addicts 
. Zul’Jin didn’t deserve to die just like Rastakhan and Vol’Jin.
Horde already had Revantusk trolls, getting Amani should’ve been formality. Helves were enemies of the Horde. Their joining Horde when they already had forest trolls in since vanilla made no sense. Sorry. To space with pixies.
Thats a great headcanon and all you got there but Blood elves had a footing in Eastern Kingdoms and Sylvannas support and the Amani were crushed time and again so yeah…
My condolences
They shouldn’t. You just seem to hate the idea of pretty faces on this faction. Blizzard did their best to cover it. There really isn’t much to talk about. It’s been 12 years. Jeez why can’t people get with the times?
After proving at least twice those old bounds would be wasted potential. Those Trolls wouldn’t give a crap about Thrall giving them orders. See orgrim.
Yes. They did. From the very first chance they got to write it. Amani weren’t even planned. I can recommend watching the developing history of world of warcraft on YouTube. Opens up some eyes.
No. Amani decided to stay because killing elves was more important to them. They were one of three or four factors why the horde lost the war in the end.
Did you pay any attention with the darkspear too? Thrall would not accepted them either if it wasn’t for them abandoning an cannibalism and the most nasty parts of voodoo magic. So Amani would be off the table one way or another. No chance they would have made that compromise.
If the deal is good? Why not. They had Sylvanas to vouch for them even.
More reasons than just basic Warcraft 2 nostalgia? Because many other groups could fit that category too.
Vol’jin personally leading the assault on Zul’aman speaks volumes.
What headcanon? I didn’t write any headcanon there. Revantusk were part of the Horde since vanilla.
And I would totally side with Zul’Jin to reclaim the land. The beautiful story about justice. Building up the loa temples - lots of cool daily concepts and revards.
And no bloodyturncoat pixies running around.
Also Sylvanas didn’t fit in the Horde too. Big mistake in adding them.
Undeads and fel/mana addicts gave a bit blow to Horde creditibility.
Teron Gorefiend and his DKs. Also being undead. Back from warcraft 2. If you want to keep edgy and evil horde elements, from warcraft 2 times, do all of them at least.
Fixed it for you.
Vol’Jin was also fighting against Zandalari. And you can play Zandalari now. It means nothing.
The Horde was also allies with Deathwing. And with Gul’dan. And with Cho’gall.
They were even allies with the Night elves.
If the narrative evolves to a point that some collective distances itself from any of the factions, then so be it. Move on.
Zuljin started off as an ally, decided to cease to be one, left the Horde to themselves because he thought he knew better, and then got mad when the elves took the initiative to mend bridges with the Horde.
Not going to judge whether i like or not said development, but that’s still what happened. And given the overall mindset of the parts involved, i don’t see how any of it was in any way OOC for anyone
Yeah, much like Lordaerons “L” has been a staple ingame asset for most of the human related stuff. Regardless of kingdom.
Blizzard’s laziness regarding ingame assets doesn’t excuse nonsensical lore interpretations.
Because much like every other Troll chieftain, he was a warmonger that looked only after those that were part of his tribe, or was allied with.
Trolls kill, enslave or subjugate smaller or weaker tribes. That’s how they work.
Zul’jin came to be the chieftain by challenging, killing, or dominating every other forest troll tribe around his place in order to further a cause for Forest Trolls alone.
Jungle trolls settled several thousand miles away, would have zero reasons to hold in better regard, some troll dude from another tribe, and from another sub-species, that fought for his own interests.
Players and people might find Zuljin interesting, but Darkspear? They never gave two Fs about him.
They already had their handful with another elitistic tribe that had recently decided to push their own dominion as head of state of something called the “Gurubashi Empire”.
What happened north, was of no importance to them.
Yeah.
Quite the same “heel-turn” as some other dudes suddenly deciding to side with those that had closed gates and let the rest of human kingdoms rot and die to some Zombie Apocalypse.
Times change. And former foes might become friends.
Here is the thing: The Horde didn’t approach nobody.
They didn’t need, nor ask for allies.
If the Amani wanted in, they should’ve been the ones to ask. Like Blood elves did.
Given they didn’t, then they lost their chance.
No…
When you ask, the Horde judges whether they will accept you or not. And it took Sylvanas advocating for them, some additional negotiations regarding information about the Maghar, cleaning their own backyard from the Scourge, and quite a bit of pity on Thralls part, to finally get the Blood elves back into the Horde.
They definetly weren’t instantly accepted. But at least they opened up negotiations, even if the Horde never asked for them.
Nah…
I’m using the Gurubashi to show that the troll race is one that preys on the weak, and that stronger tribes often abuse weaker ones.
And i’m mentioning it because the Darkspear had zero reasons to concern or care about the Amani, given (a) they were of a different kind of troll species, and (b) getting close to them would probably end up with the Amani exercising their dominion over the arguably weaker, Darkspear Tribe.
Even if B is quite hypothetical, A is a certain.
No, that’s not my only “defence”.
I mentioned how both the cultural and diplomatic aspects surrounding Zuljin and trollkind, formed a the reasoning regarding why the Amani-Horde alliance didn’t come to pass as easy as it happened with Blood elves.
And i also mentioned that contrary to Blood elves, the Amani didn’t seem to WANT to be in the Horde in the first place.
This last one alone should be enough for you or anyone to note WHY they didn’t end up in the faction.
This is how things happened, and i’ll repeat, that i’m not saying it’s my preferred route. But these are facts.
Belfies also didn’t strike me as the people that would join the faction that wanted to raze them to the ground couple years ago.
“Amani didn’t want to be in Horde” - that was decided in the TBC, in Classic we had hints all over the place we will get to them and cooperate with them.
You also previously issues that “Amani were isolationists” - and h/belfies aren’t?
The entire reasoning to put belfies in Horde was thin as paper. And we have another wonderful example of that with their wish to jump ships in MoP AND AGAIN where they actually did it in Legion “We actually always preffered to be in Alliance”.
I wonder why both factions bother with them, they’re incredibly unreliable.
With Zul’Jin - he retracted but also because orcs were fracturing themselves, and Zul’Jin returned because Zul’Aman was attacked. He did it to protect his people.
Well, that’s because contrary to the Amani, who at this point had grown accustomed to be in their back feet, the BEs were, to put it bluntly, downright desperate.
One of the key differences between both collectives, and the way Blizzard presented them at the beginning of TBC, was that the Blood elves felt like they needed allies. The Amani did not.
They could’ve get back to Alliance or just team up with naga as they did in WC3. And move to more secure place, while Amani reclaim what is theirs.
They could’ve, but Blizzard also threw some other narrative assets around in order to prevent that from happening.
Being the biggest ones called Garithos, Sylvanas and the Maghar.
And yes, if Blizzard had wanted, we could’ve had a story with Zul’jin trying to reach back again towards the Horde.
Go back to the Alliance and make the whole Blood Elf /Kael’thas arch in The Frozen Throne…void…
Let’s face it, you don’t like Blood Elves, wich is fine, but Blizzard not using them as a race in game would have been a huge waste of potential, as is evidenced by how many people play them and like their lore.
As Erevien pointed out earlier, the gap between Alliance and Horde players was significant, as I know first hand, the introduction of the Blood Elf, magnificently remedied that problem.
Amani would certainly not have done anything in that regard, you cannot compare WoW Classic now to Vanilla of the past, outside of the races, there were two issues that led to the gap, one of them, as Erevien and you yourself pointed out, was that Horde in Vanilla was more of an afterthought, it was just dropped in and did not have the ammount of input given that the Alliance side had.
The other one is Paladin vs Shaman, Paladin making the raidscene much easier, and let’s not forget Fearward from the Dwarf priests - That’s said I Always thought that was a null issue, since great Horde guilds of the past managed regardless.
I was playing belf because
Over the time I interacted more with people, I realized how ridiculously overpopulated belves are as I was quite openminded over Horde, I grown to appreciate the monster races quickly and grown to love them for what they were. I was more mindblown by Sunsoaked Orgrimmar and majestic Thunderbluff than I was with Silvermoon because it was different fantasy than #genericTakeOnElvesNo.356
I started to read about lore, that and combined with the toxiticy of belf playerbase it gradually made me dislike them more and more. I wasn’t this dissentful at the beginning, I liked a lot Horde for what it was supposed to be. At this point I really dislike this faction, and I wish I didn’t have to play alongside elves. It took like 10 years to reach today’s mindset.
Yes I did, And I did the questing few times actually. And it doesn’t really add up, why would nelves want to sabotage them when in WC3 they actually cooperated and helped each other.
Why would Alliance want to spy on them instead of actually sending to them proper ambassador.
Which brings us back to my original claim - “TBC lore was one big nonsense to begin with”. I did loremaster of outland 3 times and I was amazed how bad this story was.
The point wasn’t Arthas being Alliance, or their hero, the point of the story was he was Human, so the Elves, who like the Trolls, were already to an extent xenophobic and grudgebearing, had their entire civilization wiped out by a Human prince……STILL, after those events, you play as Kael’thas Sunstrider and the strongest of his people fighting alongside…a Human Commander, the one said to be the last voice of Alliance command on that part of the continent…and he send them on increasingly dangerous missions, in an attempt to get rid of them for good.
Out of necessity kael’thas accepted the help of the Naga to fight back the bigger threat, the Scourge….but just by accepting that help, He and his people, were imprisoned and sentenced to death in the remains of Dalaran, under the Human archmage Modera, if I recall correctly…you see the pattern there?
So far we know now, the Horde only managed to scour the borderlands of Quel’thalasm they never actually reached the heartlands, as opposed to Arthas, who wiped them out almost entirely, following up by Garithos who tried to get them killed in action, followed by him and Modera keeping them locked up in Dalaran awaiting certain execution.
You can argue sense or No sense here, but That is the story of Warcraft 3, That is the story that lead up to WoW.
And note, maybe I recall wrongly, but didn’t you actually play Blood Elf yourself? Why did you pick that option, instead of going directly to Darkspear?
Anyway, if you did the quests in the Blood Elf zones, you actually see that Quel’thalas did open negotiations back with the Alliance…but you’ll also note that the Dwarf ambassador was a spy, no way getting out of that one, and that the invading Night Elf force was rather agressive to you. Where as Lady Sylvanas sent help.
Regarding this;
I doubt it Orc stance would have changed much in vanilla, I’m one of the people who’ll argue they should have Always been standing up straight, however the impact of the change was far greater in conjunction with the long wait for it and the new models.
More customization would’ve been nicer, but tbh, it’s not much of an argument to make really, as pretty much all races were pretty basic and an Orc, or a Troll, would still be an orc or a troll…people weren’t and aren’t going to suddenly find them more appealing if they had a different hairstyle more or two.
As for Shaman/ Paladin, that’s just how Blizzard wanted it - Shaman for the Horde, as an iconic class unique to the Faction, and it’s counterpart Paladin for the Alliance………I was never really a fan of giving Horde paladins and Alliance shaman, but for gameplay reasons, it makes sense, even though they should have drasticly changed the themes there…
Nowadays, a Wildhammer Shaman makes sense, even to me, allot more than a Draenei Shaman atleast….as for Paladins on the Horde…the Sunwalkers….I guess you blocked out the huge outrage about this race class combination that was on the forums right before and during Cataclysm? People felt that was a real stab at the lore, apparantly allot more than Night Elves suddenly doing a twist and accepting arcane use again, while it was a defining pillar of their whole setup that they Did not use arcane anymore.
As for proper introductions, would’ve been nice, but let’s face it, you didn’t get those in Cataclysm either, wich is a more mature version of WoW, or should be, but nooo, uhh, so Tauren noticed there was a sun in the sky…and uhm, yeah it kinda needs worshipping too.
We Never even had a proper introduction for Tauren Druids…they were just second class Nelf druid, still are.
The Red Dragons reached Silvermoon. Further more, the Ghostlands were not Borderlands then.
Both Lordaeronians btw. Incidentally, the Forsaken were the former Lordaeronians. In fact, chances are, some of the very soldiers that were chasing Kael through the portal are part of the Forsaken now.
Tyrande also famously saved them from the Scourge at the peril of her own life.
But that is easy to forget.
And then, of course, the Revantusk attacked Quel’danil in Vanilla and Nathanos the man himself sends you to attack Quel’lithien.
But hey the entire thalassian presence of Vanilla were actually just lolexiles!
Yeah, nah. There’s a reason Blood Elves going Horde was a big upset at the time.
But it did do its job. And I wager the reason Classic can go without them is because people who pick a 15 year old game with outdated graphics and lacking transmog don’t care thaaat much about visuals in the first place.
No you just refuse to accept any pretty faces in a faction theme you would only want to have the ugliest of monsters among them. The horde identity is defined by being a chaotic mess, striving to harder means for their goals. Not holding up an outdated “is this face looking savage and ugly enough to fit with the other kids” chart board.
Yes. Outdated Tolkien esque. Modern fantasy has moved on much sooner where humans and elves won’t even be friends to begin with for whatever reason. Dragon age. Witcher series. Elder scrolls. Adapt or get dusted.