Why do Blood Elves need Horde?

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Savotar-argent-dawn

Individuals and not leaders of any bigger Blood Elven organisations.

They are still examples used to show spectators certain aspects of the race mindset.
Blizzard took care to make their plea a founded one, and taking either as oddities, seems to go against the very reason of their existance in this story.

We can’t have the story addressing each and every BE and how they think.
That’s when writers throw around cases that are used as examples to represent a bigger collective.

In all, i doubt that the only relevant BE characters BfA had, are to be considered exceptions to the rule.

@Savotar-argent-dawn

Not really any vengeful portrayals, really.

Well…there were several quotes that had LTT screaming for Jaina’s head. I’d say that’s pretty vengeful.

@Savotar-argent-dawn

You seem to want to portray him as a warmongering fool who switches side just like that.

No.
Prosecuting war when it suits you doesn’t turn you into a warmonger. Falling in line behind a factional war that could in the end work towards your personal goals isn’t acting as a fool.

Given we start on a basis that he indeed supported it in the end, I expected LTT to follow on this war for as long as the circumstances facilitated certain degree of comeuppance from his point of view. Or served to settle any score he might feel was left unanswered.
In both cases, and regardless of how things devolved in the end, i could see how he would be fooled to believe that could be the case. Much like Saurfang was.

Having him make a 180 heel-turn, and halt his support for a series of values/reasons that little have to do with the character, IS the alienating part.
Throwing about concepts such as praising Baine’s values, or Jaina’s honour (over the body of another beaten Sunreaver), is the sort of wrong buttons to push to explain why would LTT cease to support this war.

Because for the rest of it, worst case scenario you can argue ignorance.

@Savotar-argent-dawn

Just that they revere her…

I don’t think they went as far as revering her. He seems to weight the good and the bad, and acknowledges a ton of the bad.
Still, it also leans of a sympathetic trait that i feel wouldn’t be hard to exploit in order to explain why would he initially support the allies that helped him secure his land (specially when led by the person that died defending it).

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Leíá-argent-dawn

Plus, he enjoyed infuriating Blightcaller - that’s always a bonus. I wish Lady Thalyssra had the chance to annoy him.

Not sure Lor’themar’s so angry against Nathanos because he was the only former human who was accepted in the Farstriders’ ranks, or because maybe Lor’themar actually liked living Sylvanas, and she chose Nathanos instead…?

But I think this is valid for Kael too…before Jaina I heard he had the hots for Sylvanas too so he was quite popular back then, as said in her short story.

Oh and by the way either Lor’themar or Liadrin at the end of the heritage quests say that the destruction of the Sunwell officially marked “the last act of the High Elves”.

Since I noticed you are so anti playable High Elves in the Alliance you can use this statement in a discussion with rabid High Elf fans

(to be fair High Elves in the Alliance would probably mean either playable undead Night Elves/Blood Elves in the Horde as well so maybe it wouldn’t be so bad)

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

(to be fair High Elves in the Alliance would probably mean either playable undead Night Elves/Blood Elves in the Horde as well so maybe it wouldn’t be so bad)

When we’ve got 4 playable Elven races:
Horde and Alliance Night Elves
Horde and Alliance Blood Elves

We don’t need anymore. We’ve got the best of all worlds (Minus a few race/class combos, that only the core race can have, such as Blood Elf Paladins and Night Elf Druids.)

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Since I noticed you are so anti playable High Elves in the Alliance you can use this statement in a discussion with rabid High Elf fans

Copyright will be intended - I hope your prepared for that

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Not sure Lor’themar’s so angry against Nathanos because he was the only former human who was accepted in the Farstriders’ ranks, or because maybe Lor’themar actually liked living Sylvanas, and she chose Nathanos instead…?

Probably both - either way, I liked annoying him, just like Lor’themar apparently does.
I especially loved annoying him on my Nightborne.

A 10,000+ year old elven woman, annoying a 40 year old zombie-man just seemed funny to me.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Leíá-argent-dawn

She blackmailed the Blood Elves in their own lands - they could have joined later, once the funerals of those that had fallen on Quel’Danas had been tended to, but no - she the vile b****, blackmailed Silvermoon into going to Northrend.

There are several key differences between blackmail and what actually happened there.

LTT expected help with zero strings attached, and Sylvanas highlighted the fact that if he didn’t offer the sort of support he was enjoying from the Horde, she would simply have to take it back and devote said resources to the brewing conflict against the Lich King.

It’s fitting of LTT to expect such, but that doesn’t erase the fact that he was basically asking for something, without seemingly wanting to give anything in return. Regardless of how founded he felt his reasoning was to not do so.

Regardless of whether he liked it or not, he needed Sylvanas support.
And i’ll remind again that said help came freely out of Sylvanas lingering sympathy for her old people.
And it’s because of her, that they even had the Horde support to begin with.

@Leíá-argent-dawn

The Sin’dorei finally have the Shal’dorei to share common goals with. Finally, at long last, distanced from the Forsaken and with a group of people who actually understands each other’s needs.

Regardless of how fitting they are thematically, i enjoyed more the dynamics between Forsaken and BEs.
As its happening with the HM Tauren, the Nightborne allegiance seems to hinge from a narrative standpoint, on some weird infatuation that makes Thallyssra gravitate towards LTT.
It seems to be less about two sovereign states, and more to do with the Nightborne becoming more dependant on the BEs as a whole. It may be early to jump onto said conclussion, but those are the vibes that her character gives.

Wonder if writers will work on ways to avoid putting them constantly in their shadow.

@Leíá-argent-dawn

I don’t care about your Sylvanas Bias - you’ve had it for years which is why your blocked now.

You seem to reply to my posts a lot for that to be the case. Also, you seem to get triggered with quite an ease Lol. Chill, its jut a debate.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

As its happening with the HM Tauren, the Nightborne allegiance seems to hinge from a narrative standpoint, on some weird infatuation that makes Thallyssra gravitate towards LTT.
It seems to be less about two sovereign states, and more to do with the Nightborne becoming more dependant on the BEs as a whole. It may be early to jump onto said conclussion, but those are the vibes that her character gives.

Well if Lor’themar and Thalyssra married, technically Quel’thalas and Suramar could unite under a single banner or at the very least become an elven Protectorate of their own, and I think that at the point both Suramar and Quel’thalas would be powerful enough to leave the Horde and become independent in the politics of the world (we know this can’t happen for gameplay reasons, but I think in the lore a united Kingdom of both Quel’thalas and Suramar would be quite powerful actually)

And if they have children, they could even spawn a new race -the Bloodborne Elves with traits from both races and a huge magical power and affinity

regardless, certainly the new friendship with the Nightborne thematically fits the Blood Elves way, way better than the Forsaken right now. Because:

1. They are both elven races focussed on magic (yes this sounds very simple, but it’s an important detail now that the Blood Elves have lost quite a bit of their arcane touch “in favour” of the Light, the help of the Nightborne might bring the arcane and maybe even fel flavour back to Quel’thalas.

2. The Forsaken lost their last connection with the Blood Elves - Sylvanas and quite a lot of Dark Rangers- even if not all, admittledly- are now the enemies of everyone, and the Forsaken are just…former humans now, with little to no connection with Quel’thalas anymore. The debt in the Ghostlands was repaid too, when the Blood Elves actually partecipated in the Northrend campaign against the Scourge despite they had just had an internal civil war in TBC

3. The Forsaken Kingdom in Lordaeron is in shamble…not just because of the Undercity, the holdings they still have there are not too secured so they have to rebuild everything, not just a new capital- they have to figure out how they want to live now, they have to elect a new leadership, they have to defend themselves against the threat of Stromgarde in the south in case of another faction war, they have to reform themselves as an undead faction and government (even if they won’t actually get Calia as a faction Leader) because Sylvanas leaving them just like that is a huge blow actually, even bigger than the loss of Undercity.

For all these reasons the Forsaken still in Lordaeron are greatly weakened right now, and certainly the new friendship/alliance between Nightborne and Blood Elves bring a lot more advantages to Quel’thalas. Still, probably the Blood Elves won’t completely abandon the Forsaken in Lordaeron to themselves and still try to help them in some way since I don’t think the Blood Elves are keen on the fact of abandoning their old allies unless in extreme circustances (like the Garrosh one), but their help and involvement with the Forsaken will be quite minor from now in my opinion.

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

I don’t think the Blood Elves are keen on the fact of abandoning their old allies unless in extreme circustances

It might take a while, but Dark Ranger Velonara declares that the Forsaken and Sin’dorei are here people.
To me, this suggests that Blood Elves, along with the Shal’dorei, will work to reconnect and a friendship of mutual understanding can blossom between all 3 races.

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Regardless of how fitting they are thematically, i enjoyed more the dynamics between Forsaken and BEs.

I think this is more “I enjoyed the Blood Elves being under Sylvanas’ thumb and being ruled from afar.”
I don’t like people who want to keep the Blood Elves in that weakened position and under the rule of somebody else - particularly an undead.

Well, now it’s time for a change and finally, we’ve got a better fitting race for the Blood Elves to have friends with.
To make it that much sweeter, it’s in Tyrande’s old home - the very Highborne descendants who she and Malfurion exiled all those years ago…now are in allegiance with the Highborne of her home-city.

[Adítu-magtheridon]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Not sure Lor’themar’s so angry against Nathanos because he was the only former human who was accepted in the Farstriders’ ranks, or because maybe Lor’themar actually liked living Sylvanas, and she chose Nathanos instead…?

@Leíá-argent-dawn

Probably both

I believe that too. LTT’s dismissive attitude towards Nathanos clearly reeks of jelousy. He even has the irritated quote: “Queen’s champion or no, I can out-shoot Nathanos any day of the week.”
Nathanos himself of course claims the exact opposite in Dark Mirror : “Lor’themar Theron is a fool! He’s better suited to politics than the life of a ranger. I’ll match him shot for shot any day.”
I always found that kinda funny.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

regardless, certainly the new friendship with the Nightborne thematically fits the Blood Elves way, way better than the Forsaken right now.

I was always of the opinion that stories were nurtured and grew more rich when writers managed to balance disparate themes that appealled to a wider range of readers.

In all, throwing the Nightborne into a more generic “Horde Elf” umbrella, while also making Thalyssra be Lor’themars armcandy, might indeed feed the elf bulk, but will probably dilute in the long run the aspects that differentiated BE and NB, turning both collectives into the same vague thing.

Guess some like it that way, but personally i rather they had kept a situation that didn’t homogenise different races into something similar.
Making Thallyssra dependant on LTT or Mayla on Baine, seems that it will further dilute the differences their races have. And i don’t like losing uniqueness.

(I fear that this might happen with the Darkspear too once the Zandalari play a bigger role in the Horde).

@Leíá-argent-dawn

I think this is more “I enjoyed the Blood Elves being under Sylvanas’ thumb and being ruled from afar.”

Keep feeding your headcanon and building your strawmen if that serves as a coping mechanism for your prosecution complex.

I never said nor implied that. Would’ve probably noted it if you had actually read anything i wrote, instead of acting triggered and offended in your own paranoia.

Also, i thought you had me blocked.

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Also, i thought you had me blocked.

It didn’t save.

But I will sort it now so you can disappear forever. No need for a response

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

That sounds harsh…I thought Nightborne had learned to work alongside Trolls right now or are the Nightborne going to bring back the anti-Troll flavour to the Blood Elves too? Well we have nothing against the Darkspears at least…and as long as the Zandalari don’t support the Amani in Zul’Aman anymore…

thinking about that, maybe either Zul’Aman or Deatholme could be rebuilt as a Nightborne major base of operations in Quel’thalas…that would be fancy

[Zakkaru-burning-legion (Zakkaru)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

But we can still kill the Amani there as well and the Zandalari are ok with this…

And we can kill belves in middle of Orgrimmar in this expansion, does it mean belves are mortal enemies of the Horde?

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

I thought Nightborne had learned to work alongside Trolls right now

Trolls that don’t support Banshees.
I’ll work with Zakkaru, if he’s willing to do the same, but I doubt that is likely.

“Why you be not ‘ere wen Vol’jin be dyin’, elf?!” said Zakkaru.
“Err, well in case you forgot, my people weren’t apart of the Horde and we were being oppressed by demons and our elite…” I said, confused and bewildered.

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

or are the Nightborne going to bring back the anti-Troll flavour to the Blood Elves too? Well we have nothing against the Darkspears at least…and as long as the Zandalari don’t support the Amani in Zul’Aman anymore…

No, Princess Talanji informed the Lady Thalyssra of a portal network for Occuleth to tap into.

The Zandalari and Shal’dorei have a decent bond.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

And we can kill belves in middle of Orgrimmar in this expansion, does it mean belves are mortal enemies of the Horde?

See above…I don’t think this Troll is willing to work with the Horde’s races.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Leíá-argent-dawn

It didn’t save.

But I will sort it now so you can disappear forever. No need for a response

No worries. I don’t mind testing to see if this time it “saves” appropriately.

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

That sounds harsh…I thought Nightborne had learned to work alongside Trolls right now

Nah, its just that some individuals grew the prosecution complex overnight. Maybe Elisande dissing did get under some people’s skin…

[Призраклеса-eversong (Призраклеса)]

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

Not just Staghelm (I’m giving Tyrande the benefit of the doubt here, ALTHOUGH we all know the Sentinels were under her direct orders, so a group of Sentinels spies couldn’t have reached Quel’thalas WITHOUT her direct consent)

Why not? Staghelm was the one who ordered Sentinels to attack Horde in someplaces, while Tyrande was in peace with the Horde.

Also in Ghostlands, on that small island, where Night Elves had main base, there were 3 Night Elves druids, who were in charge of that operations, and they had some secret documents.
While in Classic all druids were under Staghelm command.

@Hellaynnea-nemesis

So as you can see Night Elves always had a morbid interest in Quel’thalas and the Blood Elves anyway (like that guy that in Darkshore during Vanilla times wanted to study Blood Elf brains in order to…research their corruption, right) , for a lot of different reasons…and probably envy is one of them

Well, High Elves and Blood Elves were also visiting Night Elves territories from time to time. We can see souls of those elves in Winterspring.
Also we can see some High Elves shipwreck in Darkshores since classic (no quests there).

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Призраклеса-eversong

Why not? Staghelm was the one who ordered Sentinels to attack Horde in sometimes, while Tyrande was in peace with the Horde.

Also in Ghostlands, on that small island, where Night Elves had main base, there were 3 Night Elves druids, who were in charge of that operations, and they had some secret documents.
While in Classic all druids were under Staghelm command.

But your making the case all the worse for Tyrande and Shandris at the same time.

They must have known that a small portion of their army had gone elsewhere. They were in charge of the Sentinel Army.

If they didn’t know about this, then that shows poor leadership on both counts.

Unless, Shandris was involved with the expedition to Quel’Thalas. She already knew a high elf ranger or two and fought alongside them…she must have known that land and where the best locations were, to set up operations.

[Zakkaru-burning-legion (Zakkaru)]

@Leíá-argent-dawn

The Zandalari and Shal’dorei have a decent bond.

I think it’s just Thalyssra and Oculeth which are humble examples of elves that are willing to cooperate, in the inn you can see a shelf who is spitting in Zandalari inn and saying how he hates the place ( Gee, if you hate it so much why won’t you leave?)

@Leíá-argent-dawn

See above…I don’t think this Troll is willing to work with the Horde’s races.

Emm which Troll again?

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

in the inn you can see a shelf who is spitting in Zandalari inn and saying how he hates the place

Missed that bit. Which inn is it?
I do constantly find the selfie ones.

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

in the inn you can see a shelf who is spitting in Zandalari inn and saying how he hates the place

What inn? Which Shal’dorei?

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Emm which Troll again?

You, obviously…wanting to kill allies like a savage - I don’t consider you a part of the Horde.

[Hellaynnea-nemesis]

I know there is a Nightborne NPC walking around who says that Dazar’alor is very beautiful, actually.

The only problem is the troll smell but this is not exactly an insult coming from an elf…trolls think the same probably when walking in elven city. But the point is that he said Dazar’alor is nice

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Leíá-argent-dawn

You, obviously…wanting to kill allies like a savage - I don’t consider you a part of the Horde.

This statement would probably have a bit more…substance…to it, if it wasn’t being delivered by the one that has been unapologetically trashing the Forsaken throughout this, and other threads. Probably.

PS: As of now, i wouldn’t blame a single race from wanting to quit the current “Horde”. Honestly, i’d back trolls going their own way and founding their thing under the Zandalari.