You can’t compare them, they’re totally different types of content.
Also: you’ve said “it shouldn’t be about skill, but effort” several times now. What’s your premise for this? Why?
“Effort and not skill” and “dedication over time rather than player input” seems to me you’re arguing for a daily “login mobile game” than an MMORPG.
Of course skill should matter, otherwise what the heck is the point of even doing content at all?
I said it shouldnt be only about skill. Skill is just one factor.
Skill is supposed to be the only factor in pvp
Not in rpg game. Thats what many people forget. That you all play RPG game. RPGs are not only about mechanical skill. RPGs utilizie many different type skill sets. Time commitment is also factor and social difficulty too.
You are also forgeting you are playing an MMO with competitive mode in pvp
ah how the turntables…
didn’t see any outrage about pvpers having to pve to keep up for years, only “suck it up, buttercup, ur playing an MMO :)”
edit: to be clear, I’m referring to none of the PvE players standing up for how PvPers had to raid full time and spam M+ to do anything in PvP, instead they just say “suck it up, ur playing an MMO”
MMORpG not MMO. That RPG part is important in that word.
We did. There was tons of complaons about it in BFA.
As is important as MMO
People cried about farming honour for blood of the enemy essence in pvp. Especially when Blizzard shut down the compstomp brawl in late season 4
Yeah it is actually, you can snatch neck, ring, belt, boots, offhand, even 1h is just 900 conq…
From all the mythics I’ve done in the past (got to 2 CE’s and couple close ones) - gear doesn’t matter that much as you think it does. More often people doesn’t do mechanics, which causes wipes.
Explain me, why mythic alt runs 6 months into patch almost never wipes in clearing mythics (even though these alts are worse gear than mains when these were progressing)? Because gear only matters in very rare occasions, but even then it’s a matter of early deaths, not switching targets, etc. So chill, your 215 is enough to progress mythic (esp if it’s optimized via siming).
Seems pretty fair to me that people who participate and excel in several different types of gameplay get to gear up faster
yes but why should effort take precedence over skill? What’s your premise?
As far as i’ve seen the game awards both
In PvE skill determines the ceiling of your gear (you do higher content you get higher gear) and effort determines the amount of gear you get (you do more raids and more M+ more chances at loot).
In PvP your skill determines your gear ceiling (higher bracket = higher ilevel) and your effort equals how much “patch up” gear you have by way of unrated gear and also how many conquest parts you have. Also it’s difficult to maintain rating if you sink next to no time into PvP at all.
What’s wrong with this? As far as I see both effort and skill are rewarded. You seem to be arguing the balance is wonky and too in favour of skill? For PvP that makes sense as PvP is a skill-centred playstyle. In PvE i’d argue it isn’t the case at all, and actually you’ll see more benefit from gearing in M+ for example by simply doing more keys total than trying to do a few high keys.
I’m looking to enter on good faith here, how would you address/change this so effort is more rewarded?
We also need to qualify what you mean by “effort” as it’s a vague term. You could argue I put a lot of time into the game doing world quests and every single questline and exploring every zone, does this mean i deserve the best gear? Please elaborate on what you mean by “effort” so I know where you’re coming from.
Also what is “social difficulty”? Organising a guild? Is that really an indication of player effort though? I mean let’s say i’m trying to get 20 guys into a raid, whether they can make it or not does not depend upon me entirely, it’s whether them and their RLs can meet my requirements, and their ability to flex that. Difficulty doesn’t come into it in my mind, they either will, or they won’t. It’s not something I can “work at”. I either recruit people who can make the times I and my friends can, or I don’t. Whilst it may be time consuming to get a roster like this, i wouldn’t call it difficulty. To say it is is to say that’s there is “social difficulty” in setting up an arena comp, because you have to sift through several people (sometimes on a weekly basis if you lack regular partners) figure out when they can play, when they can’t, and really communicate with them closely to secure wins before, during and after games. Communication needs to be done “on the fly” not just “before the pull” so if we’re going to accept social difficulty IS a thing when it comes to arranging players for content, then rated PvP is in no way discounted from the list and i’d wager in some arenas (like rated BGs) actually more demanding than raids. In a RBg you need ongoing comms all the time as the match swings around and to call outplayers to respond and they need to communicate back so everyone knows what’s going on. There isn’t nearly this amount of constant communication during a boss pull in a raid, most of it happens before and after pulls and then when calling for defensives etc- because the asusmption is people will know the tac and won’t need it explaining during a fight.
In PvP “the tac” changes all the time depending on the enemy so you need to keep updating people as to what is going on. Enemy team going around in a huge zerg in AB? You need to call for swift movements behind the zerg so your node control remains on top of theirs even if they keep taking nodes with the zerg, and to encourage their zerg to split up. One enemy at node x? Call for a stealth cap and harass. Need a healer swapped in for an inc? you need to call it.
You get the idea.
Really this again? You have no idea what is being forced to content. Like playing bfa pvp in season 4.
There are few thousands players over 2100 not issue at all. If your friend is good he deserve 226 gear for it. End of story.
The problem he wasnt a pvp player.he just carried by his friend at 10 vs 10 now he doesnt do pvp just farming honor and conquest at other pvp section to not to lose pvp rating.It is not require skill to be 2100 rating.it just require time and finding a team to carry you . The key word is “fun” we dont likr to pvp as pvp players doesnt like to play dungeons . And i wont farm pvp as i didnt get blood of enemy at bfa whole season. I declare that i dont like pvp in wow literally that sucks to run after a man running behind pillars or getting one shot by druids convoke in 3vs3 . Believe me if i want to pvp i wouldnt playing wow. I am only here for nice and smooth pve content
Carried in 10v10 so you mean he played rbgs to 2100? Its lot of effort. In my opinion you are lying but lets pretend you not…
Even if he was carried whats your problem ? Boosting in pve is so big its disgusting and you think its problem that his friends help him get 2100?
yes this is very wrong
pvp and pve gear should be completly 100 % separated - and scale - for example 226 pvp gear shoudl scale to 184 in pve and so pve 226 gear should scale to 184 in pvp .
then nobody would be forced to do anything
İf a player doesnt work pvp whole day for a week , couldnt they reach that point specially when good pvp players were farming for pvp rating at start of expansion ?
This thread xD
Another day in Neverhappenedland