Who rules the Blood Elves? It’s Lor’themar. They are not ruled from the Undercity/Lordaeron.
I’d never play the race if somebody else was leading the Blood Elves - particularly if it was wretched, ugly zombie. Besides, Blood Elves have a marvelous knowledge of the Arcane. Teleporting between Quel’Thalas and Orgrimmar is child’s play - unless you think Blood Elves are no good with magic.
To be honest, I don’t consider you a fan of the blood elves. At all. You only want them to be serving a zombie and nodding their heads at it’s (yes, a zombie is an “it” in my book) commands. Taking orders from an army of zombie who also destroyed Quel’Thalas in the Third War - thank god, your not in charge of blood elf’s destiny.
Its a shame what happened to the Horde at the end of BfA.
Without being as categorical as you put it, i too feel that the faction has been diluted to appease values that had never been theirs.
I mean, they even went ahead and changed several iconic characters to fit better, and ruined certain leader archs for the sake of the story.
Trashing Lor’themar and making him be as dimissive regarding the plea of his people, or having Thalyssra fawn over Jaina’s prowess, are examples that remove much of the worth said characters had achieve through their past actions.
And yeah, it was rather sad how they dumped the “symbiotic” and unique relation Forsaken and Blood elves had for the sake of making LTT a shade more blue and Sylvanas a full-blown villain.
The real thing that truly trashed Lor’themar was him readily agreeing to another war against the Alliance.
While I have noted that there are other instances… but him agreeing to a war without so much as a word is the true atrocity here, he’d rather abandon Sylvanas and the Horde than to put his people through another senseless war.
There is a condition, however, where I can see him agreeing to a war though.
Sylvanas managed to manipulate him and other Horde leaders into believing that the Alliance is now out for blood, not just against Sylvanas, but the entirety of the Horde, he won’t be able to stand alone against the entire Alliance so he have to fight alongside the Horde.
But that wasn’t really met. We know that he does not trust Anduin and the Alliance, he made that much clear when Alleria tried to convince him to have the Blood Elves rejoin the Alliance, so it would not be that hard for Sylvanas at the end… but we don’t see that because blizzard can not do it with the amount of characters that they have.
There are several instances that could’ve explained him taking part this war:
Repaying the “debt” he had with the Forsaken by defending their city.
Wanting payback once and for all against Jaina and/or Night elves (assuming Lorash mindset was an extended trait amongst his people).
Greed and ambition that had him wanting to expand or secure more stuff for his people.
Being once again strong-armed into participating (much like it already happened in Northrend) and then having the situation snowball.
Responding to the open declaration of intentions that Silvermoon’s traitors made when they openly joined the Alliance (assuming he has feelings as strong as those of Rommath against Void Elves).
In all, i do think there were several reasons that could’ve backed his stance in this conflict. Even if there were certain things that would obviously not be of his liking, there are plenty more that would probably guarantee his support to the cause.
I still think that what botched his character, and tainted in an almost irredeemable way his arch, was how writers decided to make him stop supporting the war. And how they framed his change of mind or signalled his stance during several key events.
EDIT: 2 and 4 are the ones that mixed might resonate with the one you mentioned.
As far as he would be concerned.
This already happened back in Wotlk.
The forsaken also only allowed the Blood Elves to hold onto the Ghostlands, a wasteland basically. They did not need the forsaken to hold onto Eversong Woods and Silvermoon.
This was pointed out in the story ‘In the Shadow of the Sun’
Both of these are extremely uncharacteristic of Lor’themar and High Elves in general. They have never, ever, in 7000 years cared about expanding their borders. They have cared about having a place to settle, sure enough, but they never cared about expanding their territory beyond what they need.
We know that the Blood Elves did not change that much from the High Elves despite all.
His problems with Jaina were also settled following the Thunder Isle scenario, and they did still work together during the Siege on Orgrimmar.
I really can’t see him caring unless he was convinced that the Alliance would be a direct threat against the Blood Elves.
As I said. There is one condition to be made in order for him to agree to a war, and that would be if he was convinced that the Alliance would actually be a threat to the Blood Elves, and we do not see that in the story, so therefor that condition is not met.
Sure… the leader of a devastated population, who have constantly been shown to care much more for his people thriving, rebuilding, and prospering, is suddenly going to turn around and be insanely aggressive, seeking wanton murder and sending his devastated people into another senseless war to have them killed thus further devastating said people.
No, Lor’themar have always been shown to be far more sensible than that, he have his people’s best interests at heart, he prefer not to send them into senseless wars which Sylvanas’ so far was as far as Lor’themar is concerned.
He have not at all shown any greedy attitudes, any insanely aggressive motives, he have always acted in order to ensure his people’s safety. The one time he did not, was when Sylvanas blackmailed into throwing the Blood Elves into the assault on the scourge on Northrend.
I suppose we could count the raid on the Sunwell as well. But the Blood Elves did feel it was their duty to end their royalty, and reclaiming the Sunwell would be a long-term benefit.
But largely all acts have been for the safety of his people. The Blood Elf spies in Theramore and Dalaran seemed to not have been on Lor’themar’s orders, but Garrosh’ as Lor’themar specifies it on the Thunder Isle. It is clear he was left out of the loop.
But you are correct… your 4th reasoning resonates far more with what I said.
Him caring about some revenge… no, I don’t think so. And if it was so, I think that would have been satisfied with the burning of Teldrassil.
We know that some leaders were not told of the plans to invade Ashenvale and take Teldrassil. We of course do not know if Lor’themar was left out as well, but we know that Baine was. So the entire war could be a huge newsflash for him, especially considering he was sitting on the Eastern Kingdoms and Sylvanas made her plans in Orgrimmar with Saurfang.
It was a blackmail coy and I don’t want ugly zombies ruling my city from afar.
Lor’themar is the leader of Silvermoon - not Sylvanas and I’m glad he finally distanced himself from her. Ignoring her “victim-hood looks” during Tides of Vengeance gave him around of applause. Finally, the Blood Elves were being an independant race - not bending the knee to some wretched, decaying zombie and it’s armies that helped destroy Quel’Thalas in the first place.
Rommath hated Sylvanas and with good reason. I do as well.
Remember when, during the Siege of Orgrimmar, Sylvanas sardonically remarked that she was going to raise Lor’themar’s rangers into Undeath?
And his reaction being:
Sylvanas, you will leave our corpses alone, or I will deal with you here and now.
What a strong character moment! Finally he was stomping his foot down and drawing a line on Sylvanas’ shenanigans.
But then, do you also remember that Sylvanas at the Battle for Lordaeron, not only plagues the Horde troops, she also raises their broken corpses into skeleton thralls?
I do not think they sit as alien as you make them.
There have been several instances that highlight quite some vindictive and resentful aspect for Blood elves in particular.
Examples such as Hathorel or Lorash, point as some underlying resentment that the race seems all to willing to lean on and vent when the occasion facilitates it.
We had more examples of this in the Isle of Thunder (Arguably, one of the best portrayals LTT ever had).
In all, i do think that with the appropriate motivation, BEs could indeed be shown as aggressive as any other warlike race.
And given the background and the events that kickstarted this war, i still see it quite plausible of them to take advantage of the circumstances to push their own agenda. Be it against NEs in general (Lorash) or Jaina in particular (Hathorel).
Having LTTs character shown willing to “allow” said behaviour and endorse the war, wouldn’t be that far-fetched…for as long as he felt that he was in the winning team.
The new heritage questline signals some lingering sense of “debt” towards Sylvanas. Or at least the feeling that they still owe her much.
Would still make for some poor excuse, and LTT would probably need additional reasons for him to get his people involved in Forsaken affairs.
But given his arch, i wouldn’t be surprised if the angle given to his reasoning would go along the lines of settling a score and be done with it (if we are to completely rule out empathy, that is).
He did in the Isle of Thunder. Another instance that could’ve made him just give up any support towards Garrosh, and seclude himself inside their city.
But he indeed took arms and marched against Jaina while also wanting to take some additional leverage against Garrosh.
There are precedents that point at several kickstarters that put him on the move.
But there are none that point at him randomly being another extension of Anduin/Baine’s Hivemind of Peace.
That’s why i think that the closure and the brake Blizzard pushed for his character, were indeed the events that harmed LTTs arch the most.
MoP 2.0 - the only difference being - players were given the choice of siding with the current Warchief or the rebellion.
And I could see, from the rescue of Derek, that the loyalist questline was not going to be anything of significant change. I stood by Sylvanas on my Demon Hunter, just to see if their were any changes and quite simply - a different quest here or small change in dialogue there is nothing to what could have been.
I’d say, Blizzard should have expanded on this and actually told a story in Zin-Azshari, relating to Sylvanas’ ancestor, Talanas Windrunner and him being with Dath’Remar (yes, get a Dath’Remar Highborne model in there), rescuing Tyrande from the Zin-Azshari Prison.
Talanas could have been a key character to link back to the blood elf heritage armor questline. Brave, like Farstrider Sylvanas. Skilled, like Farstrider Sylvanas. Determined, like Farstrider Sylvanas.
Perhaps, just for Sylvanas loyalists - the Echo of Talanas leaves a silver arrow or some sort of artifact and you take it to Sylvanas.
Lor’themar represents a sovereign state that rules itself without need of others.
But if he is punctually dependant on his own allies for certain stuff, then that’s a reality he’ll have to accept and learn to circumvent or deal with.
Sylvanas didn’t “blackmail” him. He strong-armed a response, and presented the ultimatum anyone on her position would’ve: The Horde needed troops, and if he didn’t contribute to the faction, then several segments of it would be tempted to stop contributing to the BEs well-being.
Its rough, and cold. But that’s the way that allegiances work in most cases.
Still, Lor’themar managed to pull himself up, and would probably be fine on his own now. He also learnt to deal with Sylvanas, and keep his own ground.
And grew as a leader because of it.
I don’t particularly care about your RP or your feelings towards either race.
But said unique dynamic that went beyond the usual “friendship and love” relation that plagues this setting, was far more realistic, unique and engaging.
And it’s a shame that the current Kumbaya is probably going to dump it.
Individuals and not leaders of any bigger Blood Elven organisations. Also acting on the Warchief’s orders, not Lor’themar’s which does happen in the Horde.
Not really any vengeful portrayals, really.
They can with sufficient reasoning, of which there have been shown to be none in the recent war.
See this is the problem. You seem to want to portray him as a warmongering fool who switches side just like that.
He was considering switching sides back in MoP, not because he was necessarily on the losing side, but because his people was treated poorly under Garrosh. It is very far-fetched to even consider that Lor’themar would endorse a senseless war.
He would do it if it was to ensure his people’s safety. But if all it does is sending them to their deaths then no.
Just that they revere her… which is stupid regardless considering his threats to Sylvanas back during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Makes me wonder if blizzard are really planning two expansions ahead, well… the gameplay devs and artistis may do so, but the story-board certainly does not.
As mentioned, he does do it if it is the for sake of his people. The reasoning he went to Thunder Isle was with the intention of gaining objects of power that could serve as ‘leverage’ against their 'warchief, aka, against Garrosh, after he realised that he could not trust the Alliance either.
Aka, he’d much rather abandon the Horde than to have his people be slaughtered in a senseless war.
He’d rather want peace than a senseless war, but what he says matters a little more.
He also does not mind an aggressive war against the Alliance, provided it fufills the conditions I already put forth, atleast that is what we have seen from him throughout the story unless blackmailed into doing otherwise.
Which only happened once. When Sylvanas tried to convince Lor’themar of anything when Garrosh had a meeting with leaders of the Horde in regards to the attack on Theramore, Lor’themar outright ignored and dismissed her, she did not even try to bring up: “I pull my people out of the Ghostlands” this time around… most likely because the Blood Elves did not need them at that point.
I’ll correct myself. What truly ruined Lor’themar was him readily agreeing to a senseless war AND putting Sylvanas on such a piedestal. Considering their past encounters, it is clear Lor’themar hates Sylvanas more than he respects her.
Going from begrudgingly agreeing to send his people to Northrend due to Sylvanas’ blackmailing, to outright dismissing an ignoring her during the Catalysm era, to outright threatening to kill her during the Siege of Orgrimmar, and then suddenly; “I respect allmighty kween Sylvanas.”
She’s selfish and only cared about her own goal.
She blackmailed the Blood Elves in their own lands - they could have joined later, once the funerals of those that had fallen on Quel’Danas had been tended to, but no - she the vile b****, blackmailed Silvermoon into going to Northrend.
The Sin’dorei finally have the Shal’dorei to share common goals with. Finally, at long last, distanced from the Forsaken and with a group of people who actually understands each other’s needs.
I don’t care about your Sylvanas Bias - you’ve had it for years which is why your blocked now.
In his speech there he’s mostly talking about her in the past as living Sylvanas Windrunner, so he’s paying homage to the version of Sylvanas who paid the ultimate price with her sacrifice against the Scourge for Quel’thalas.
He’s not really making any reference or talking nice about her as the Banshee Queen though…even the last line " I’ve had my share of disagreements with Sylvanas… But I will never forget her sacrifice. She was the Ranger-General of Silvermoon. Nothing will ever change that." is in honour of her as a living…he’s saying despite all bad things that she could do now, we will always remember her sacrifice as a good soul when she was a living being"
But we can still kill the Amani there as well and the Zandalari are ok with this…
And if we go by his thoughts on what he feels, he should have done - he was never a full supporter of the war.
Plus, he enjoyed infuriating Blightcaller - that’s always a bonus. I wish Lady Thalyssra had the chance to annoy him.
Hell, it is the zandalari who ordered us to kill them in the first place.
And the amani also assaults the zandalari princess during the Vol’jin questline, all the other troll tribes do… so, eh… can’t imagine the zandalari and other troll tribes that close of friends.
I’m fully aware, yes.
Loved it, it’s a sad moment in the storyline of a fallen heroine and the turn of events and time that separated her from her people and her brother in arms, Lor’themar Theron.
The Amani are actually hostile to Horde players who venture too close.
Oh well, die by the sword then. Better remove the irrelevant clans now, before they become a problem, later.
And at least them being in Zuldazar means they aren’t in Zul’Aman causing problems for the Blood Elves, which by extension would cause problems for the Nightborne and the other Horde races.
