Why do Blood Elves need Horde?

I never said it was rainbows and unicorns, Ofcourse it was bad regardless of the justification the NE’s or the Dwarf should have come out and made there concerns clear from the start. Tyrande and Magni should have approached the BE’s and given help and disscussed important concerns etc.

It is not form the same quest no.

You are told to go to the West Sanctum where you find the quest you linked. It was indeed initially believed that the arcane sanctum malfunctioned due to the Blood Elves’ own actions.

But while you are around killing those mana wraiths you most likely come across a hostile Darnassian Spy, who’ll drop the item

https://www.wowhead.com/item=20765/incriminating-documents

Which gives the quest

https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=8482/incriminating-documents

Which says

Description

The documents contain detailed maps of different strategic buildings in Eversong Woods. A diagram of an arcane sanctum is also sketched in good detail. There seem to be numerous notes in a language you don’t recognize.

As these were carried by a Darnassian spy, it might be a good idea to bring them to the Captain of the Guard - Aeldon Sunbrand.

Progress

You’ve got something for me? Let me take a look.

Completion

Are you sure you found these on a night elf? They’re clearly written in Dwarven…

From what I can understand of this letter, whoever wrote this did not cause the malfunction, but rather was sent here as a spy to observe the results of it. They call our endeavors reckless and dangerous… but who?

Of course! That envoy from Ironforge! We were fools to trust anyone belonging to the Alliance!

There are absolutely no headcanon here.

Seriously, write what is written in the quest itself.

I even fattened the important parts.

The quests are still available in Eversong Woods, it is quite early on. I think you can go straight ahead and check it for yourself if you’d rather have an in game representation of the text that you can be 100% I did not manipulate in any way.

But this is what happened.

Which once again ALSO does not state that the NE’s caused the malfunction but we do KNOW that overuse of the sanctums does cause the malfunctin :man_facepalming: How hard is that to understand, where is this stuborn denseness coming from exactly.

There’s another quote of Velania (after completion of the whole quest chain) saying:

Could night elf saboteurs be behind this? I doubt it. With the load we’ve been putting on the West sanctum it was only a matter of time until something went wrong.

So she insists on the fact the Blood Elves did it themselves by mistake, BUT she says “I doubt”, SO not even her is 100% certain. As I said there will always doubt about it because the Alliance had literally no reason to spy on Arcane Sanctums without doing anything else bad to them, they have Arcane Sanctums themselves and know how they work, so something was probably suspicious with the whole thing.

1 Like

You wanna know the REAL reason. Blizz had to shoehorn the BE’s into the Horde and had to butcher the lore to do it by having A- Tyrande who knew the BE’s situation, had saved and was saved bu their Prince Kael’thas and had good relations with the leadership at least at the end of the 3rd War suddenly sending sentinals to spy on them like they didn’t know anything about them instead of just sending a NE diplomat.

And B- the Horde faction did not have enough players choosing it, they were outnumberd on the realms and Blizz wanted to correct the discrepancy by giving Horde players a “pretty” race to choose as well attract the Asian market who were more inclined to the aesthetics of BE similar races then say Trolls or Forsaken.

That’s why we had that idiotic NE presence in the Ghostlands and why that was supposed to be reason enough for BE’s to be Horde alongside Sylvanus helping them.

This goes both ways.

I will write the lines out for you.

As I said.

How convenient that a sanctum just happened to be malfunctioning while said spy was there to observe it.

And that Night Elves with detailed notes just happens to be hanging around said malfunctioning sanctum.

It is a possibility. There are no eye witnesses.

But the whole situation is way too convenient.

Don’t really care about your Headcannon to be honest- i presented the information without bias- And it says very clearly they didn’t cause the malfunction and as pointed out by another poster this was reaffirmed by another in game lore conversation.

What you THINK could have happened, maybe happened, potentially happened is IRRELEVANT in terms of proof so as i said before HEADCANNON.

1 Like

Well, if it’ll make you sleep easier at night.

As far as I am concerned, the information we both provided is not at all manipulated.

So neither is really headcanon.

I for one just choose not to whitewash the potential crimes of the Alliance :man_shrugging:

You are so desperate talking about headcanon where there is none, rather than talk about potential biases.

Tell me, are you a little biased towards the Alliance being 100% good guys? Player who plays a human male paladin?

Yeah exactly, “no witnesses” (cit. Alliance commander racist against Goblins :P) BUT in that case not only a Night Elf, but also a Scourge member, or Amani Troll maybe caused it…as I said doubt is on everyone, even on Blood Elves doing it by mistake.

And after all, even if Night Elves really did cause those malfunctions, I guess after the Burning of Teldrassil, the Blood Elves have pretty much forgiven them for that :stuck_out_tongue: hehe

1 Like

I highly doubt this :rofl:

Least of all scourge, I do not think that they are very prone to sneaking about and doing saboteur missions, without any direct commands at the very least.

There are two possibilities so far.

The Night Elves DID sabotage the Sanctum

Or it did in fact Malfunction.

But it would be disingenious to ignore the fact that the dwarven spy was there to observe the results of a malfunctioning Arcane Sanctum, which just happened to malfunction while he was there with Night Elven spies surrounding said sanctum and carrying detailed notes. (Of course, several darnassian spies is only a gameplay mechanic, there was most likely only a single darnassian spy round.)

Both are equal possibilities.

1 Like

Seriously :joy: This has nothing to do with bias. I have Horde alts and Alliance alts at max level. The lore doesn’t change because of what you think :man_facepalming: The lore clearly states what i said, i didn’t state anything that isn’t in the game, i didn’t add anything extra. You need to get over that chip on your shoulder, it’s embrassing.

This isn’t about whitewashing any crimes or the Alliance being more right then the Horde. The Alliance have enough idiocy in the Ghostlands without adding your own personal headcannon in to it. You really are a lost cause honestly :man_facepalming:

Are you saying that the lore does not clearly state what I wrote? :neutral_face:

My guy.

https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=8482/incriminating-documents

This is not headcanon.

This is an actual quest that you appearantly refuse to read for whatever reason?

Imagine the humiliation of being on the Alliance when we have more than enough evidence from a certain sect of blue eyed crazies and one lone assassin that doing so inevitably leads you down the path to human arm candy status.

The Horde is certainly flawed but they need them because the alternative is just plain horrifying.

And how does that quest actually prove that the NE’s sabotaged the Sanctum’s like in clear black and white, point out were it says that. All it says is that there was information about BE institutions, descriptions etc and that those were written by the Dwarf.

In the completion text of that quest it says the Dwarf was sent to observe the already occuring malfunction. A malfunction we know was caused by overworking the sanctums as said by a BE NPC which we help to contain. Then post quest text states that it was doubtfull the NE’s caused this and reaffirmed that it was due to the load on the sanctums.

So point out to me where in the lore, in game text, anywhere were it states the NE’s caused the malfunction and were there to sabotage the NE’s and not just to spy on them WHICH ialready stated was a crappy move on the NE’s part aided by the dwarf :man_shrugging:

This isn’t about whitewashing Alliance crimes, hell they have so few in the history of the game, them being there to spy, although idiotic considering what had happened previously between the 2 races, is actually a good thing OVER ALL to add some grey into the white knight faction.

Is it not irrelevant though whether or not the Night Elves sabotaged the sanctum when they send hostile spies to kill poor unsuspecting belfies that are there for no other reason than to investigate the cause for said malfunction?

:thinking:

No it does not?

…but rather was sent here as a spy to observe the results of it.

It says that the dwarf was sent to observe the results of a malfunctioning sanctum… not an ocurring one.

You are being quite disingenious now my dude.

No, we don’t know. But it is speculated before we encounter the Darnassian spy.

Surprisingly this also happens without said NPC reading the documents. She do have her own ideas, yes, so?

Point out where it says they did not?

I know you have your idea of the Alliance being this holy trinity of goodhood, peace, glory and justice. But you quite clearly also rewrite actual questlines to try and suit your own bias.

As I said.

There is a possibility for both things to have happened.

But the dwarf was sent there to observe the results of a malfunctioning sanctum, not an already occurring malfunction.

Aka… the dwarf needed the Arcane Sanctum to malfunction.

Therefor, it is quite convenient that said Dwarf would ask so many questions about the Arcane sanctum’s function, and said Darnassian Spy was carrying the detailed notes.

Hey, gotta cover up that you are the culprit.

What the Night Elves did in Quel’Thalas was rather awful and a fair bit inane.

Whereas the general consesus among the Night Elves was that the Blood Elves had to be steered away from fel in order to avoid turning into monsters (which in the end some of them did) it doesn’t justify, or even explain what they ended up doing when they landed on the Ghostlands.

They were overly aggressive and immediately hostile with a faction whom they previously held friendly relations with.

Sending spies, masquerading their schemes for false diplomacy, attempting assassinations, occupying sanctuaries, and yes, they also did sabotage sanctums:

Around the West Sanctum, Darnassian Scouts were working together with the dwarf Prospector Anvilward who, playing the role of an envoy of Ironforge, befriended the blood elves, notably Ley-Keeper Caidanis. He gathered information such as detailed maps of different strategic buildings in Eversong Woods or a diagram of an arcane sanctum sketched in good detail, accompanied with numerous notes, and delivered the secret documents to the night elves, who sabotaged a sanctum.

Source: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sentinel_spies#History
(Though I see Savotar has posted a fair bit of those too)

In short, these overzealous Sentinels were borderline warmongers with unclear malicious goals and vague motives.

The whole thing stinks of Fandral.

What ever Savotar :man_facepalming: I’m done wasting my time on you. On the 1 hand we have what you THINK happened and on the other we have WHAT actually happened. The chip on your shoulder “my guy” is ridiculous :joy:

Anybody reading this thread can make up their own minds but all you have given as proof is what could have happened, “suspicions” like that constitutes proof :man_facepalming:

As i have said numerous times but you can’t get past your Horde victimhood complex this isn’t about Horde/Alliance bias…it’s as simple as what is the Lore and what isn’t. This is the Story Forum not some roleplaying exercise on Argent Dawn.

If the lore said the NE’s sabotaged the sanctum when we went to help fix it and that the dwarf was there to observe it and report back, then fine BUT thats not what happened.

The sanctum malfunctioned due to overuse by the BE’s
The Dwarf was there to observe said malfunction.
He recorded said malfunction in documents for the NE’s.

NOTHING else happened :man_shrugging:.

Don’t know what is so hard to understand about that. This isn’t “fill in the gaps with what you like” exercise in Lore delivery by Blizzard game designers here.

Gamepedia just like Wowpedia is community edited just like Wikipedia. That description is someone’s interpretation of what happened but NOT actually what happened. The NE’s never directly or indirectly sabotaged any BE sanctums.

Now did they do loads of other shady and stupid stuff in the Ghostlands YES but let’s stop adding crimes they did not commit.

1 Like