Why do Blood Elves need Horde?

Lore Story
201

You keep making accusations without any prrof to my actions. Earlier you accused me of twisting facts, i asked you to show me where and no reply, no evidence.

Once again making claims with no bases in fact or reality- Show me where it’s blatantly obvious in black and white Blunderhoof. Like point it out.

This analogy does’nt even fit here- That story was purposely told in 2 different perspectives- For the Horde it was shown to be an Alliance massacre whilst for the Alliance it was shown to be an attack that made attempts to save civilian lives but failed.

The quetchain in Quel’thalas is in 1 perspective- the perspective of the Horde player and specifically the BE’s who are reacting to the NE incursion.

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But we’ve got to remember, it’s the Dwarf asking the questions.

Out of all the Alliance races, I do believe the only race who could come with any spec of knowledge on the Sanctums would be the Humans.

It’s what leads me to believe that either the Blood Elves did accidentally and the Night Elves were seeking to destroy the Sanctums or the Night Elves wanted to fix something they knew nothing about (which isn’t out the realm of possibility. They wanted to fix Kalimdor and that wasn’t broken…)

Because we should follow the quest chain as it doesn’t end with her. It ends with the Dwarf’s head, who is asking questions about the Sanctums.

If the Blood Hawks hadn’t acted, who’s to say that the documents weren’t drafted to destroy the Sanctums, but the Dwarf wanted to ask questions first?
They don’t know what caused it, but we see the more skilled Magisters believing they caused it and I’d take the word of the Magisters, in this instance.

I do admit, it is hard to follow as the whole thing is built towards the Blood Elves leaving for Outland.

The Night Elves of Kalimdor were never truly their allies. They helped once in Lordaeron, but I don’t believe the Blood Elves in Eversong were the Blood Elven Sunfury, who travelled with Kael’thas.

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Are you puposely being dense or are you doing this to wind me up here? What use is spying and information gathering if all you gather is half-baked information. What use would that be exactly? You keep saying it’s purpose is for sabotage and yet i don’t understand how you cant get into your head there is no proof for that. Like at F’ing all ad yet you keep persisting like a broken record. Christ :man_facepalming:

No one has ever said the NE’s actions were justified or that they were’nt aggressive BUT it’s an outright lie and headcannon to say they were attacking BE institutions. And this isn’t my personal it’s the f’ing lore,it’s in black and white. What is wrong with you people??

Saying that you think something happened is not the same as it actually happened. An assumption is not fact. A deduction is not reality. Your headcannon is not LORE.

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I have to interrupt here.
We do have evidence in some degree that they were attacking Blood Elven locations.
The Sanctum of the Sun - when the player meets the Magister, you are attacked by hostile Sentinels.

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205

Surely there’s no need for me to copy paste most of your posts, is there…
So no, I didn’t respond, the entire argument is proof to me.
I mean it’s fine if you disagree, but You were the one calling others ‘pathetic’, ‘liars’ etc.
I mean, if you don’t get the second paragraph you quoted by now, then it’s not a matter of you not getting it, it’s a matter of you not wanting to get it, all the ingame texts and quest items hint in that direction, it’s all but spelt out for you, as in it’s pretty sure, but not finall, exactely as I pointed out it usually goes when the Alliance pulls something shady, and this is already giving you an inch in this ‘debate’.

This analogy does’nt even fit here- That story was purposely told in 2 different perspectives- For the Horde it was shown to be an Alliance massacre whilst for the Alliance it was shown to be an attack that made attempts to save civilian lives but failed.

The quetchain in Quel’thalas is in 1 perspective- the perspective of the Horde player and specifically the BE’s who are reacting to the NE incursion.

Tbh, I think you just didn’t get it, giving you the benefit of the doubt on this one.
The analogy fits because both are purposefully told in 2 different perspectives.
Normally I’d agree with you, but the fact that you’re here argumenting for the Alliance side of things in a Blood Elf questchain where there’s supposedly only the Horde players perspective, shows that that,clearly isn’t all there is to it.

Show me where it’s blatantly obvious in black and white Blunderhoof. Like point it out.

Wait, hold up! I Never said it was ‘Black and White’, I purposefully said it’s ‘All but’, don’t atribut words to my posts I never said. I said it was made to be almost certain, but not entirely, as it usually goes.

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206

No BlunderingHoof you made an accusation and then had nothing to back it up with and did so twice at that. I actually answered your accusation of “twisting facts” to another poster who attempted to point out were appreantly i had done that and showed i didnt.

This isn’t about faction “Bias” and the fact that you keep saying that shows how much of a chip you have on your shoulder. I play boh factions,have max level alts and have played both factions equally since i joined wow aboout 12 years ago. This is about the Lore and how people are using it to justify headcannon and push their biases.

207

Depends on what you’re spying on.

And if the Night Elves’ intent was to see whether or not the Blood Elves were falling to corruption, why did they need to know how a sanctum worked in miniscule detail?

Please, do explain.

The Night Elves were occupying Blood Elven shrines in the Ghostlands, their territory, why doesn’t this count as an attack on the Blood Elves to you?

A deduction is an intelligent conclusion based on the evidence provided.

We have evidence pointing at a certain conclusion, you are refusing to see it.

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208

Depends on whether they wanted to know how it worked or just wanted to destroy them.
The fact that they did nothing whilst the Dwarf was asking questions, says to me they were just waiting for him to come back with answers and then they make their next strike.

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I ment the Alliance in general, not specificly the Night Elves, but their history is probably why Blizzard chose them to be antagonists instead of say, Humans.
Possibly to add more divergence to the Night Elves shunning magic and the Blood Elves embracing it, and later on using fel energy as a resource.

Like I said, it’s possible the Night Elves actually Didn’t do anything, and the Blood Elves jumped to conclusions.
But like you know, this entire starting experience was centered around the Blood Elves being in dire straits, and amidst that, it seems they can’t trust those they ocne thought were allies, and their once allies chose to side with their ancient cousins who banished them from Kalimdor, and have severe issues with the use of magic to boot.
In the end this was all written to show why the Blood Elves left the Alliance and joined the Horde, so it’s pretty reasonable to assume that in any case the Night Elves were doing more than just hanging around and spying.

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210

I’m not argueing for the Alliance side of things, i’m arguing for the lore. Your not even making any sense in this reply. I already said the questchain was a pure Horde point of view, how that has any similarities to Tuarajo quest chain is beyond. The only Alliance perspective is that there are Alliance races present :man_shrugging: who give no insight into their actions except what the Lore tells us or the BE npc’s tell us.

211

Yes, because the Dwarf’s documents contained the diagram that enabled them to know how to sabotage a sanctum.

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Yeah - I suppose it’s the same for the Draenei in some regard.
I mean, Blood Elf Bandits, upon death, can shout “For Silvermoon, For Sunstrider.” From an Alliance’s/Draenei’s PoV - those Blood Elves were loyal to Silvermoon and the Horde and that’s what pushed them to the Alliance.

It’s all what the race in question views. I mean, what the Ley-Keeper and the Blood Hawks think are quite different. She thinks it’s either her colleagues (the Mages) or the Night Elves, whilst the Hawks think it’s to do with the Dwarf.

Which can provide indication on the fact that they had full intentions on destroying the Sanctum, but were waiting.

At that point, the Night Elves hated the Arcane - why not just destroy the Sanctum there and then? Why stand around, seemingly waiting for a dwarf to ask questions.

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Anyway i’m done with this thread- I don’t how you can the same thing a million different times and still people can’t understand a basic concept. Present proof backing up your statements, as ironclad as you can or just own up that you’re making assumptions,using headcannon with bias thrown in.

That’s fine, and i have made assumptions but what i haven’t ever done is make statement based off an assumption and presented it as fact to further an arguement.

At this point in time i have no more energy to waste on this pointless discussion. Who ever else reads this can make up their own minds with what’s been presented by everyone.

Peace :sunglasses:

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If I’m the one with the chip on my shoulder, then why are you the one that can’t go two sentences without insults?
Perhaps that’s how you think a lawyer would handle the case :wink:

The only Alliance perspective is that there are Alliance races present :man_shrugging: who give no insight into their actions except what the Lore tells us or the BE npc’s tell us.

Ah so, we’re perfectly reasonable in our deductions then, because guess what, that’s what the quests tell us.
And like I stated several times….the point of the whole scenario was to show that the Blood Elves could no longer trust the Alliance, so what are you arguing really, if you’re supposedly unbiased?
Or do you really just enjoy flinging insults around, thinking you have a morale highground for it?

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215

But we do have evidence to say that the Night Elves were there, with the intention on causing the West Sanctum, either some harm or destruction.

Whether they actually did it or not, is something nobody knows. The Blood Elven Mages believe that they were the cause, with some questioning the Night Elves - but could they caused things to go sour or is it more likely the Night Elves would have made things worse? I believe the latter, as their skill and knowledge on the arcane is laughable and their knowledge on the sanctums would be…bare. Hell a blood elf ranger probably knows more about the sanctums and how they work, than a darnassian spy.

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Because they didn’t have the equipment to demolish a building, so abusing the structure’s components to have it malfunction is the most efficient way to cause damage.

And a straightforward attack would have put the Alliance emissary, their spy, in jeopardy.

Obviously the Night Elves do not know how arcane works, hence why they needed the Dwarf to provide them with the information, in detail.

This is hard to determine in the chronology of things.

Logically, if you sabotage a building you should run away and leave no tracks, if you are a spy and you stumble upon a building that looks sabotaged while people are coming to investigate, you should again, run away.

I can suppose that the armed Night Elf spies continued to lurk around that sanctum in order to prevent the Blood Elves from repairing it.

But there’s a lot of game mechanics that come along with the entire scenario to really make it clear on why the Night Elves still hanged around the sanctum.

In this case, we have to go by reasonable assumptions alone. Although the point of the matter remains the same.

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217

But then this throws in the question as to why would the night elves purposely sabotage the sanctum, to then get full details on how it works, afterwards?

What’s the point of getting details on how something works after you have purposely broken it?

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The Night Elf spy had those diagrams on him, remember.
Probably so he knew how to sabotage it, learn where the Sanctums ‘soft spots’ are.

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219

I don’t think you understand my question.
What I’m saying is why wait and find out how the Sanctum works, after you’ve already broken it, on purpose? That, to me - doesn’t make sense.

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If you read the quest ‘Incriminating documents’ you will see that the Dwarf was sent specifically to observe the results of a malfunctioning sanctum.

There is the why.

The documents gives you a why to do it, and how to do it.

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